Jump to content

So, Why Do New Players Quit?


467 replies to this topic

#341 K O Z A K

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,322 posts
  • LocationTrue North Strong and Free

Posted 19 August 2018 - 07:32 AM

View PostPeppaPig, on 19 August 2018 - 05:19 AM, said:

Why do new players leave FW . . . probably because some units still insist on the "win at all costs" approach or "we are winning and could finish the match comfortably, but lets farm the c@pzoids out of the pugs".

No matter what coding changes are implemented, what bias or breakdown of pre-made drop sizes are put in place, the final responsibility falls to the players themselves. Looking in the prior postings, there is an experienced player stating they hate newbies in their drop and yet earlier on, the same person is moaning about lack of new blood . . . the perfect example of what is really wrong with MWO at the moment, players not willing to look at their own play styles and the impact it has on the community as a whole. (No I am not naming names, go have a look through the 17 pages of posting for yourself).

The current batch of events has been a great way to entice new players into FW seal clubbing, farming or helping them "git gud" isn't the best way to keep them and make what ought to be the backbone of MWO, work.


Wait... so win by objective = bad, win by 48 kills = bad ?.........do you expect people to group up and intentionally lose to you?

#342 Mochyn Pupur

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Patron Saint
  • The Patron Saint
  • 521 posts
  • LocationDerby, England

Posted 19 August 2018 - 09:49 AM

View PostHazeclaw, on 19 August 2018 - 07:32 AM, said:

Wait... so win by objective = bad, win by 48 kills = bad ?.........do you expect people to group up and intentionally lose to you?


Nothing of the sort - however, your attitude is one that mirrors what is worst about the mode. Win by objective = Great; avoid objective and farm the living daylights out of folk dipping their feet into FW for the first time = Bad. If you can't work that one out, I guess you are one of those determined to kill FW off . . . . who knows?

#343 Horseman

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Mercenary
  • The Mercenary
  • 4,701 posts
  • LocationPoland

Posted 19 August 2018 - 10:10 AM

View PostPeppaPig, on 19 August 2018 - 05:19 AM, said:

No matter what coding changes are implemented, what bias or breakdown of pre-made drop sizes are put in place, the final responsibility falls to the players themselves.
Including the newbie.

Quote

Looking in the prior postings, there is an experienced player stating they hate newbies in their drop and yet earlier on, the same person is moaning about lack of new blood . . . the perfect example of what is really wrong with MWO at the moment, players not willing to look at their own play styles and the impact it has on the community as a whole.
There's more than one type of newbies. Some will try to cooperate with their team and make an effort to improve, others will flat out refuse to communicate and cooperate with their team.

Quote

The current batch of events has been a great way to entice new players into FW seal clubbing, farming or helping them "git gud" isn't the best way to keep them and make what ought to be the backbone of MWO, work.
Helping them "git gud" starting with comms and mech builds is the only way to keep them.

#344 K O Z A K

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,322 posts
  • LocationTrue North Strong and Free

Posted 19 August 2018 - 11:51 AM

View PostPeppaPig, on 19 August 2018 - 09:49 AM, said:


Nothing of the sort - however, your attitude is one that mirrors what is worst about the mode. Win by objective = Great; avoid objective and farm the living daylights out of folk dipping their feet into FW for the first time = Bad. If you can't work that one out, I guess you are one of those determined to kill FW off . . . . who knows?


You got me, I wake up every morning and think of nothing other than new ways to take over the world destroy FP.

What do you mean by "win at all costs" if not finishing by objective then? Groups of good players get s**t no matter what they do: finish by objective "You cheap objective rushers, couldn't fight us like real mehwarriors", fight to the last mech "You cheap spawn campers", meanwhile dropping solo you're practically yelling at pugs to regroup and move away from the drop zone so as to prevent spawn farming and they will still setup 1 square from the dropzone

#345 MischiefSC

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Benefactor
  • The Benefactor
  • 16,697 posts

Posted 19 August 2018 - 02:08 PM

If the other team doesnt get more than a few hundred meters from their spawn and makes me walk 2km just to fight them and then co.plains because I then walked another 200m to be firing range from their DZ I struggle to get empathetic. Am I supposed to return to the 50 year line and just sit for 10 min waiting for them to get the courage to move up?

Most of them functionally camp their DZ from the first or second drop. It's not uncommon on siege for pug teams to refuse to come in the gates to fight - they want the defenders to come out.

This idea seems to be that anyone who isn't window-licking terrible at the game is just trying to bully people who literally play like abject cowards in a computer game about big stompy robbits. We've spent years trying to help people not be terrible. I'm not even say "be good". I'm just saying not absolutely terrible. This is met with firm resistance and the claim that everyone needs to just lower the standards more so that no matter how absolutely cowardly, timid, incompetent and terrible someone is, no matter how much they flat out refuse to take even the tiniest step toward improvement, they should still have decent odds of winning.

No. Go play a SP game with godmode on. This game is PvP. FW has slightly higher standards than total potato land if only because being incompetent means dying 4 times instead of one. That's not unreasonable.

#346 Horseman

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Mercenary
  • The Mercenary
  • 4,701 posts
  • LocationPoland

Posted 19 August 2018 - 02:23 PM

Well said, Mischief.

#347 S O L A I S

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Giant Helper
  • 390 posts
  • LocationFlorida

Posted 19 August 2018 - 03:01 PM

View PostPeppaPig, on 19 August 2018 - 05:19 AM, said:

Why do new players leave FW . . . probably because some units still insist on the "win at all costs" approach or "we are winning and could finish the match comfortably, but lets farm the c@pzoids out of the pugs".

No matter what coding changes are implemented, what bias or breakdown of pre-made drop sizes are put in place, the final responsibility falls to the players themselves. Looking in the prior postings, there is an experienced player stating they hate newbies in their drop and yet earlier on, the same person is moaning about lack of new blood . . . the perfect example of what is really wrong with MWO at the moment, players not willing to look at their own play styles and the impact it has on the community as a whole. (No I am not naming names, go have a look through the 17 pages of posting for yourself).

The current batch of events has been a great way to entice new players into FW seal clubbing, farming or helping them "git gud" isn't the best way to keep them and make what ought to be the backbone of MWO, work.


That's the thing though...in a niche mode in a niche game it is about what kind of new blood you want to attract.

Be great if PGI did some stuff to win over some of the MRBC or other league players. Because that is what CW wants is people who want to play the mode as a team.

Your only hope as a pug is to fill in a spot on a good team, not be dropped into pug on unit or even pug on pug frenzy where you won't learn anything.

Players also are responsible and reach out, make videos, stream, offer to train.....

You not liking 'playstyle' or farming doesn't change the result if you are not in a team or willing to try and be part of a team, you are going to fail.

#348 Mochyn Pupur

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Patron Saint
  • The Patron Saint
  • 521 posts
  • LocationDerby, England

Posted 19 August 2018 - 03:18 PM

View PostS O L A I S, on 19 August 2018 - 03:01 PM, said:


That's the thing though...in a niche mode in a niche game it is about what kind of new blood you want to attract.

Be great if PGI did some stuff to win over some of the MRBC or other league players. Because that is what CW wants is people who want to play the mode as a team.

Your only hope as a pug is to fill in a spot on a good team, not be dropped into pug on unit or even pug on pug frenzy where you won't learn anything.

Players also are responsible and reach out, make videos, stream, offer to train.....

You not liking 'playstyle' or farming doesn't change the result if you are not in a team or willing to try and be part of a team, you are going to fail.


For the main part, I actually agree with what you are saying with a minor change . . . Responsible players reach out, make videos, stream, offer to train . . . . . .

As far as play style goes, I've played QP, CW, FP . . etc . . . . for years. Yes I know I'm not great but I'm a solid team player and was in a unit from about the 2nd week of getting MWO up and running, 3 - 4 years ago. My concern is as you said, how do we attract players to a specific role, but, give them the opportunity to learn FP rather than leave after each event when they are just reward hunting (as they would do in any kind of event, nothing unusual there).

All I see is a great opportunity to get FP back into a healthy place again slipping away. The only people able to grab that opportunity are those who want it to grow. Taking the easy rewards now can only make things so much more difficult after this kind of event when folk drop back to QP and the matches dry up again in FP.

Too many diehard FP pilots have dropped out of MWO already; as a community do you want MWO to haemorrhage even more?

#349 Fuerchtenichts

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Clan Exemplar
  • Clan Exemplar
  • 280 posts
  • LocationGermany

Posted 20 August 2018 - 01:38 AM

View PostMischiefSC, on 19 August 2018 - 02:08 PM, said:

We've spent years trying to help people not be terrible. I'm not even say "be good". I'm just saying not absolutely terrible. This is met with firm resistance and the claim that everyone needs to just lower the standards more so that no matter how absolutely cowardly, timid, incompetent and terrible someone is, no matter how much they flat out refuse to take even the tiniest step toward improvement, they should still have decent odds of winning.

No. Go play a SP game with godmode on. This game is PvP. FW has slightly higher standards than total potato land if only because being incompetent means dying 4 times instead of one. That's not unreasonable.


You have truely come a long way to end here... Posted Image

#350 KursedVixen

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Wolf
  • The Wolf
  • 2,880 posts
  • LocationLook at my Arctic Wolf. Closer... Closer...

Posted 20 August 2018 - 01:52 AM

View PostAsym, on 26 January 2018 - 07:42 PM, said:

I've retired and I'm here less than a year because PGI stole the mech's I purchased lethality and agility and then, went on to ruin anything that was left. Spent real money and 2 months later, ZAP, playing with crap....

Terrible grind with terrible game play (especially FP)..... Hopless because PGI does not care and does not communicate.
this, along with extremely buggy game the game prety much hijacks my computer and ontop of that crashes like 2 out of 10 times...

and don't complain to me about not being a 'team player' i just died protecting an annihilator from two lighter mechs..... Quick play is full of too many people not willing to work as a team.

the recent events that alienate half of the playerbase really does not help

along with the aforementioned lack of a good tutorial.


I think there are multiple factors to why new players quit... these just being a few of the many that lead up to it.

Edited by KursedVixen, 20 August 2018 - 02:00 AM.


#351 Soulless86

    Member

  • PipPip
  • Bad Company
  • 30 posts

Posted 20 August 2018 - 09:03 PM

The games grind becomes too much since it's no longer fun, the games modes mostly suck, that map selection is sub par. Just did a FP skirmish match never been more bored in this game. Ever.

Edited by Soulless86, 20 August 2018 - 09:09 PM.


#352 Sneaky Ohgoorchik

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Survivor
  • 147 posts

Posted 23 August 2018 - 06:25 AM

Too much grind. No day guests. Well, usually.

#353 MW Waldorf Statler

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Legendary Founder
  • Legendary Founder
  • 9,457 posts
  • LocationGermany/Berlin

Posted 24 August 2018 - 11:44 PM

-Mechs you have to buy - not like in other games with experience
-For every Mech bought, you need a mechbay, which is rarely given to you, or can not fight for FPs that are not meant for newbies. Usually you have to buy them for real money.

-Factions and loyalty or RPG elements are useless, are still punished at events or are simply not available.
by weapon variety and Mechlab High comprehension hurdles (which other game has at least reachable weapon parameters?)

-Content like Maps comes at most once a year

-no Coop or Pve elements as in other games (War thunder, Star Conflict, Robocraft)-only Sharktank Playing to train his skills or when no time or Joy for great PvP, oh ..today only Bad groups or to many good Skilled players -here play with it or leave(how many time im only play missions in Star Conflict
-Nothing Marketing or Interest to the own work from the most Devs...(seeing MW5 ...good enough thats in a Year a Gamemagazine writing a Little Article -the MW5 HP from PGI is more dead as Living since 2107

-Buy a Mech and its nerfed in the Groud with the next Patch...each month you must learn new Tactics or other Weaponconfigs

-No Balanced IS7IS Clan/Clan FP

PGIs Devs most use Instagramm or Twitter with hers favorited Groups (NGNG) for contact and ignored his own Forum most (only Paul Innoye is seeing many in forumPosted Image and let seeing interest)

Edited by Old MW4 Ranger, 25 August 2018 - 01:12 AM.


#354 Horseman

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Mercenary
  • The Mercenary
  • 4,701 posts
  • LocationPoland

Posted 25 August 2018 - 02:52 AM

Quote

Usually you have to buy them for real money.
At the rate events have been going for past year or so, you can normally get about 500-1000 MC a month from the events alone. If you're not wasting them on cosmetics, you can stockpile them from several events and buy a bunch of mechbays on sale (which are also more frequent, a few years back there used to be only 1 or 2 a year, while now it's every other month at least).

#355 Aylward

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Knight Errant
  • Knight Errant
  • 606 posts
  • Google+: Link
  • Twitter: Link
  • LocationCleveland, OH

Posted 25 August 2018 - 04:59 AM

View PostMischiefSC, on 30 June 2018 - 03:03 PM, said:

At one time like a year ago there were tons of healthy, growing units. In fact it was a complaint that some units were too big - PGI added punishing recruitment costs to try and force big units to slim down. This backfired and started a long downward slide.

However we had thousands of players in huge active units constantly finding, helping and training new players.

Then PGI decided to make factions irrelevant in FW with the 1 Bukkit change. That was the bullet in the head for all these units and they left. Now the whole player created ecology we created and maintained to help people is dead because PGI actively destroyed everything that made those people play.

It's unfortunate. We created a good process to help the NPE but people in small groups complained that groups who were better at it "were not fair" and big groups got punished and encouraged not to help new players and let the people who were not actually doing it do it I guess? That failes. Then as the population started to decline because of bad choices PGI made they "fixed" that by destroying the only reason those NPE creating teams played.

It's not that PGI shot the population and NPE in the foot it's that they pinned it down, emptied a clip in its head, reloaded and did it again for good measure. Now they just want to pretend none of it happened or even existed and oh gosh no idea it's just the cycle of game populations I guess.



AMEN....

#356 MW Waldorf Statler

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Legendary Founder
  • Legendary Founder
  • 9,457 posts
  • LocationGermany/Berlin

Posted 25 August 2018 - 05:55 AM

and all the Faults like today ..after a FP Special event thats only plays Liao/Davion when not switch the Fcation ...now the FP is Broken ...to many Problems ...fails and Faults by each event , Patch or bring a Mode ,Map, Animation or Idea in ...nothing Quality managment

View PostHorseman, on 25 August 2018 - 02:52 AM, said:

At the rate events have been going for past year or so, you can normally get about 500-1000 MC a month from the events alone. If you're not wasting them on cosmetics, you can stockpile them from several events and buy a bunch of mechbays on sale (which are also more frequent, a few years back there used to be only 1 or 2 a year, while now it's every other month at least).

yes ... when you will play the Events Posted Image most events not really Days to play with Fun..or have time to fullfill all Goals over all days ...problem is , the events to long ...better short events with 2-3 Goals and only aday or two

Edited by Old MW4 Ranger, 25 August 2018 - 09:41 AM.


#357 Bishop Six

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Pharaoh
  • The Pharaoh
  • 806 posts
  • LocationGermany

Posted 26 August 2018 - 12:48 AM

View PostOld MW4 Ranger, on 25 August 2018 - 05:55 AM, said:

and all the Faults like today ..after a FP Special event thats only plays Liao/Davion when not switch the Fcation ...now the FP is Broken ...to many Problems ...fails and Faults by each event , Patch or bring a Mode ,Map, Animation or Idea in ...nothing Quality managment


yes ... when you will play the Events Posted Image most events not really Days to play with Fun..or have time to fullfill all Goals over all days ...problem is , the events to long ...better short events with 2-3 Goals and only aday or two


And again complaining every day...Old Ranger honest question:

Why are you here?

You are not playing, but commenting every day in a negative way?

Live with it, your glorious MWLL is gone. I have the feeling you are only here for bringing negative attitude. You are not interest in MWO, but you keep posting rants and complaints, thats some kind of ridiculous.

#358 B0oN

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,870 posts

Posted 26 August 2018 - 01:49 AM

View PostPeppaPig, on 19 August 2018 - 03:18 PM, said:


For the main part, I actually agree with what you are saying with a minor change . . . Responsible players reach out, make videos, stream, offer to train . . . . . .

As far as play style goes, I've played QP, CW, FP . . etc . . . . for years. Yes I know I'm not great but I'm a solid team player and was in a unit from about the 2nd week of getting MWO up and running, 3 - 4 years ago. My concern is as you said, how do we attract players to a specific role, but, give them the opportunity to learn FP rather than leave after each event when they are just reward hunting (as they would do in any kind of event, nothing unusual there).

All I see is a great opportunity to get FP back into a healthy place again slipping away. The only people able to grab that opportunity are those who want it to grow. Taking the easy rewards now can only make things so much more difficult after this kind of event when folk drop back to QP and the matches dry up again in FP.

Too many diehard FP pilots have dropped out of MWO already; as a community do you want MWO to haemorrhage even more?


All I´m saying is this : people mostly want to be minimally viable and have barely any aspiration in them at all, barring them from in-game greatness .
It´s not the surroundings, it´s the troglodytes refusing to ask questions and heed those answers given because they might feel that those answers hurt their precious little feelings .
Bad, inflexible and ignorant players try to create a FW in which even they can Rambo successfully while having a skillceiling as high as my toenails and an insight into the workings of the game as good as a drunk mole 11 feet deep in the ground.
These notions and intentions of such "players" should be barred from defiling a quite nice gamemode by some proper harsh gating-barrier .

#359 MW Waldorf Statler

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Legendary Founder
  • Legendary Founder
  • 9,457 posts
  • LocationGermany/Berlin

Posted 26 August 2018 - 04:23 AM

View PostBishop Six, on 26 August 2018 - 12:48 AM, said:


And again complaining every day...Old Ranger honest question:

Why are you here?

You are not playing, but commenting every day in a negative way?

Live with it, your glorious MWLL is gone. I have the feeling you are only here for bringing negative attitude. You are not interest in MWO, but you keep posting rants and complaints, thats some kind of ridiculous.

Yes PGI has his own Holy Bishop Posted Image you bring all the Positives and positives bring nothing evolution, and who White it must give black ...You one of the Last true white Knights Posted Image ...im lay only all 4-6 Months ,its enough for this beta Game.And no ..MWLL was not my Game ...Keyboard to overloaded and the Configuration a Hell and with Aerospacefighters Mechs only Canonfooder ..my Game war MW4 in League Play for over ten Years

Edited by Old MW4 Ranger, 26 August 2018 - 04:27 AM.


#360 Chados

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,948 posts
  • LocationSomewhere...over the Rainbow

Posted 26 August 2018 - 05:00 AM

FW isn’t fun in its current implementation. That’s why noobs leave.

Dropped a couple FW matches during the event and it’s just as soul-crushing as it’s always been. Horrible siege-mode maps full of chokepoints, established teams seal-clubbing pugs, lots of salt, lots of “git gud scrub.” New players don’t have the skill set. Most experienced MWO players don’t have the skill set. I find FW mostly is about getting power-focused down by seven enemy mechs spawn camping your drop zone as soon as your drop into a match, four times. **** that.

How do you save FW? You’re not going to want to hear it.

Cooperative PvE.

Co-op PvE, with a focus on lore and story-driven campaigns, giving the team something to fight for. Player control over the universe. Back in the day, my intro to Mechwarrior was a game called Multiplayer Online Battletech, on the GEnie Online service. It was EGA, based on the original Mechwarrior game from 1989. I played in 1991-93. It was co-op PvE only. The year was 3025, at the end of the Third Succession War. The game had the original Battlemaster, Rifleman, Warhammer, Locust, Shadow Hawk, Phoenix Hawk, and Jenner, as I recall. You started as a pilot in one of the great houses, in the Mechwarrior academy learning how to pilot light mechs. Once you qualified, you could run in open matches as part of a House military unit. The hierarchy were established players and I can’t remember how one became the head of the house. I do remember that I was in the Federated Suns when I qualified as a light pilot, and got recruited by the commander of the Ninth Benjamin Regulars to defect to Kurita and join the Dragon. I qualified as a medium pilot and then a heavy pilot in the 9th and became a lance leader, promoted by my Commander. We fought Davion in the Draconis March, and dropped as a unit into 4v4 PvE matches, with planet control by faction determined by number of victories in 24 hours.

Role play was common, and it was custom to greet other Kuritans in drop lobbies with “konnichi-wa,” and we used Japanese words for yes (hai) and no (iyeh). When the head of the house actually would drop with us, we respectfully called him “tono,” Lord. The opposition dropped from the same lobby and during fights for a planet there was much trash talk back and forth. Davions were pretentious, hewing to old British custom and language like we did Japanese. I later went with my Commander to the Rasalhague district when he became Warlord, and worked for his girlfriend for awhile, then tried the mercenary life (sucked) before taking over the 17th Rasalhague Regulars as Commander. Steiners were very Teutonic, very ego driven players who considered themselves elites and made sure you knew it. We had message boards on GEnie where the House leadership engaged in politics both inside and outside the faction, and as a lance leader and later company commander I had to post action reports. I moved lance and company to worlds in accord with the Warlord’s strategic directives. It was a lot of fun.

Current FW is essentially team deathmatch x10, only instead of the usual quick drop craziness it’s much more organized and serious. Oddly, the same team that will roll you 48-29 in FW will be a team you can whip 12-6 in a QP match on the same map and why that is I have no clue. I think it has to do with the way FW works, you reinforce at different rates, it’s harder to reverse a deficit, you have mix tech as a team can drop both Clan and IS mechs, and QP doesn’t have spawn camping. I note that in games like War Thunder they prevent spawn camping with mechanics that prevent a team from entering the enemy spawn. Sometimes that works, and overall, WT map design is better as well. In Armored Warfare, My.Com gets around the problems with a viable PvE mode that is more popular than their PvP modes. World of Warcraft’s PvE modes are what keeps that game relevant and keeps players in the game and returning to the game despite a long series of changes and nerfs that are as bad as PGI’s worst efforts.

If you all want FW to prosper, PGI is going to need to get some AI that’s workable and get some PvE experience into the game. It’s going to need some lore and story and a reason to fight, and a hook to keep players that aren’t up for a harder deathmatch in the fight. That simple.

Edited by Chados, 26 August 2018 - 05:20 AM.






1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users