415 replies to this topic

[KHETTI]

Imperius, on 07 March 2018 - 07:53 AM, said:

Bye! Not sure what you’re referring to but I can assure you I never asked for community warfare, Solaris, or the new skill tree. Weird how those are the three things that have put the game in it’s current state.

If better client performance, longer TTK, and adding more options to actually play this game as a thinking mans shooter are not your thing. Then go have fun in PUBG.

More players on the screen has never made games more fun. It just makes you as the player less important.

wasn't referring to community warfare that's for sure, i was referring to the community ie the actual players.
12v12 at this stage is a clusterf**k and not even slightly enjoyable, Solaris is cool but holds no interest for me, not interested in buying a powecreep mechpack, so whats left for me? nothing sadly.

[Imperius]

So are you for 8 v 8 or 12 v 12 because I’m confused.

[Imperius]

Right now the title of this post is kind of misleading.

It was stated at the recent production update by Russ that 8 v 8 was dead in the water because there was no talk about it. There was supposed to be a Poll or test to gauge the community response and that is what we were waiting for. It never came and then Russ said that. We were like, WUT MATE!?!?

He said on Twitter there will be an official poll for it. I suggest you vote when the time comes. It’s not dead yet.

Edited by Imperius, 07 March 2018 - 08:26 AM.

[KHETTI]

Imperius, on 07 March 2018 - 08:09 AM, said:

So are you for 8 v 8 or 12 v 12 because I’m confused.

Do you actually read other peoples posts?, my first post made it quite clear i was pro 8v8 and had no interest in MWO with 12v12.

[Imperius]

KHETTI, on 07 March 2018 - 08:31 AM, said:

Do you actually read other peoples posts?, my first post made it quite clear i was pro 8v8 and had no interest in MWO with 12v12.

You posted after my post with no quote so you were out of context.

[Imperius]

Check this link https://twitter.com/...9411986432?s=21

[KHETTI]

i wasn't out of context at all, as i was posting in the context of the thread title, you know like people generally do.
I come here once every few months, the days of checking these forums daily ended about 2 years ago.

[JohnnyWayne]

Imperius, on 07 March 2018 - 08:39 AM, said:

Check this link https://twitter.com/...9411986432?s=21

We all know that in a couple of months he wil do nothing because "noone cared enough about it".

[SFC174]

Arguing about 8v8 or 12v12 at this time seems kind of pointless. Until we have a better player ranking system (instead of everyone gets a Tier1 badge!), the possible benefits (and no one has proven any benefits, just conjectured) of 8v8 pale in comparison to the crap sandwich players are forced to eat with the matchmaker. And no, as long as we are stuck with the flawed Tier system, 8v8 will not guarantee any improvement in matchmaking. The problem isn't that you get a Tier4 player in your Tier1 match. The problem is that there are many people in Tier1 that simply don't belong there.

That said, not pushing 8v8 on the player base right now is a smart decision. Whether its 20, 30 or 40% that don't want it, some of those people will simply go away if you implement another polarizing change. Those of you who advocate for 8v8 and really, really, really want it, well, you're still here. Keeping the status quo is less of a risk because you've already proven you'll keep playing.

Yes, I think 8v8 could improve wait times in certain situations. All the other supposed benefits are unproven. I could get behind an 8v8 toggle in times of low population (off hours, or Asia server) with 12v12 being the preferred first choice. But if I have to choose only one, its gotta be 12v12. Then again, who cares, my play time is dropping fast each month as it is.

[Mystere]

Imperius, on 07 March 2018 - 07:25 AM, said:

If the community asks for 8 v 8! And gets 8 v 8. Then yes it’s great PR! People are looking for the few game developers out there left that take player feedback seriously.

Then they find out PGI's and MWO's history.

Imperius, on 07 March 2018 - 08:39 AM, said:

Check this link https://twitter.com/...9411986432?s=21

As I said, once they find out PGI's and MWO's history ...

Edited by Mystere, 07 March 2018 - 10:56 AM.

[kuma8877]

I think we should have 8 v 8 v 8 as a mode. Seriously, think of the possibilities across all the gamemodes....

[Brain Cancer]

kuma8877, on 07 March 2018 - 11:53 AM, said:

I think we should have 8 v 8 v 8 as a mode. Seriously, think of the possibilities across all the gamemodes....

...you know, that wouldn't be bad either.

[LordNothing]

there wasnt talk about it because everyone thought it was coming, i thought it was coming. nothing to discuss at that point.

i think he wanted it to sound like they were talking to the community, without actually talking to the community.

[WarHippy]

Solahma, on 05 March 2018 - 04:28 PM, said:

+ Gameplay and Mech-building shake-up (100% fact)

- Metagame shift, requiring new balance changes (good assumption)

• reducing the amount of mechs in a match could result in new builds. Missile and Ballistic builds will require less ammo. This will spur minor tweaks to existing builds which is fun for many and a burden for others. Overall, I think stagnation hurts a game a lot more than shake ups. Stagnation in gameplay becomes repetitive and boring. This inevitably leads to burn-out and boredom. The combination of new build opportunities and changes to gameplay will remove some of the existing stagnation in the game which will add excitement for some. This is the same reason I think Solaris will be successful.
  
• This change will be a setback in balance potentially. The changes to builds and gameplay will inevitably cause a shift in stat balance. To what degree will be unknown until data can be collected as the meta settles. It could be a big issue, or a minor one. I'm leaning toward a minor issue because the 8v8 competitive scene is already providing some idea of balance, which seems fine. It's not terribly different overall. With QP being 8v8, the game could be balanced with 8v8 in-mind, which would benefit the competitive scene, so even this potential "issue" would benefit the game overall if the players-per-match was consistent.

That isn't 100% fact. That is 100% speculation. I highly doubt anything changes much at all be it tactics or builds. Sure, you might drop a little ammo, but that isn't realistically going to change your build much. Builds that are effective now will be just as effective in 8v8. Deathballs are still going to be prevalent as is nascaring around in circles. Its frankly naive to think it will cause any kind of real shake up going to 8v8.

Solahma, on 05 March 2018 - 04:28 PM, said:

+ Some players would come back for 8v8 (100% fact)

• Both of these things WILL happen. It's a pretty moot point IMO. Some players will HATE the idea of 8v8 so much that they would actually quit. Some players will LOVE the idea of 8v8 and return to the game. It's just a given. However, I HIGHLY doubt that 25% of the player-base will stop playing the game or find marginally less enjoyment if it switched from 12v12 to 8v8. Just because a person votes to not want a feature, doesn't mean they are going to quit because of that feature. A change like team size doesn't fundamentally change the game. So some will leave, some will return, some will grit their teeth and remain, and the majority will get what they want. The majority won't be happy because they got what they want, but because they genuinely believe this will result in a better state for the game. They realize the advantages offset or outweigh the disadvantages. We'd be gaining more than we'd lose.

Please don't lie as it doesn't help your case. The vast majority of those people will be happy simply because they got what they wanted nothing more. Everyone is fighting for what they think is best for the game. The people fighting for 8v8 are not some paragon of virtue trying to do what is right anymore than the people fighting for 12v12 are. It is purely selfish desire on both sides.

JohnnyWayne, on 06 March 2018 - 05:53 AM, said:

You forgot a thing. Increased TTK. Funny isn't it, that they reject the very thing they want to do. Why you wonder, well there arn't as many people around to shoot you simulantiously.

I noticed it ever since 12v12 came out - the games became stale and noone wanted to push or sometimes even peek as focused fire of 4 more mechs is way more punishing as it was before.

Also "Increased burden on top players (speculation)" is not true. Quite the contrary as they have fewer asses to carry. Armor is a shared HP pool in this game and less people can **** it up in 8v8 making your own armor more efficient. So actually its a buff for people know how to handle their personal HP-pool-share.

One could argue that makes your assaults more important again and something you want to protect even more than before.

TTK won't change much at all. In 1v1 mechs can drop in a matter of seconds and being focused fired by 2 or 3 isn't going to be much more noticeable than getting focused by 3 or 4. You make a mistake or walk around the wrong corner you get cored. It doesn't matter if it is 8v8 or 12v12. Sure, there 4 less people potentially shooting at you, but there are also 4 less people on your team potentially pulling fire from you as well.

I also don't think people should be carrying easily in a team game. Balance is going to be even more difficult in 8v8 because of how easy it will be for players like Mcgal18 to carry their team by themselves.

[Brain Cancer]

WarHippy, on 07 March 2018 - 01:36 PM, said:

I also don't think people should be carrying easily in a team game. Balance is going to be even more difficult in 8v8 because of how easy it will be for players like Mcgal18 to carry their team by themselves.

The easier it is to carry, the harder it is to tip a match into complete stomp territory.

I mean, I walk out of matches regularly with 4 solo kills. Is 8-4 a stomp? No. Is it more likely to see four players capable of 2 kills each, or four players capable of 3 kills each? The potential carry load is smaller, so situations where nobody even starts to carry are also fewer- and that means less stomps.

[JohnnyWayne]

WarHippy, on 07 March 2018 - 01:36 PM, said:

TTK won't change much at all. In 1v1 mechs can drop in a matter of seconds and being focused fired by 2 or 3 isn't going to be much more noticeable than getting focused by 3 or 4. You make a mistake or walk around the wrong corner you get cored. It doesn't matter if it is 8v8 or 12v12. Sure, there 4 less people potentially shooting at you, but there are also 4 less people on your team potentially pulling fire from you as well.

I also don't think people should be carrying easily in a team game. Balance is going to be even more difficult in 8v8 because of how easy it will be for players like Mcgal18 to carry their team by themselves.

All I have to say to that is, that maybe YOU won't notice a difference, but I and a lot of people around me sure as hell have in the past. So your opinion stands against valid observation. 1v1 is no argument either as it was never said it would change anything for 1v1.
What you describe is a special case of being stupid and no game should never be build around the assumtion of being stupid. That is your very own fault if that happens and no group size is related to that.

My point and explaination still stands.

Moreover,I find it unfair to say that good players should lose because of dumb people in their teams which is basically what you say. Finding 8 equal players is easier than 12, every individual player gets more relevent as well as gets more power in order to influence the match. Use this power or don't. But again, being stupid is not what any game should be designed for.

Edited by JohnnyWayne, 07 March 2018 - 02:23 PM.

[A Really Old Clan Dude]

My personal thoughts:
Leave quick play alone with 12 V 12
Make Comp/group queue 8 V 8

One of my main reasons is that if (and every second game seem too) have a DC in 12 V 12 you can cope, in 8 V 8 you might as well just say its all over.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

N0ni, on 02 March 2018 - 07:28 PM, said:

I would like the poll sent via GGO in-game mail. Might require an Amusphere.

Given the amount of time I've lost into Fatal Bullet, might be a good way to go. lol

[N0ni]

CMDR Sunset Shimmer, on 07 March 2018 - 03:16 PM, said:

Given the amount of time I've lost into Fatal Bullet, might be a good way to go. lol

Likewise, 66 hours and climbing (from whatever free time i happen to have). Just got a Deathwind at lvl 90, now for the Estoc xD

[sycocys]

Mystere, on 07 March 2018 - 07:09 AM, said:

Now imagine that from a PR point of view. Is that a good way of attracting new players and expanding the game?

To me it looks more like death throes.

I think that I've made it relatively clear that they should be re-coding a bunch of the mechanics so they can deliver game balance to every player at the drop level instead of the over-obsession with balance by skill/xp ratings.

Even most PvE mmo games make actual attempts to have reasonably close balance across all their player-choices at the base level - because it cycles into repeat business and access to a wider audience.

They've made it clear they aren't interested in actually fixing the balance issues and instead wish to pursue the route that involves the least amount of effort on their end whether they've proven it to be ineffective over and over on their own. Going back to 8v8 is pretty much the closest thing to an actual balance pass this game would ever see unless their are major changes in the leadership roles - the whole "unfunning" balance concept and constant tweaking of weapon values without fixing the underlying mechanics that create these imbalances in the first place is a complete waste of everyone's time.