415 replies to this topic

[Liveish]

PTR does not work

[Truenobishi]

Me as a total newbie, probably a potato or lemon in some eyes, would prefer 12v12.
Yes, I need time to learn the game, so I stand more in the second or third line, see and learn and try, to get more to the front or play a fast Locust, but often get shot too quick.

So for a newbie I think 12v12 is more convenient and safe. I can and try to support the team as good as I can, but I rely more on the team than I am able to support it. Ok, the pros don't care about newbies, I would think. But as far as I understand the game always needs fresh players to replace those who lost interest over the time.

And then I think 12v12 is more safe = fun for new players, more time to learn from the others. The smaller the team is, the quicker and more cruel you are thrown into game. There's a good chance to loose interest for newbies, when it is too difficult to stay some time alive, enjoy and learn...

[Liveish]

Good people care about new people, as they can turn into good people.

8v8 cuts down on wait time and more of a chance your game ia filled with people around your skill

Edited by live1991, 03 March 2018 - 03:11 AM.

[0111101]

Bombast, on 02 March 2018 - 07:12 PM, said:

Everything I saw was overwhelming support for 8v8. Some people were opposed, but most everyone was all for it.

But it was canceled because the community was '50/50.'

This stream is nothing but lies and I haven't been this angry at a game since Bethesda screwed us with Fallout 4.

Wait a sec Bombast, you're a Founder and their lie about 8v8 is the maddest you've been at the game (or a game)?

Did you forget about all the broken promises and overlooked little details of the last 5+ years? Honestly not trying to start anything here just floored that this of all things is what finally got your goat

[0111101]

Truenobishi, on 03 March 2018 - 03:00 AM, said:

Me as a total newbie, probably a potato or lemon in some eyes, would prefer 12v12.
Yes, I need time to learn the game, so I stand more in the second or third line, see and learn and try, to get more to the front or play a fast Locust, but often get shot too quick.

So for a newbie I think 12v12 is more convenient and safe. I can and try to support the team as good as I can, but I rely more on the team than I am able to support it. Ok, the pros don't care about newbies, I would think. But as far as I understand the game always needs fresh players to replace those who lost interest over the time.

And then I think 12v12 is more safe = fun for new players, more time to learn from the others. The smaller the team is, the quicker and more cruel you are thrown into game. There's a good chance to loose interest for newbies, when it is too difficult to stay some time alive, enjoy and learn...

That makes sense but also applies to 8v8... I say the smaller team size is more beneficial overall. Wait times will be shorter, this is a benefit for everyone in the game's off-hours, as well as for Oceanic players at all times of the day who have a much smaller player population to work with if they want a good connection in game.

Good players will have fewer teammates to carry, and bad (or new) players will have fewer enemies focusing them down when they inevitably turn the wrong corner while they're still learning the ropes. There's also less room for diffusion of responsibility to take place in an 8v8 setting, 4 fewer bodies ignoring what's happening or who's speaking because "someone else is closer or more appropriately equipped to handle it" or "I'm too good to listen to this guy." Nothing is more frustrating than 11 other players pretending they can't hear each other call for help or team movement over VOIP. At least when that number is down to 7 it means you're only playing 1v8.

Edited by 0111101, 03 March 2018 - 03:27 AM.

[Exilyth]

Matchmaking falling back on 8vs8 on low pop times (or just sending people into 8vs8 when it can't find a balanced enough matchup for 12vs12 in time) would be nice.

[Scyther]

My own thought is, I would very much prefer a mixed 12v12 and 8v8 where the MM picks a size based on both queue pop/wait times and the occasional 'for variety' size change. The 8v8s should also be tilted towards the smaller maps and also perhaps the old maps.

If only one size match is possible (which we know 100% it isn't, but...) then I would stay with the 12v12s. I don't think going all 8v8, all the time, is an improvement. People may want something different but I remember 8v8 quite well and for me the 12v12 format is more fun. (For a given definition of 'fun': 'somewhat less likely to result in a miserable unbalanced match')

Sadly PGI will likely do the 'we don't like programming, so we will ask the 8 people who will give us the answer we want, then say "the community was against it"'. Oh well, there are other games.

[Papaspud]

0111101, on 03 March 2018 - 03:18 AM, said:

Wait a sec Bombast, you're a Founder and their lie about 8v8 is the maddest you've been at the game (or a game)?

Did you forget about all the broken promises and overlooked little details of the last 5+ years? Honestly not trying to start anything here just floored that this of all things is what finally got your goat

broken promises......hahahahahaha....... want to buy a mech pack? they keep putting resources where nobody wants them.... say 3rd PV, CW, energy draw,etc, etc, and i could go on, and on...................damn it, this game has so much wasted potential.

[Bombast]

0111101, on 03 March 2018 - 03:18 AM, said:

Wait a sec Bombast, you're a Founder and their lie about 8v8 is the maddest you've been at the game (or a game)?

Did you forget about all the broken promises and overlooked little details of the last 5+ years? Honestly not trying to start anything here just floored that this of all things is what finally got your goat

I've taken a lot of breaks from MWO. Most of them coincided with the worst of the 'disappointments.'

Guess this is the first time where I've just sat damn and watched this ludicrous display live.

[Asym]

Well, hang on forum God, the ride is about to get a whole lot more weird if what we think is going to happens, happens.....

PGI has to sell the concept of a true "Rock-and-Sock'em-Robots" Solaris. To do that, TTK can't be less than 60 seconds on average. In fact, Doom/Quake/etc...use a 5 minute sliding scale...... Can you see how, where we are right now, that an average pilot can last 5 minutes in a small space with the meta and uber-Alpha's running around, Hmmmm? Nope, that has a half-life of about 2 nano-seconds with the population we have right now....and, it's what's driven off thousands.....

Oy Vey, what a mess.

[Papaspud]

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahaha

[JohnnyWayne]

I dont know about your guys, but I was under the impression that it was PGIs turn to deliver. Everyone waited for news and now they enter the room with "nobody cared". Yeah, nobody at PGI cared.

Also I remember a lot of dicussions since the announced it, even lately. Just proves one more time they don't read their own forums.

Edited by JohnnyWayne, 03 March 2018 - 05:35 AM.

[H I A S]

The Basilisk, on 03 March 2018 - 02:15 AM, said:

Now that is utter BS.
Look which ppl post here.
THEY are the vocal minority.
Its allways the same ~100ish ppl that are complaning about potatoes in FP, how things go in [insert random topic to rant over here]
Sad fact is nobody of the broad base of the players in T4 to T2 care anymore about elite pugfarmers dominated broken FP.
Did some drops in smal groups in FP over the last weeks and it was farm the pugs most of the time till you meet an organized 12 man drop and you get farmed. There is nothing in between its either easy mode or impossible and that is just boring.
As long as you don't encounter some MRBC or other BS tryhard league training group its more fun and balanced in Group QP.

RIP large groups mecha mayhem....the tryhards ruined the fun, mechas and Beer experience....it is one on one now where those champions can be as l33t as they want all for themselfs.

Wtf dude?
What ttyhards ruined the game? Most left the game a long time ago.
It's a damn online FPS. That means its a competitive game.
Most of you guys are looking for PvE. Hopefully most of you will leave for MW5. Maybe then i can install the game again.

[Mystere]

Papaspud, on 03 March 2018 - 03:51 AM, said:

broken promises......hahahahahaha....... want to buy a mech pack? they keep putting resources where nobody wants them.... say 3rd PV, CW, energy draw,etc, etc, and i could go on, and on...................damn it, this game has so much wasted potential.

Ahem!
Ahem!
Ahem!

Now that I have your attention ...

CW was the original point of MWO and why legions of founders bought into the game in the first place.

Apparently except you, of course.

Edited by Mystere, 03 March 2018 - 07:08 AM.

[Variant1]

Xetelian, on 02 March 2018 - 10:54 PM, said:

The burden of a disconnect will also be seriously painful with fewer players. I see a disconnect every couple matches and it is extremely common for whatever reason.

The dc problem has been with server connection. Its gotten worse since the pheonix hawk update, i randomly lose connection for no reason. One day i have 0 dc but then the next day i could be droping 4-6 times out of nowhere. PGI needs to fix them servers yo

H I A S, on 03 March 2018 - 06:57 AM, said:

It's a damn online FPS. That means its a competitive game.
Most of you guys are looking for PvE. Hopefully most of you will leave for MW5. Maybe then i can install the game again.

actualy mechwarrior online is a mech sim not an fps, theres is third person which all vehicle games should have always on.
As for PVE it has been a strong root in mechwarrior, the game feels much better with npc tanks infantry and aicraft. Turok is a pvp game and it have pve elements like giant scorpions and dinos that didnt detract from the experience it enhanced it. With tanks infantry and aricraft it would break up the monotony by having different things to shoot at, it would help newbies out and teams that are losing could fall back on something. Its not just tanks that mwo needs it also needs some destructable buildings/cover to make the ultamite destruction experience. Im not saying all modes should have those pve elements, skirmish and conquest shouldnt have them for obvious reasons but the others need them to spice things up.

[Cy Mitchell]

Mcgral18, on 02 March 2018 - 10:19 PM, said:

I can reliably shoot 4 robots to death, given reasonable circumstances
I cannot reliably kill 6, especially on the higher end of tonnages because of the increased armor

Heat capacity and ammo doesn't allow for it



You fail to realize, while each Potato on your team does have a larger percentage, you don't have to shoot as many targets
That, along with the fact that there are a third fewer guns means those Potatos may die slower (no guarantee, firing lanes being what they are)



It's easier to carry the lower the numbers get
Snowballing only gets worse the higher numbers get



What don't you understand about that?

I played back in the days of 8v8 and there were lots of 8-0 stomps. The game has changed almost completely from those days but I expect that that will still be the case now. While it is true there are less guns on the battlefield there are also less targets on the battlefield meaning that the ratio does not change but when the first domino falls there are statistically much less of a percentage of dominoes left to fall.

I can see the benefit of 8v8 in one instance. It will lower the wait times for games in Oceanic.The addition of the new Sydney server may also do this. It is possible it could actually extend the wait times in busier regions if there are an insufficient number of servers to handle the additional games that will have to be made to handle all those waiting in queue during peak times.

PUG game time might be extended because it may take longer for first contact to be made or to hunt down stragglers with less hunters on the field. I predict people demanding that maps be made smaller due to this.The brevity of MWOWC and MRBC comp matches, where organized teams compete, show that increased TTK will not necessarily be an end result of a change to 8v8.

Even though there may be less combining of players from different tiers , you are still going to have a vast difference in skill levels between players of the same Tier. Making the teams smaller will only exaggerate the impact of good and bad players on the outcome. I do not find the mixing of tiers to be much of a problems lately compared to the complaints about skill diversity among Tier 1 players.

Ability to use more of the maps is often cited as a benefit but having one or two people split off for a flank or to "do their own thing" will now have an even bigger impact on the rest of the team because their missing firepower/armor makes up an even larger percentage of the total team. The team that stays and moves together will be the more successful team, maybe even more so than in 12v12.

Battles will be smaller and potentially less epic. It will also be less of a draw for some prospective players who are used to large scale squad based combat or the large battle royale combat in modern games.

Many people do not want 8v8.

I am not against a change to 8v8 per se. I just do not see it at the "cure all" that some proponents present it to be. I also do not believe it is a simple matter for PGI to do or something that can be just tried for a short time. I suspect there are a lot of related things that must be changed or adjusted to make the game continue to work properly. I am not sure that the benefits are on par with the investment of time it would take to make the change.

All these things and other possible impacts must be considered and analyzed prior to making a change to 8v8.

[DAYLEET]

Kageru Ikazuchi, on 02 March 2018 - 07:06 PM, said:

Per Russ in the Mar. 2nd production update on twitch, shifting Quick Play back from 12v12 to 8v8 didn't get enough response to warrant any development.

In the hours where the population is low, wait times in Quick Play group queue (sometimes in solo queue) are horrendous. Adjusting back to 8v8 would help alleviate this, right?

Discuss.

Thanks god. It was a terrible idea that got shot down in so many ways when people were talking about it.

[Imperius]

8 v 8 is the only correct answer. Many things never got balanced after the original switch to 12 v 12! Add to that they are trying to push MWO into e-sport but give new users or returning ones no path to possibly join the e-sports space.

Basically they just don’t want to admit 12 v 12 was a mistake for many reasons.

8 v 8 crusade?

[Remover of Obstacles]

So, would there be a better chance for the matchmaker to actually work with 8?

[Scout Derek]

Remover of Obstacles, on 03 March 2018 - 01:00 PM, said:

So, would there be a better chance for the matchmaker to actually work with 8?

Yep.

8 Less players Matchmaker has to worry about balancing into two teams,

and 8 more players to balance a match that needs 8 players.


From 24 players per match to 16, you're getting a ratio of 1:1.5 matches more. So if there's, let's say, 50 matches going on with 12v12, 75 matches would be going on with 8v8.