415 replies to this topic

[Khobai]

Slow Speed, on 10 March 2018 - 03:01 PM, said:

Then solaris should be a very good mode for you.

solaris isnt going to be a good mode for anyone

it abandons the one thing that this game does well (teamplay) and turns it into a denigrating epeen contest.

PGI shouldve focused on strengthening what their game did well. instead of diminishing it.


as for 8v8 vs 12v12. 8v8 is undeniably better. thats why high level comp play is 8v8. Theres a better balance between gunlines and brawling. You get less deathballing and more strategy/tactics.

Edited by Khobai, 10 March 2018 - 03:25 PM.

[Eirik Eriksson]

Khobai, on 10 March 2018 - 03:04 PM, said:

solaris isnt going to be a good mode for anyone

Never thought so, why do you expect me to think that a game full of team players will love solaris?

[Imperius]

Khobai, on 10 March 2018 - 03:04 PM, said:

solaris isnt going to be a good mode for anyone

Guess he doesn’t realize yet that only certain mechs and builds will be used in Solaris making balance issues more prevalent to those potatoes who thought they were good because the got tons of finishing kills while standing out in the back in a banshee collecting a capture point.

Sorry Solaris is going to flop just like I said CW would and did.
Change my mind.

[WarHippy]

Imperius, on 10 March 2018 - 02:10 PM, said:

Each time I drop in group queue I can check off many bads. We automatically say to ourselves we’re down 3 people already this will be an uphill fight. Ex 3 urbies on polar... it’s gonna be a bad day for the people who want to win so the potatoes can have fun.

There will always be bads because the tiers mean nothing.

Imperius, on 10 March 2018 - 02:10 PM, said:

Again:
12 v 12 killed performance

It did a little, but it has been years since the change and if at this point you don't have a computer that can handle even this poorly optimized game I have no sympathy.

Imperius, on 10 March 2018 - 02:10 PM, said:

12 v 12 is more unforgiving no matter how much you try to spin it. This game is constantly deathballing nascar!

8v8 will be just as bad. 8v8 will still be deathball and nascar.

Imperius, on 10 March 2018 - 02:10 PM, said:

12 v 12 never got balance scaled properly from 8 v 8

Balance will be just as bad if not worse in 8v8 because there will be more focus on the individual than on the team in a team game.

Imperius, on 10 March 2018 - 02:10 PM, said:

12 v 12 Match maker has to find more filler To get a game/ flood gates open guess what Tier 5 in a tier 1 match.

Like I said the tiers mean nothing. People are still going to complain and you are still going to get bad players as fillers.

Imperius, on 10 March 2018 - 02:10 PM, said:

12 v 12 has done nothing but slowly kill this game for me year after year.

I have a hard time caring what it has done to you. You have quit and comeback so many times over the years and spend most of your time arguing on the forums for whatever your current crusade is. In fact you were always so hell bent on PVE I'm surprised you care what happens as far as PVP is concerned.

Imperius, on 10 March 2018 - 02:10 PM, said:

12 v 12 will be for CW/FP

Maybe, or maybe it won't we will have to see.

[Eirik Eriksson]

Imperius, on 10 March 2018 - 03:08 PM, said:

Guess he doesn’t realize yet that only certain mechs and builds will be used in Solaris making balance issues more prevalent to those potatoes who thought they were good because the got tons of finishing kills while standing out in the back in a banshee collecting a capture point.

Sorry Solaris is going to flop just like I said CW would and did.
Change my mind.

Lol. Premature conclusions. Just makes it more unrealistic to belive what you preach.

[Imperius]

Slow Speed, on 10 March 2018 - 03:13 PM, said:

Lol. Premature conclusions. Just makes it more unrealistic to belive what you preach.

Yup we shall see.

As for warhippy as much as you seem to follow my posts and crusades you should know my PC is not crap. Everyone knows the forums are more interesting than the thinking mans game with all the thinking and team play stripped out of it.

Anyway 8 v 8 will come and will be up for an official vote. Let’s see what the community wants.

Edited by Imperius, 10 March 2018 - 03:18 PM.

[WarHippy]

Solahma, on 10 March 2018 - 03:02 PM, said:

Congratulations, you fell into the trap. Smoking is not objectively bad. It has objectively negative health consequences, but the act of smoking is not objectively bad. That would mean it's 100% a BAD thing for someone to smoke. What if that person values the act of smoking or the taste of tobacco? It's objectively hazardous to bodily health, but not objectively bad to do. Do you understand the difference? If you did, you would understand the analogy.

Yeah, I left off the bad "for you" part. Such a stunning victory for you LOL. I'm pretty sure a reasonable person could understand the context of what I said, but no not you. You are obsessed with pathetic little games. Grow up sparky.

[Eirik Eriksson]

Imperius, on 10 March 2018 - 03:17 PM, said:

Yup we shall see.

As for warhippy as much as you seem to follow my posts and crusades you should know my PC is not crap.

Anyway 8 v 8 will come and will be up for an official vote. Let’s see what the community wants.

If you think a poll will the determine the outcome, well I dont know what to say......

[adamts01]

Imperius, on 10 March 2018 - 02:57 PM, said:

I don’t play anymore because I got tired of the carry harder if you want to win responsibility.

This is one of my big gripes, but I don't think 8v8 would be an improvement. Each potato is more of a detriment to the team when you have a smaller team. The number one thing PGI should focus on to limit our current carry or go home meta is match maker/psr.

I've played since 8v8 days, and I completely disagree that 12v12 is what made the game punishing, it was big pinpoint alphas, starting with the release of Clans.

[Solahma]

Imperius, on 10 March 2018 - 03:08 PM, said:

Sorry Solaris is going to flop just like I said CW would and did.
Change my mind.

extremely off-topic here, but here goes.
There are so many mechs and weapons combinations that you're not going to see just a handful of mechs. The only way that will happen is if certain mechs become sensationalized by streamers the influential players. There isn't a single mech in this game I would say is unbeatable with another mech. There will be min/maxing on so many different levels. Simply preparing for a 1v1 tournament for the first time in a year, utilizing 3 different maps, had me brainstorming a whole bunch of mechs, builds, and strategies.

It's going to be a success for anyone looking to improve, anyone who enjoys the nuances of strategy, and anyone who wants to ACTUALLY prove themselves. So many people boast their stats or claim their skill gives them more say in discussions. Those aren't the people I expect to be proving themselves. I expect people who are genuinely interested in their skill and ability to be playing.

Certainly not the majority. Solaris will be an actually quick way to get an instant challenge, if the matchmaking works somewhat well. 1v1s will always be more exhilarating. Personally, MWO doesn't get my adrenaline pumping at all anymore. It used to, but quick-play has felt stagnant as hell after the skill tree and new tech settled. Competitive is the only way to get that feeling, and i'm sure i'm not alone. Solaris offers that competitive fix very easily and you don't need to be on a team, in a unit, or coordinate times to play. Competitive queue requires A LOT of effort to get matches, almost as much as organizing skrims. That takes time and planning. Solaris, all you need is your own time and someone else in the queue.

If Solaris doesn't look appealing to you, that's one thing, but claiming it is going to be a flop is a bit much. Especially with how much it has going for it and how difficult it would be to flop compared to something like CW that requires a much larger time investment and a lot more players to function well.

[Khobai]

Quote

I've played since 8v8 days, and I completely disagree that 12v12 is what made the game punishing, it was big pinpoint alphas, starting with the release of Clans.

but you get 50% more of those big alphas in 12v12 as opposed to 8v8. Thats why comp play is 8v8 and not 12v12. Because 8v8 helps weaken gunlines and puts it back into parity with brawling. It allows more diversity in builds.

[WarHippy]

Imperius, on 10 March 2018 - 03:17 PM, said:

As for warhippy as much as you seem to follow my posts and crusades you should know my PC is not crap. Everyone knows the forums are more interesting than the thinking mans game with all the thinking and team play stripped out of it.

I never said performance of the game was bad for you. I was pointing out that performance loss because of 12v12 is a terrible argument at this point in time.

Imperius, on 10 March 2018 - 03:17 PM, said:

Anyway 8 v 8 will come and will be up for an official vote. Let’s see what the community wants.

That is fine with me, and if/when we get 8v8 I look forward to all the people still bitching because nothing actually change and all the problems people currently have still exist.

[WarHippy]

Khobai, on 10 March 2018 - 03:24 PM, said:

but you get 50% more of those big alphas in 12v12 as opposed to 8v8. Thats why comp play is 8v8 and not 12v12. Because 8v8 helps weaken gunlines and puts it back into parity with brawling. It allows more diversity in builds.

Also 50% less targets for the enemy team which means on average you are still going be eating just as many of those big alphas.

Solahma, on 10 March 2018 - 03:23 PM, said:

extremely off-topic here, but here goes.
There are so many mechs and weapons combinations that you're not going to see just a handful of mechs. The only way that will happen is if certain mechs become sensationalized by streamers the influential players. There isn't a single mech in this game I would say is unbeatable with another mech. There will be min/maxing on so many different levels. Simply preparing for a 1v1 tournament for the first time in a year, utilizing 3 different maps, had me brainstorming a whole bunch of mechs, builds, and strategies.

It's going to be a success for anyone looking to improve, anyone who enjoys the nuances of strategy, and anyone who wants to ACTUALLY prove themselves. So many people boast their stats or claim their skill gives them more say in discussions. Those aren't the people I expect to be proving themselves. I expect people who are genuinely interested in their skill and ability to be playing.

Certainly not the majority. Solaris will be an actually quick way to get an instant challenge, if the matchmaking works somewhat well. 1v1s will always be more exhilarating. Personally, MWO doesn't get my adrenaline pumping at all anymore. It used to, but quick-play has felt stagnant as hell after the skill tree and new tech settled. Competitive is the only way to get that feeling, and i'm sure i'm not alone. Solaris offers that competitive fix very easily and you don't need to be on a team, in a unit, or coordinate times to play. Competitive queue requires A LOT of effort to get matches, almost as much as organizing skrims. That takes time and planning. Solaris, all you need is your own time and someone else in the queue.

If Solaris doesn't look appealing to you, that's one thing, but claiming it is going to be a flop is a bit much. Especially with how much it has going for it and how difficult it would be to flop compared to something like CW that requires a much larger time investment and a lot more players to function well.

On this we can agree.

Edited by WarHippy, 10 March 2018 - 03:41 PM.

[Imperius]

Solahma, on 10 March 2018 - 03:23 PM, said:

extremely off-topic here, but here goes.
There are so many mechs and weapons combinations that you're not going to see just a handful of mechs. The only way that will happen is if certain mechs become sensationalized by streamers the influential players. There isn't a single mech in this game I would say is unbeatable with another mech. There will be min/maxing on so many different levels. Simply preparing for a 1v1 tournament for the first time in a year, utilizing 3 different maps, had me brainstorming a whole bunch of mechs, builds, and strategies.

It's going to be a success for anyone looking to improve, anyone who enjoys the nuances of strategy, and anyone who wants to ACTUALLY prove themselves. So many people boast their stats or claim their skill gives them more say in discussions. Those aren't the people I expect to be proving themselves. I expect people who are genuinely interested in their skill and ability to be playing.

Certainly not the majority. Solaris will be an actually quick way to get an instant challenge, if the matchmaking works somewhat well. 1v1s will always be more exhilarating. Personally, MWO doesn't get my adrenaline pumping at all anymore. It used to, but quick-play has felt stagnant as hell after the skill tree and new tech settled. Competitive is the only way to get that feeling, and i'm sure i'm not alone. Solaris offers that competitive fix very easily and you don't need to be on a team, in a unit, or coordinate times to play. Competitive queue requires A LOT of effort to get matches, almost as much as organizing skrims. That takes time and planning. Solaris, all you need is your own time and someone else in the queue.

If Solaris doesn't look appealing to you, that's one thing, but claiming it is going to be a flop is a bit much. Especially with how much it has going for it and how difficult it would be to flop compared to something like CW that requires a much larger time investment and a lot more players to function well.

I’ve participated in the masters challenge. Aka Solaris’ birthplace for this game. The difference is there is no big payout for playing. Sure it will be popular at first but will bleed off real fast. People here don’t accept loss, they quit. Not like it used to be where losing tought you how to play better. I’ll get back on topic and make a Solaris topic later maybe. It’s my opinion but I have a lot of observations to back up why I think it will fail. If you want to back in fourth in pm you’re welcome too. I’m almost off work so I’ll be at my computer soon.

Anyway back on topic...

8 v 8 > 12 v 12

[Mcgral18]

AnarchyBurger, on 10 March 2018 - 12:51 PM, said:

Someone explain to me why people want 8v8 quickplay? The wait que isnt that long, and mostly in the history of FPS games. Smaller teams are usually the wrong way to go (aside from pug stomping joy).

I take it you haven't read the thread?

Queue times can be multiple minutes, in off peak hours
It'd be nice there

Fewer PUGtatoes on your team, you are now over 10% of the team, need to chew through less armor, and need less ammo
Easier to carry the rest of the Terribads on your team
Not to say stomps won't still happen, they will, but you have a greater Carry Potential

The two biggest reasons

Perhaps an argument for old (and outright superior) versions of Maps could be brought back
Frozen Night was a fantastic map
Current Frozen is a boring Snipe fest, with a central canyon which makes any movement nearly impossible to mask

[Eirik Eriksson]

Mcgral18, on 10 March 2018 - 03:58 PM, said:

I take it you haven't read the thread?

Queue times can be multiple minutes, in off peak hours
It'd be nice there

Fewer PUGtatoes on your team, you are now over 10% of the team, need to chew through less armor, and need less ammo
Easier to carry the rest of the Terribads on your team
Not to say stomps won't still happen, they will, but you have a greater Carry Potential

The two biggest reasons

Perhaps an argument for old (and outright superior) versions of Maps could be brought back
Frozen Night was a fantastic map
Current Frozen is a boring Snipe fest, with a central canyon which makes any movement nearly impossible to mask

I can agree with those two biggest reasons as they seem to occur. Issue for me is beeing in tier 3 I dont really need to wait more than 30 seconds for a match. On top of it, beeing a PUGtatoe, I dont most oftently need the carrying.

[Mystere]

DAYLEET, on 10 March 2018 - 01:57 PM, said:

It also sends a message to everyone who might still just find the game now that it is effectively on a downward spiral like when mmos starts merging servers. No one wants to join and spend time in a dying game. Thats a sad fact and i hate it too.

I wonder why many people here do not seem to realize that this is exactly the message that will be broadcasted to the outside world once we downgrade to 8v8. Because make no mistake about it, it will indeed be seen as a downgrade.

DAYLEET, on 10 March 2018 - 01:57 PM, said:

The people who complain now about matchmaking and everything else wont stop at 8v8. Its not like it will become their fault when they lose and get stomped in 8v8, its will be everyone else fault again.

I will be the first to maniacally laugh and go "I told you so!" when that happens.

[Mystere]

Solahma, on 10 March 2018 - 03:02 PM, said:

Smoking is not objectively bad.

The WHO 100% disagrees with you. The tobacco industry, for obvious reasons, does not. Lol!

[kuma8877]

The one thing I find odd about this whole conversation is, the 100% conviction that some have to 8v8 being the saving grace for MWO, and that no other method could possibly do the same. I'm curious if those who might get their way in flipping the current apple cart, are willing to be held financially responsible if 8v8 doesn't work out for PGI (hypothetically) and the crowd that prefers 12v12 leaves instead, or that potential new blood sees it as MWO dying because of the downshift and don't give the game a shot (especially with the re-brand coming to S7)?

Personally, I think PGI digging in and finally developing end game style content (re-tooling CW for example) would do much more for the game than wasting any time on shifting QP to 8v8 (throw out enough money to pull in a good Cryengine engineer from Crytech or Amazon). Make it a mode sure, but shifting the entire game back to it is probably going to have more side affects than we are thinking of here and many possibilities could be much worse as a result. We want growth and innovation in our options to have mech combat, not less.

[Mystere]

kuma8877, on 10 March 2018 - 07:00 PM, said:

We want growth and innovation in our options to have mech combat, not less.

Some people seem to have this belief that regression and downgrades will somehow make MWO great (again).