161 replies to this topic

[Ralatar]

Just floors me everytime I see 'but there's not enough of a population to have a proper MM'....

Do ya think if we had a HALFWAY working MM matching people by ability there wouldn't be a greater retention and a return of old timers that left mainly because of the MM...I know about 50 paying backers that would return if there as ANY semblance of a chance to have even partially balanced matches.

Wow, PGI, you would make more money...Wow community, you would have better matches...

As it's been forwarded, using average MS (would need to be done by AMS for each weight class depending on what you're dropping in, not all play the same 'tier' across all classes) would be better than what we have now.
Even with growing pains getting something like this in place, even with longer wait times for 'real' matches we would have a better system than the current non-system.

This issue is and has been bleeding this game of players for YEARS, it' become a cancer eating away at this community and brought up over and over in the forums ....If PGI and this community want this game to continue to stagnate then by all means...keep things as status quo...

Edited by Ralatar, 19 July 2018 - 04:28 PM.

[Wil McCullough]

Ralatar, on 19 July 2018 - 04:06 PM, said:

Just floors me everytime I see 'but there's not enough of a population to have a proper MM'....

Do ya think if we had a HALFWAY working MM matching people by ability there wouldn't be a greater retention and a return of old timers that left mainly because of the MM...I know about 50 paying backers that would return if there as ANY semblance of a chance to have even partially balanced matches.

Wow, PGI, you would make more money...Wow community, you would have better matches...

As it's been forwarded, using average MS (would need to be done by AMS for each weight class depending on what you're dropping in, not all play the same 'tier' across all classes) would be better than what we have now.
Even with growing pains getting something like this in place, even with longer wait times for 'real' matches we would have a better system than the current non-system.

This issue is and has been bleeding this game of players for YEARS, it' become a cancer eating away at this community and brought up over and over in the forums ....If PGI and this community want this game to continue to stagnate then by all means...keep things as status quo...

Ms can be gamed. The solution is one that every other pvp instance-based game uses - zero sum tiering based on win/loss record.

What that meana is that if you're a narcer who's excellent at his job and really contributes to the team, you tier up just as fast as a guy who's good at shooting mechs. As long as you win more than you lose, your tier should go up.

Conversely, if you hide and vulture kills exclusively, you should win less than you lose. Which means your tier will go down until you're playing people with the same w/l record as you.

Zero sum psr means players should have even fights more often than not, because everything gravitates.towards a 1.0 wlr.

Mm just has to balance per match by making the total tier "score" of both teams as close to each other as possible. It can't do that now because every player, their mother and pet hamster get pushed to tier 1 despite vast differences in skill and performance due to the ridiculous weighted psr system. It means that even if the mm puts together a fair match on paper, it can be an obviously unfair matchup because i'm tier 1 and proton is also tier 1.

Fair matches start with fair psr. Get that right first and a mm system will do what it's supposed to do.

[Ralatar]

No Will, win/loss was tried and as explained many times, you can get dropped time and time again putting out 600+ and 3+ kills and lose tiering which is then not remotely an accurate measure of your skill. MS is at least a closer measure, and if by gaming you mean things like AMS kills and the like as some like to claim then I disagree. Those dead missle's not harming my team are worth points....

The MS's would need tweaking and that's part of the growing pains I was talking about. If you wanted to have a win/loss measure used for unit/group play maybe...but not in a Quick Play situation, been tried and failed badly.
Was here when they tried it...

Edited by Ralatar, 19 July 2018 - 11:15 PM.

[Wil McCullough]

Ralatar, on 19 July 2018 - 11:14 PM, said:

No Will, win/loss was tried and as explained many times, you can get dropped time and time again putting out 600+ and 3+ kills and lose tiering which is then not remotely an accurate measure of your skill. MS is at least a closer measure, and if by gaming you mean things like AMS kills and the like as some like to claim then I disagree. Those dead missle's not harming my team are worth points....

The MS's would need tweaking and that's part of the growing pains I was talking about. If you wanted to have a win/loss measure used for unit/group play maybe...but not in a Quick Play situation, been tried and failed badly.
Was here when they tried it...

You might lose matches even with great performance once in a while, but over the long run you'll win as much as you deserve because those potatoes you failed to carry? Yeah they're dropping tier and eventually playing in the kiddie pool. With zero sum psr based on wlr, if you're constantly putting out 609 damage and 3 kills per game, you're only going to keep rising.

Playing with ms values is complex and frankly a waste of time. The objective is to remove as many variables as possible so the matchmaker can predict and therefore create fair matches. Ms-based psr has too many unpredictable values that get in the way

[BWS2K]

Just remember - PGI doesn't want people to tier-up by NARCing. It's a shooter. They want you shooting, hence the current state of affairs.

[TWIAFU]

MrXanthios, on 21 May 2018 - 06:23 PM, said:

matchmaking is not fine.

no player, as good as he might be, can carry for an entire incompetent team.

stomp shouldn't happen.

Then get rid of the incompetent pilots that make up the team and then no more stomps, right?

Then you can just get stomped by better pilots.

Fixed.

[Ralatar]

No, we don't need to get rid of anyone, just match up like skilled players. This isn't rocket science....

[Asym]

Ralatar, on 19 July 2018 - 04:06 PM, said:

Just floors me everytime I see 'but there's not enough of a population to have a proper MM'....

Do ya think if we had a HALFWAY working MM matching people by ability there wouldn't be a greater retention and a return of old timers that left mainly because of the MM...I know about 50 paying backers that would return if there as ANY semblance of a chance to have even partially balanced matches.

Wow, PGI, you would make more money...Wow community, you would have better matches...

As it's been forwarded, using average MS (would need to be done by AMS for each weight class depending on what you're dropping in, not all play the same 'tier' across all classes) would be better than what we have now.
Even with growing pains getting something like this in place, even with longer wait times for 'real' matches we would have a better system than the current non-system.

This issue is and has been bleeding this game of players for YEARS, it' become a cancer eating away at this community and brought up over and over in the forums ....If PGI and this community want this game to continue to stagnate then by all means...keep things as status quo...

We were just talking about this the other night playing in another game ! Both of the teams I was on left the game... We'd love to come back en masse but, there's no reason to....

What was is long gone. Seriously: fix and upgrade the game engine; un-nerf everything and start over; convene a customer balance team; fix the maps; and then, we'd consider coming back on a regular basis.

Talk is cheap. Till then, we are still teams that play elsewhere and hope, one day MWO is fixed.

[Mystere]

Ralatar, on 19 July 2018 - 04:06 PM, said:

Just floors me everytime I see 'but there's not enough of a population to have a proper MM'....

Do ya think if we had a HALFWAY working MM matching people by ability there wouldn't be a greater retention and a return of old timers that left mainly because of the MM...I know about 50 paying backers that would return if there as ANY semblance of a chance to have even partially balanced matches.

Wow, PGI, you would make more money...Wow community, you would have better matches...

As it's been forwarded, using average MS (would need to be done by AMS for each weight class depending on what you're dropping in, not all play the same 'tier' across all classes) would be better than what we have now.
Even with growing pains getting something like this in place, even with longer wait times for 'real' matches we would have a better system than the current non-system.

This issue is and has been bleeding this game of players for YEARS, it' become a cancer eating away at this community and brought up over and over in the forums ....If PGI and this community want this game to continue to stagnate then by all means...keep things as status quo...

Your main error is assuming that the MM is the game's biggest problem. It is not. Its biggest problem is that after 5 years it still is less than a mere skeleton of the game that was originally sold. After 5 years, the game is simply stale. As such, no amount of changes to the matchmaker will fix that very basic problem.

[mad kat]

Ralatar, on 19 July 2018 - 04:06 PM, said:

Just floors me everytime I see 'but there's not enough of a population to have a proper MM'....

Do ya think if we had a HALFWAY working MM matching people by ability there wouldn't be a greater retention and a return of old timers that left mainly because of the MM...I know about 50 paying backers that would return if there as ANY semblance of a chance to have even partially balanced matches.

Wow, PGI, you would make more money...Wow community, you would have better matches...

As it's been forwarded, using average MS (would need to be done by AMS for each weight class depending on what you're dropping in, not all play the same 'tier' across all classes) would be better than what we have now.
Even with growing pains getting something like this in place, even with longer wait times for 'real' matches we would have a better system than the current non-system.

This issue is and has been bleeding this game of players for YEARS, it' become a cancer eating away at this community and brought up over and over in the forums ....If PGI and this community want this game to continue to stagnate then by all means...keep things as status quo...

Nail on the head there pal.

I don't know about you but I'd gladly triple even quadruple my wait times if it meant I wasn't about to drop into a 2-12 stomp that's about 85-90% of my matches. PGI just think if the matches are dropping quickly there's a good enough player base.

Unfortunately as you point out it's a vicious circle that has and is getting worse for a couple of years now. As the match standard drops more and more people leave which means even worse games. You only need to look at the steam charts to see just how miserable the player base is for an international online game.

I've taken a couple of months off as it was getting so bad I've been enjoying battletech. Finished that so playing a couple of MWO matches again and the game is still as predictably bad as it's been for a while.

[HammerMaster]

Zero sum.
Been down this road.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

MWO is more dead as Lived ...before a Half year im played mWO(im a Founder) only by Events or by more Time FP ..now after S7 nothing more ...lost all interest by this Company ...im not seeing thats the interest coming back im seeing the endless Treads ..nerf this...buff this from Guys thats played 3 months and wondering thats stomping while not understand game Mechanics and warfare Rules, not run as Brawler over open Field in LRM while hungry for kills in tunnelview or fight defensive HPG basestanding ..all this Ego players thats fight for own Epeen with her only LRM /Brawl Boats and wondering thats Onewonder Mechs not practicable of each map by each tactic..thats not the team who im will play ,tahts like the kids thats playing BF aon non vehicle Servers only a Spawnpoint sniper or BrawlRusher in Closer Quarter Maps...No Quality by players =no Matchmaking..no Matchmaker can Balancing stupidity

Edited by Old MW4 Ranger, 24 July 2018 - 02:33 AM.

[Crimson Lancer]

This is a mess. So groups of 2 are landing to the same Q as groups of 12 ? This makes no sense at all. What group of 2 could do against a full fledged team on TS or discord?

On my opinion, groups of 2 and 3 should land to the normal Q, at least to allow all the players to have fun.

[FRAGTAST1C]

Crimson Lancer, on 26 December 2018 - 01:00 AM, said:

This is a mess. So groups of 2 are landing to the same Q as groups of 12 ? This makes no sense at all. What group of 2 could do against a full fledged team on TS or discord?

On my opinion, groups of 2 and 3 should land to the normal Q, at least to allow all the players to have fun.

There are more variables to consider in matching people than Groups. As a result, the player-base needs to be vast. As of now, I read on Jarl's list that only 36k players are active and the number's dwindling. There aren't enough players to sort based on Group Queue, Solo Queue, etc., on top of tonnage, tier and so on.

[Tarl Cabot]

Crimson Lancer, on 26 December 2018 - 01:00 AM, said:

This is a mess. So groups of 2 are landing to the same Q as groups of 12 ? This makes no sense at all. What group of 2 could do against a full fledged team on TS or discord?

On my opinion, groups of 2 and 3 should land to the normal Q, at least to allow all the players to have fun.

I would be okay with Duos but not 3s in solo queue. Those teams which communicate effectively are the teams that will generally win and win by a landslide because they are working more as a unit than individual bits.

[Cementi]

I would be curious to see how it would work at least in solo que with one bucket and teams balanced by tonnage. Just let RNG balance skill because the Tier system, at least in my opinion, is an extremely poor indicator of skill.

Not saying that would be perfect but with current population levels maybe that would be better.

Maybe.

[UMPA Viper]

You mean you guys dont find it fun to either win or lose by matches of 12-1 or 12-0 in under 5 mins ??? Thats lunacy ! Matchmaker is so horrible for group drops anymore that its pathetic. There also seems to be a mechanic in group drops of damage given versus damage received based on tier which doesnt seem to be in place in pug drops. My friends and i tested this theory and it seems to be true.

Anyway , doesnt seem to matter , PGI wont do anything about it. If ya want better drops with your friends , theres always the ole sync drop in pug play. Much better matches.

[Aidan Crenshaw]

1. This is a horrible necro.
2. There's no such thing in GQ "matchmaking". Whatever you think you have tested and found out, you're wrong.

[GeminiWolf]

Necro

[FRAGTAST1C]

Just got back into MWO last night for the events and played about 11 QP matches. I noticed that people in Units were more in number on one side than the other. Now, before you say, "NO!! THAT DOESN'T MEAN THEY WERE ANY GOOD", I agree and I don't mean to claim anything by it but the thing is, I won a few matches out of those 11 and they were all when my team had more people in Units and vice versa.