415 replies to this topic

[PocketYoda]

Sigmar Sich, on 02 March 2018 - 08:46 PM, said:

On the bright side, this could mean population problem is not dire enough to reduce QP team size..

It will be in april

[Belkor]

Scout Derek, on 02 March 2018 - 09:37 PM, said:

so If I'm reading you right;

you like matches with 12-0 stomps, and you'd love to be in 24-0 stomps now. Is that it?

As opposed to 8-0 stomps? Not sure I see the point here. Remember, each bad teammate would have a much greater impact in an 8v8 match. Just 1 more bad teammate can result in a loss under the 8v8 system assuming everyone else is equally skilled. There will be as many 8-0 stomps in an 8v8 as there are 12-0 stomps in a 12v12 system. I guarantee it. We already had these lame / boring 8v8s during MWO beta.

[Mystere]

Kageru Ikazuchi, on 02 March 2018 - 07:06 PM, said:

8V8 Is "dead In The Water"

Good!

[Mcgral18]

Belkor, on 02 March 2018 - 10:13 PM, said:

As opposed to 8-0 stomps? Not sure I see the point here. Remember, each bad teammate would have a much greater impact in an 8v8 match. Just 1 more bad teammate can result in a loss under the 8v8 system assuming everyone else is equally skilled. There will be as many 8-0 stomps in an 8v8 as there are 12-0 stomps in a 12v12 system. I guarantee it. We already had these lame / boring 8v8s during MWO beta.

I can reliably shoot 4 robots to death, given reasonable circumstances
I cannot reliably kill 6, especially on the higher end of tonnages because of the increased armor

Heat capacity and ammo doesn't allow for it



You fail to realize, while each Potato on your team does have a larger percentage, you don't have to shoot as many targets
That, along with the fact that there are a third fewer guns means those Potatos may die slower (no guarantee, firing lanes being what they are)



It's easier to carry the lower the numbers get
Snowballing only gets worse the higher numbers get



What don't you understand about that?

[dario03]

Variant1, on 02 March 2018 - 08:56 PM, said:

down with 8v8!

long live 12v12! hail to the king baby!

however it would make sense for 8v8 if the pop is low, for now dont think it warants it just yet

The pop does sometimes get that low for group queue around Oceanic play times.

[Juju Shinobi]

People complain about bad matchmaker and 12-0 stomps, 8v8 would alleviate that slightly due to needing to match lesser players and 1 player has more impact on the game in 8v8 vs 12v12. There is really no reason not to go 8v8 especially with how much the population is dwindling

[Xetelian]

I'm against 8v8.

I have a feeling that this is something like engine desync, where it sounds like a good idea for various reasons but will ultimately be seen as a failure and have consequences that drive more people away.

As I've said before, my main concern is how effective top tier players are going to be with a smaller amount of people in a game. As I see it, if your team has a couple LRM assaults on Crimson, you can still win with the other Assault and the rest of the team. In 8v8 2 LRM assaults can crush any chance that you will win.

As it is now, 1 good player doesn't guarantee a win. As Mcgral pointed out, he can easily take down 4 guys. In 12 v 12 that still leaves 8 people to take him down, in 8v8 that is half your team.



Anyone who is good enough to take out 4-5 people by themselves is going to see an increase in their win/loss ratio but everyone who can't (the majority of the player base) is going to lose more often when going up against stellar players.


The burden of a disconnect will also be seriously painful with fewer players. I see a disconnect every couple matches and it is extremely common for whatever reason.



Meta builds on god tier mechs will also be felt a lot more and people bringing mixed load-outs will suffer much more for the same reason a good player is going to shine brighter and a less capable person is going to see more losses. Carrying a 5 small laser 400 STD engine banshee is going to get a lot harder.

[Mystere]

Juju Shinobi, on 02 March 2018 - 10:36 PM, said:

People complain about bad matchmaker and 12-0 stomps, 8v8 would alleviate that slightly due to needing to match lesser players and 1 player has more impact on the game in 8v8 vs 12v12. There is really no reason not to go 8v8 especially with how much the population is dwindling

If PGi's and players' solution to the dwindling population is to reduce drop sizes, then this game has even more serious problems than it already has.

[Mcgral18]

Mystere, on 02 March 2018 - 10:57 PM, said:

If PGi's and players' solution to the dwindling population is to reduce drop sizes, then this game has even more serious problems than it already has.

Expanding player options is a bad thing?

Reducing player options has severely reduced my playtime
Sod off Escort and Incursion. I would rather not play MWO at all, than to play those cancerous modes

Give us tick boxes for modes, and 12v12 or 8v8
Options for everyone to enjoy!

[ramp4ge]

Why would they have to spend resources developing something that was already status quo in the game for years?

That doesn't make any sense. Just undo the changes you made to make it 12v12. No dev time needed...

[Mystere]

Mcgral18, on 02 March 2018 - 11:01 PM, said:

Expanding player options is a bad thing?

Junking 12v12 in favor of 8v8 -- as per the OP and the post I was responding to -- is "expanding player options"?

Mcgral18, on 02 March 2018 - 11:01 PM, said:

Reducing player options has severely reduced my playtime

And boredom due to game stagnation has severely reduce mine. <shrugs>

Edited by Mystere, 02 March 2018 - 11:05 PM.

[Mcgral18]

Mystere, on 02 March 2018 - 11:02 PM, said:

Junking 12v12 in favor of 8v8 is "expanding player options"?

Who says we can't have both?

[PocketYoda]

Agreed 8v8 and 12v12, no choices in gaming anymore...

[Mystere]

Mcgral18, on 02 March 2018 - 11:03 PM, said:

Who says we can't have both?

This poll?

Note the exclusive OR condition.

[Scout Derek]

Mystere, on 02 March 2018 - 11:14 PM, said:

This poll?

Note the exclusive OR condition.

I mean,

I made it as simple as possible.

But yeah sure we can add a third poll option and split the votes up even further.

[Mystere]

QueenBlade, on 02 March 2018 - 08:32 PM, said:

wait wait wait...

MWOWC is 8v8, but Quick Play, Group Play, and Faction Play are all 12 v 12...

You have more teams playing in the MWOWC than you do in Faction Play, but 8v8 is dead in the water?

Seems like once again PGI doesn't have the best interests for their player base.

I have one word: logistics.

[Belkor]

Mcgral18, on 02 March 2018 - 10:19 PM, said:

I can reliably shoot 4 robots to death, given reasonable circumstances
I cannot reliably kill 6, especially on the higher end of tonnages because of the increased armor

Heat capacity and ammo doesn't allow for it



You fail to realize, while each Potato on your team does have a larger percentage, you don't have to shoot as many targets
That, along with the fact that there are a third fewer guns means those Potatos may die slower (no guarantee, firing lanes being what they are)



It's easier to carry the lower the numbers get
Snowballing only gets worse the higher numbers get



What don't you understand about that?

Here is what you don't understand. Everything you said can be flipped around. The enemy team gets less targets, their potatoes die slower, they get a player that can do what you do. Let's make an scenario of evenly skilled team except you get +1 potato teammate. I see in Jarl's list that you're a very high performer but can you reliably outperform prtNspz and win with +1 potato teammate (essentially a 7v8 instead of 11v12)? Losing just 1 teammate in a 12v12 feels bad enough but when you lose a bad teammate in 8v8s, it will decide the match to a much greater degree. I've already seen many of these top competitive players solo carry via sheer damage / kills in a 12v12 match. Why not rise up to the occasion like they did?

Your remark on snowballing getting worse with higher numbers is also debatable under the same premise. You get +1 bad teammate. It becomes a 7v8. Assuming everyone is equally skilled, game snowballs harder with only +1 bad teammate than a 11v12 match.

I currently enjoy going for the maximum impact I can have in a 12v12 match regardless of heat capacity, ammo, increased armor limitations. I don't feel the need to join a smaller pool of 8v8s to solo carry a match. For others, I'm also skeptical if the ability of solo carrying matches equates to the maximum fun factor for them. The fun factor is crucial to playerbase numbers.

Edited by Belkor, 02 March 2018 - 11:30 PM.

[Khobai]

we had 8v8 before we ever had 12v12.

so its not like its theoretical. 8v8 had less snowballing. thats just a fact.

[Mcgral18]

Belkor, on 02 March 2018 - 11:18 PM, said:

Here is what you don't understand. Everything you said can be flipped around. The enemy team gets less targets, their potatoes die slower, they get a player that can do what you do. Let's make an scenario of evenly skilled team except you get +1 potato teammate. I see in Jarl's list that you're a very high performer but can you reliably outperform prtNspz and win with +1 potato teammate (essentially a 7v8 instead of 11v12)? Losing just 1 teammate in a 12v12 feels bad enough but when you lose a bad teammate in 8v8s, it will decide the match to a much greater degree. I've already seen many of these EMP guys do so much damage / kills in a 12v12 match that they are essentially solo carrying these matches. Why not rise up to the occasion like they did?

Your remark on snowballing getting worse with higher numbers is also debatable under the same premise. You get +1 bad teammate. It becomes a 7v8. Assuming everyone is equally skilled, you lose with only +1 bad teammate.

I currently enjoy going for the maximum impact I can have in a 12v12 match regardless of heat capacity, ammo, increased armor limitations. I don't feel the need to join a smaller pool of 8v8s to solo carry a match. For others, I'm also questioning if the ability of solo carrying matches equates to the maximum fun factor for them. The fun factor is crucial to playerbase numbers.

I did carry, you can stop bringing that up
But with the addition of Escort and Incursion, I no longer want to play the game
I have no issue carrying, but your are, again, wrong

You can kill 2 mechs, back to back, with coolshots and the right build
Even 3 or 4, with Gauss or Ballistic based ones

You cannot kill 6-8, back to back, without significant downtime
That is fact. Fewer players, less ammo, less time needed to whittle the other team down.




It's not debatable, it's easier to carry with fewer variables
Less armor to destroy, fewer guns to focus mechs down, less ammo and time needed to carry

Snowballs don't disappear in 8vs8, but they are much easier to fight back against. You, as a player, guarantee that. You have guaranteed competence at 12.5%, instead of 8%

[Belkor]

Mcgral18, on 02 March 2018 - 11:29 PM, said:

I did carry, you can stop bringing that up
But with the addition of Escort and Incursion, I no longer want to play the game
I have no issue carrying, but your are, again, wrong

You can kill 2 mechs, back to back, with coolshots and the right build
Even 3 or 4, with Gauss or Ballistic based ones

You cannot kill 6-8, back to back, without significant downtime
That is fact. Fewer players, less ammo, less time needed to whittle the other team down.




It's not debatable, it's easier to carry with fewer variables
Less armor to destroy, fewer guns to focus mechs down, less ammo and time needed to carry

Snowballs don't disappear in 8vs8, but they are much easier to fight back against. You, as a player, guarantee that. You have guaranteed competence at 12.5%, instead of 8%

Blind arrogance? It looks like you didn't even read most of my post. If you can reliably carry against top competitive players (who are currently impactful enough to solo carry 12v12s), you wouldn't be here complaining and demanding a smaller pool of 8v8s. Did you even read when I said "For others, I'm also questioning if the ability of solo carrying matches equates to the maximum fun factor for them. The fun factor is crucial to playerbase numbers."?

You no longer want to play the game? At this point I say good riddance. I'm glad PGI made the decision to ditch the lame / boring 8v8s.

Khobai, on 02 March 2018 - 11:21 PM, said:

we had 8v8 before we ever had 12v12.

so its not like its theoretical. 8v8 had less snowballing. thats just a fact.

Ultimately, the only one with the final numbers on 8-0s and 12-0s will be PGI. I'm willing to bet there is a similar percentage of 8-0s and 12-0s unless PGI says otherwise. The +1 bad teammate having more impact to snowball sink your team in 8v8s should be statistically proven.

Edited by Belkor, 02 March 2018 - 11:54 PM.