116 replies to this topic

[MischiefSC]

Because it sells mech packs.

That's why it's not OP.

Seriously, wtf are you, new?

[Remover of Obstacles]

Jman5, on 15 April 2018 - 05:09 PM, said:

Regardless, Clan Machine guns are getting a nerf next patch and it will impact the Piranha's damage numbers.

Do you think there will be a significant change in the amount of Piranha kills? Or just take 12.5% longer to peel the potatoes?


Should the component (equipment) health be increased?
Considering most components have 10 or less health (cECM = 2 hp, cLBX10 = 10 hp) - an array of 12 machine guns should get get a least one crit per 1/10 of a second. So between 0.2 and 1.0 seconds your have probably crit'ed out all the equipment in a location. Reaction time of partially baked spud to actually twist or turn is probably getting closer to 0.5 seconds or more...

[Battlemaster56]

This thread agian I thought we got over this and start talking bout Sol7, but I guess we'll never get over til we either shaft it or find a stupid mechanic to put in uselessness, or limits it potential.

Is average players skill falling even faster than before, or the lack of self confidence in their ability to get better or ask tips from their fellow players. I mean it's not hard to do even ingame, watch other players deal with them.

PIR can be a pain but if you dedicate some time to better yourself other than crying bout a single thing, that could lead into a domino effect you would actually see the strengths and weaknesses of said mech or multitude of mechs.

[kuma8877]

Remover of Obstacles, on 15 April 2018 - 05:55 PM, said:

Do you think there will be a significant change in the amount of Piranha kills? Or just take 12.5% longer to peel the potatoes?


Should the component (equipment) health be increased?
Considering most components have 10 or less health (cECM = 2 hp, cLBX10 = 10 hp) - an array of 12 machine guns should get get a least one crit per 1/10 of a second. So between 0.2 and 1.0 seconds your have probably crit'ed out all the equipment in a location. Reaction time of partially baked spud to actually twist or turn is probably getting closer to 0.5 seconds or more...

Did you forget armor has to be removed first?

[Kiiyor]

Bud Crue, on 15 April 2018 - 02:52 PM, said:

I suspect it is not "OP" in the same sense that the Deathstrike is not "OP".

This is a great point, and is something that the anti Piranha crowd rarely take into account. A well piloted DS (or any other high performing assault) can make a huge impact on a fight the whole way through - not just in the last 5 minutes like a Piranha can, and the DS does it far more consistently.

People just aren't used to seeing lights rack up the same damage numbers as assaults.

[Nightbird]

It's less OP than Mad Cat MKII, less OP then KDK-3, less OP than Annihilators, less OP than Hellbringers, Ebons, and 20 other mechs. Is it stlll "OP"?

[Darian DelFord]

Racerxintegra2k, on 15 April 2018 - 03:13 PM, said:

The mech should have never entered the game .. nothing else like it. It VAPORIZES any component it focuses on. a dps of 13 on a fast mech seems like a pretty substantial list of advantages, especially when you compare it to any number of Innersphere mechs.


jam bar after 6 machine guns

Please Base Nerf Posts on Facts and not complete Horse Hockey

Racerxintegra2k, on 15 April 2018 - 03:20 PM, said:

... from 8 to 7 is NOT a nerf and it does nothing to address the imbalance of 12 guns vs 4 on the innersphere side in same weight class.

I am sorry I did not know there was an imbalance.... could you please be more specific? I mean really. I can tell you that I have not met a Piranha yet that my Oxide has not destroyed when they came after my bigger friends.

Racerxintegra2k, on 15 April 2018 - 03:20 PM, said:

Only thing that matters in a game is fun .. Anyone facing a piranha with a competent pilot is not going to have much fun.

This is the Kodiak-3 all over again ... Its not fun

I am sorry but the Piranha is far from the days of the Kodiak Domination.... At least you can kill a Piranha relatively easy.

Racerxintegra2k, on 15 April 2018 - 03:29 PM, said:

They do not die in 1 hit, just stop with that narrative. Its not as easy as you make it sound.

Ummm yes they do.

Racerxintegra2k, on 15 April 2018 - 03:35 PM, said:

.... could you make a more narrow scenario to back up your claim that it dies from one hit. It doesn't just sit there. It can be fragile yes but this magical yea just shoot it once and is dead thing is silly

Lets see here... more specifics.......

1. Most mechs carry a 50+ Alpha at 500+ meters. That is what 3 or more alpha's before the Piranah can even get within 130 meters

2. Streaks

3. SRMs

4. Anti Light Weapons...... You know who you are..... The LURM'er with only LRM's and no back up weapons. Like that Atlas

Hmmmm what do you know...... I provided facts

Samial, on 15 April 2018 - 05:25 PM, said:

It doesn't need a lot of ammo and when these things come at you you're dead there is no ifs or buts you are dead because its hit you in the back for 2 secs and then its off to your team mates, and no matter what people say 75% of mechs here are so damn slow even watching your back they still core you faster than you can turn...

Yes once in a while you get lucky and kill a piranha but not very often..

Sorry but as someone who has piloted the piranha at length.... the ammo thing is a BIG issue. Believe it or not it CAN NOT chew through armor as quickly as you all make it seem.... ESPECIALLY if the target met is moving and torso twisting.


if your going to call for a nerf it goes over much better and people actually think you may have a valid point if you can back it up with at least a semblance of facts as outlined below.

Viktor Drake, on 15 April 2018 - 03:43 PM, said:

You know people can say all they want that a 12 MG Piranha isn't OP but it very much is. I know because I own one. You can tell it is OP because enemy mechs all run away from you when you concentrate your fire on them. Doesn't matter how much firepower they have or their size, they all start seeking to avoid you the second you open up on them because they know your going to strip them apart in seconds. Hell being on the opposite side of that on numerous equations, if your not in pristine armor condition, 5-10 seconds is all a Piranha needs to take you out or neuter you completely and make you unable to effectively be able to continue to fight.

The only reason that the 12 MG Piranha or any mech mounting more than 6 MGs doesn't always put up impressive numbers, is because they are a priority target for anyone who has any sense at all. You just know you have to put down that mass MG mech ASAP or else you and your team are going to have a bad day, period. Get 2-3 of those mass MG mechs on a team and that team is almost guaranteed to win.

So seriously, people just need to stop defending MGs. Honestly I feel the way mass MGs work currently is the most broken mechanic this game as ever had. It is 10x worse that the Poptart epidemic that saw JJ nerfed into uselessness so I honestly don't know why PGI doesn't actually do anything about them.

Also this is coming from a guy who constantly blast PGI for their nerf now, nerf again and nerf some more attitude to balancing. Out of over 8000 posts, I don't think I have ever had much more than a couple dozen or so of them that ever condoned any nerf in this game yet here I am screaming my head off that Mass MGs need a nerf and the reason why is very obvious to anyone playing this game whether they want to admit it or not. I will gladly take a nerfed to hell, useless Piranha and other mass MG mech if that is what is required to remove this cancer from the game.

Edited by Darian DelFord, 15 April 2018 - 06:21 PM.

[Alexander of Macedon]

Racerxintegra2k, on 15 April 2018 - 03:35 PM, said:

.... could you make a more narrow scenario to back up your claim that it dies from one hit. It doesn't just sit there. It can be fragile yes but this magical yea just shoot it once and is dead thing is silly

Racerxintegra2k, on 15 April 2018 - 03:13 PM, said:

It VAPORIZES any component it focuses on=

[Andi Nagasia]

Samial, on 15 April 2018 - 05:25 PM, said:

It doesn't need a lot of ammo and when these things come at you you're dead there is no ifs or buts you are dead because its hit you in the back for 2 secs and then its off to your team mates, and no matter what people say 75% of mechs here are so damn slow even watching your back they still core you faster than you can turn...

Yes once in a while you get lucky and kill a piranha but not very often..

2 seconds? i doubt that,
most of my mechs have only 8-6 back armor(yes if you see me in game, my back is pretty weak, )
that said even with x3Damage due to crits it would have a PIR 4-5 seconds to core our a 55Ton mech from behind,
a 75Ton mech would be 5-7 seconds, assuming you only hit Rear-CT, and they didnt twist at all during that time,

i would also like to point out that a VPR with 9 Heavy Smalls will do 58Damage in less than 2 seconds,
coring out most mechs its weight or lighter, and in 2nd alpha can kill a 75Ton Mech,
and thats without Crits, with Crits it'll do about 68-73damage per alpha,

ive run tests with the PIR seeing how long it takes for it to eat threw back armor,
what ive seen you need to ignore a PIR for it to get the best of you, which is the same for most mechs,
like i said before, stop panicking when fighting a PIR, just take your time and kill it,

[Jman5]

Remover of Obstacles, on 15 April 2018 - 05:55 PM, said:

Do you think there will be a significant change in the amount of Piranha kills? Or just take 12.5% longer to peel the potatoes?


Should the component (equipment) health be increased?
Considering most components have 10 or less health (cECM = 2 hp, cLBX10 = 10 hp) - an array of 12 machine guns should get get a least one crit per 1/10 of a second. So between 0.2 and 1.0 seconds your have probably crit'ed out all the equipment in a location. Reaction time of partially baked spud to actually twist or turn is probably getting closer to 0.5 seconds or more...

Significant? Probably not. A reduction? I think so.

Quote

Should the component (equipment) health be increased?

I think if PGI decides Piranhas are criting things out too quickly down the road, a blanket buff to component health isn't the right solution. A better solution would be to introduce some sort of upper limit or diminishing return so you can only crit stuff out so fast.

Another possibility is to give mechs some sort of crit resistance bar that increases as you take crit damage and then decreases over time. The higher your bar goes, the more crit chance reduction your mech gains.

[Xiphias]

Viktor Drake, on 15 April 2018 - 03:43 PM, said:

The only reason that the 12 MG Piranha or any mech mounting more than 6 MGs doesn't always put up impressive numbers, is because they are a priority target for anyone who has any sense at all. You just know you have to put down that mass MG mech ASAP or else you and your team are going to have a bad day, period.

Isn't this the same case for assaults like the MKII? The only reason they aren't doing massive damage every match is that they are the most dangerous thing on the battlefield and people know to focus them down. The fact that most of the time people are comfortable ignoring lights compared to almost any other target speaks volumes on the overall balance.

[Asym]

To answer the OP, massed weapons are OP so that means that:

6 ERLL's are OP
6 UAC-2's are OP (especially with fire control)
An LRM 80+ Assault are OP
An Assault ATM-36 is OP
6 UAC-5's are op (especially with FC)
6 streak launchers on one mech are OP

Any weapon is only as good as the pilots that use them and the pilots that should be working together to defend from them.
There are some HUGE problems with lights that act like min-assaults at 1/5 the weight.......

[Requiemking]

Asym, on 15 April 2018 - 07:30 PM, said:

To answer the OP, massed weapons are OP so that means that:

6 ERLL's are OP
6 UAC-2's are OP (especially with fire control)
An LRM 80+ Assault are OP
An Assault ATM-36 is OP
6 UAC-5's are op (especially with FC)
6 streak launchers on one mech are OP

Any weapon is only as good as the pilots that use them and the pilots that should be working together to defend from them.
There are some HUGE problems with lights that act like min-assaults at 1/5 the weight.......

What Lights can do that exactly? Urbie is slow, Wolfhound is a poke machine competing with dozens of much better mechs, anything <30 tons dies if you sneeze on it, and everything else still has not recovered from the Rescale.

[DeadEye COTP]

Andi Nagasia, on 15 April 2018 - 06:29 PM, said:

2 seconds? i doubt that,
most of my mechs have only 8-6 back armor(yes if you see me in game, my back is pretty weak, )
that said even with x3Damage due to crits it would have a PIR 4-5 seconds to core our a 55Ton mech from behind,
a 75Ton mech would be 5-7 seconds, assuming you only hit Rear-CT, and they didnt twist at all during that time,

i would also like to point out that a VPR with 9 Heavy Smalls will do 58Damage in less than 2 seconds,
coring out most mechs its weight or lighter, and in 2nd alpha can kill a 75Ton Mech,
and thats without Crits, with Crits it'll do about 68-73damage per alpha,

ive run tests with the PIR seeing how long it takes for it to eat threw back armor,
what ive seen you need to ignore a PIR for it to get the best of you, which is the same for most mechs,
like i said before, stop panicking when fighting a PIR, just take your time and kill it,

You conveniently ignore everything that actually makes the Pirahna what it is, looking at raw dps numbers literally means nothing. It has the largest crit potential of any mech in the game. If you have any exposed component, which is incredibly likely for your back, you are instantly crippled in the first half a second. Go test it on any build that runs gauss and watch how laughably fast you crit it the second the component is exposed.

It's incredibly fast, and incredibly small which makes anything short of small/medium pulses or well placed ballistics useless. There hasn't been a light mech as potent as the Pir since before the Artic Cheater got nerfed.

You can make any argument you want and it makes no difference. Some of the best 1v1 pilots in the game, and PGI, both came together to decide it is the highest ranked light mech in Solaris along with the MLX which is the 2nd biggest boater of MG's.

(These same people almost exclusively run the PIR in QP... they must just be gluttons for punishment cause we all know these people just play to make their own lives hard and not go with the easiest killing machines)

Edited by DeadEye COTP, 15 April 2018 - 07:55 PM.

[Armored Yokai]

Racerxintegra2k, on 15 April 2018 - 02:32 PM, said:

White Knights please explain to me again how 12 machine guns on a light mech isn't a complete and utter outlier of the rest of the game ?

Mgun monkeys tend to hide and let someone else soak up the damage so they can score free hits or, they go on their own and try to kill a lone assault by leg humping...highly damaged mechs also are a target. The biggest counter for mgun lights are legs or streaks because both can render them useless due to lack of long range weapons or kill them completely.

[Metus regem]

Put more than 2 armour on your back next time... also pack some SSRM/s, 20t mechs are deathly allergic to them...

[Yondu Udonta]

Armored Yokai, on 15 April 2018 - 07:57 PM, said:

Mgun monkeys tend to hide and let someone else soak up the damage so they can score free hits or, they go on their own and try to kill a lone assault by leg humping...highly damaged mechs also are a target. The biggest counter for mgun lights are legs or streaks because both can render them useless due to lack of long range weapons or kill them completely.

I'm curious as to why the fairies gathered at that special magical place at sunrise

[Armored Yokai]

Yondu the Ravager, on 15 April 2018 - 08:19 PM, said:

I'm curious as to why the fairies gathered at that special magical place at sunrise

this sentence is catchy. but could those lights be the fairies? gathering battlemech dust?

[LordNothing]

most of the "lights op" is coming from bad assault pilots.

lights are not op, light pilots are op. a good light pilot can take the worst light mech, and still kill giants with it. assault pilots are just compensating for something.

Edited by LordNothing, 15 April 2018 - 08:52 PM.

[fat4eyes]

Andi Nagasia, on 15 April 2018 - 06:29 PM, said:

2 seconds? i doubt that,
most of my mechs have only 8-6 back armor(yes if you see me in game, my back is pretty weak, )
that said even with x3Damage due to crits it would have a PIR 4-5 seconds to core our a 55Ton mech from behind,
a 75Ton mech would be 5-7 seconds, assuming you only hit Rear-CT, and they didnt twist at all during that time,

i would also like to point out that a VPR with 9 Heavy Smalls will do 58Damage in less than 2 seconds,
coring out most mechs its weight or lighter, and in 2nd alpha can kill a 75Ton Mech,
and thats without Crits, with Crits it'll do about 68-73damage per alpha,

ive run tests with the PIR seeing how long it takes for it to eat threw back armor,
what ive seen you need to ignore a PIR for it to get the best of you, which is the same for most mechs,
like i said before, stop panicking when fighting a PIR, just take your time and kill it,

To be fair, 9 heavy smalls ghost heat at 5, and at 4.5 tons is 50% heavier than 12 mgs, nevermind that their dps drops to around half once the heatcap is reached. MGs do too much damage to armor IMO, and because of that is outcompeting the small lasers at their job.