831 replies to this topic

[Smith Gibson]

I don't think switching from 12v12 to 8v8 will make the game better. I think having 4v4, 8v8 & 12v12 quickplay where you don't know before the match which one it will be would give the most variety and improvement to the game. Tie it to low population hours and high population hours if you need to, but variety is the key to keeping your players.

[ZMech69]

Just make it optional if it is a must, stop pissing off your small base of players maybe? Is PGI goal to have 0 players across all three game modes...

Edited by ZMech69, 06 June 2018 - 09:15 PM.

[Imperius]

VitriolicViolet, on 06 June 2018 - 08:27 PM, said:

if they go 8v8 that will be the end for me, i always liked 12v12.

i play solo, never GQ so i dont know about any of the supposed 12 Anni sync drops or whatever, but the core issue will be unresolved by reducing the players. Stomps are inevitable, a game which rewards focus fire will always be like this, the more mechs you have shooting one mech the better. if you lose a few mechs its practically all over, multiplicative firepower decimates whats left. this is an issue.

However 8v8 will not address this problem. its beyond rare, beyond rare, to have 12 mechs shooting one mech, hell even having 7 mechs shoot one is pretty unheard of (solo q not group) outside of CW. even there having more than 10 mechs shoot one isnt common.

i have no interest in making the game smaller, i had (naively) hoped this game would advance to the point of having 16v16 or more, not reducing it because the rest of the game is to hard to code.

Which brings me to my final point. as far as i can tell most people seem to want 8v8 due to the fact PGI couldnt balance their way out of a paper bag, not because it is inherently better or anything. kinda sad that simplifying the game is more viable and achievable than just balancing it

Edited: are people having problems getting games in a 'reasonable' time? and what is considered reasonable. i think anything under 5 minutes is fine personally.

Secondly, reducing bukkits doesnt work as we have seen before, the exact same as CW the reason people arent leaving isnt because of wait times, so trying to reduce them by reducing the amount of players at once wont help. it will be like CW all over again, they will reduce the number to attempt to alleviate wait times, causing some of those who liked it to leave, without addressing the core issues, the wait times will increase again. Leaving a mode that is smaller than before and has the same problems fundamentally.

Edited: I could accept solo queue staying 12v12 and group queue going 8v8 as i dont touch group queue

TL:DR 8v8 is a bandaid on a gunshot, it wont help and will likely make it messier later on

16/16 will never happen on this engine.

Draw-calls have been at their limit for a long time. Hence why even the best computers out there can’t run Solaris City well.

[Tamerlin]

If we keep the separate single and group queues, I like the idea of single being 8v8 and group being 12v12. However, there would still need to be map and economy work, so I'm not sure it would be worth it.

[Lotspeech]

What if you created a competitive game mode that was solo queue? It can be 8v8 and will be far more accessible to newer less social players while still offering the competitive thrill that we all love. Something like ranked play with Elo and different stages that you can reach to show your prowess as a good team player since carrying a team isn't realistic

[Sereglach]

8v8 compared to 12v12 is a situation I am legitimately torn over. While I'm not averse to reverting back to 8v8 QP matches, right now I'd much rather see the developer efforts that'd need to be devoted to it put to better use elsewhere. There's a number of major issues I'd want to see addressed before I could fully support a shift back; and the biggest reason for the concern is due to the fact that PGI's extremely limited developer resources would be stretched even thinner than they already are, when there are a lot of pressing issues that need to be fixed/addressed.

I'd rather see gameplay balancing efforts that'd need to go into the economy and game mode re-balance focused on weapon balance (please fix flamers into fixed flat values). However, fix Flamers and fully address the "Un-Funning of MWO" issues and I'd be more up to a switch back to 8v8. You're a small studio with an even smaller balance team . . . that's one thing to NOT stretch thin, please.

I'd rather see UI work actually go into things that have been talked about for ages, like functional mech screens (like the ones for Ammo and Heat Sinks that we had in beta on earlier mechs). That's not even getting into things like the colorblind improvements that people with said issues still talk about (there's 3 main types of colorblindness, MWO should have 3 forms of colorblind support) or improvements to HUD optimization (still I think one of the biggest resource draws in playing the game) or continued QOL improvements for general gameplay and specific game modes (enemy mechs showing on scoreboard once identified and with alpha-designation is a big one that comes to mind). Address those issues and I wouldn't be upset about the UI resources being diverted to shifting QP back to 8v8.

I'd rather see the map team's efforts focused on new maps instead of readjusting/resizing current maps into 8v8 compatible regions. However, if you can make new big maps that are compatible with 12v12 FW AND have smaller boundary zones for 8v8 QP then I think that would alleviate the issue. If you could pull a page from HBS Battletech book wherein you have one map with multiple sets of boundaries for "battle arenas" then I think you'd be on to something big here.

As a combination of Matchmaker and Gameplay balance, if we can actually get guaranteed 2/2/2/2 matchmaking with balance fixes that encourage the majority of people to play more than Heavies (by far the most popular weight class). Better gameplay balance across all weight classes and returning to the beta days of Light<Medium<Heavy<Assault<Light rock-paper-scissors-esque gameplay would be a huge boon regardless of whether we shift back to 8v8 or stay 12v12, but I think the dynamics will show through stronger in 8v8 gameplay once addressed.

Even though nearly all of the concerns I have listed above would have notable impacts on the game regardless of whether QP is 8v8 or 12v12, my biggest concern is -again- the developer resources and how they'd need to be spread thin to make an 8v8 shift happen and how that'd slow progress on all of the above issues.

I think we should give it some time, address the above issues with all of the developer resources that should -purportedly- be freed up now that Solaris 7 is released; and then look at whether the 8v8 shift is the best for QP after that's been done/addressed.

[Mr Pataks]

Solo queue is fine does not need to be 8v8

Group queue is better with 12v12 but allow solo to opt in to group queue to fill in gaps and allow quicker matchmaking

Let us know how many groups are searching for game and how many players are in each group (like it was on faction play)

I don't want to be searching for 15+ minutes unless I know there are other groups waiting too.

If we can fix the matchmaker group size jigsaw ourselves that will resolve the really low pop looooooong search times.

Information is ammunition, at the moment we just have to click search and wait and pray we will eventually find a game before everybody decides to go do something else. I don't think 8v8 fixes any of the problems I've mentioned.

Edited by Mr Pataks, 06 June 2018 - 09:16 PM.

[kickymcassington]

Please no. You are asking if you should dedicate valuable time and money to downgrading the game. Spend actual dev time undoing the hard work you've already done. No. instead spend that time optimizing the game and adding new features not removing them.
How about some co-op missions done in the style of your fantastic tutorial/academy.
How about adding some support vehicles and other rolls to the game? I know you guy's have heard of MWLL, you should take a page from their book and flesh out the vehicles available.
How about doing anything other then lowering the player count. i mean.. i can't express just how bad that would be..

I'm a returning player who's only back because of the more forgiving grind and all the progress that was made while i was away. Don't undo that progress.

Edited by kickymcassington, 06 June 2018 - 09:19 PM.

[Jatix]

YES PLEASE!!!!

I've been playing since beta and love the game. and I'm not even a battletech lore guy or anything. My friend just showed me the game during beta (hes the Bt boi) and I just love the game, its one of a kind.

The problem, is I have felt liek the game has just been going downhill fun wise for a long time. Gameplay has just been getting more and more aids is the best way to put it. Before I could just play fun mechs and play well. Not anymore. Now I feel like I need to play my super cringe meta builds or meta spinoffs to perform really well. and even then, its usualyl a stomp and you usually peek and die virtually instantly.

Time to kill is just too fast. Burst is too strong. Mechs are too strong now. Back in beta there were some issues but there was no 100 ton 6 ac and mega burst clan energy boats and stuff. The damage potential is just too high.

8v8 would help that, less people to all focus you.

Also 8v8 may help match making. will be a bit easier to carry a game. Not a giant difference, but should be better.

I would also love if small premades could not get in the premade queue like before. Is really hard to play with my friend and have fun because match making for small premades is horrific.

[NocturnalBeast]

kickymcassington, on 06 June 2018 - 09:18 PM, said:

Please no. You are asking if you should dedicate valuable time and money to downgrading the game.

Considering that Quick Play used to be 8v8, it probably is not going to take much time or money to roll it back to 8v8.

[Shadowomega1]

I say, let's give it a month or two of live server testing for solo que just to see how it goes. Might improve the matchmaking by splitting up the high tier players a bit more from the average tier of players, it might not. We could even see a performance boost in hit detection with less shots to track.

[r00t b33r]

Another classic MWO impasse...

A.) Switch it just cuz.

Pro: Quicker matchmaking
Con: The same people that blame the rest of the team for everything will come to realize [just like in Solaris 7] that they, in fact, are team players and they really aren't that good after all. The blame-the-team solution for losing becomes less of a valid excuse. They'll return to these forums saying the game is broken and 12v12 was the way to go >> cuz "lore"

B.) Don't switch it cuz I'm sure it'll ruin everything and the usual crapstorm of angsty commentary from the forum warriors. I'd prefer to keep it 12v12 myself but can see the benefits of both.

The best solution is doing both by keeping 12v12 while making 8v8 an option. Similar to checking/unchecking NA/Euro/Pacific servers. If it works, it works. If not, then remove it.

[Chatin The Skunk]

Eh... personally I prefer the chaos that 12v12 brings and it's part of the reason I love games that offer 16v16. You can run around mostly unnoticed and cause havoc while everyone is focusing on someone else.

Though. I wouldn't mind an 8v8 as an OPTION for QP.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

Sure 8v8 could work, just should also consider other ideas, as I feel that there are unstated ideas in changing balance with this sort of switch, as it was mentioned the the Economy would get tweaked.

So some ideas to go along with such changes:

• It was stated earlier, but I'll restate, allowing a toggle as we can choose Region for Retaining 12 v 12 would be welcome or instead available in the Map Voting to choose from.
  
• Starting Heat Containment, reduce value from 30 down to 14, raise Dissipation.
  
  • Consider idea of Heatsinks raising 1.0 Capacity each, with further Dissipation compensation.
• Convert Alpha Strike Keybind into Target Interlock Circuit toggle, for storing multiple Weapon Group combos.
  
  • Idea being able to have specifically assigned Weapon Groups to certain Keys and being able to swap what weapons are available to fire with said keybinds.
• Convergence Firing Variables - currently we can fire any weapon group and have perfect convergence on the fly.
  
  • The idea here is using the TIC and existing Fixed equipment Sensors to have a role in how weapons fire into our crosshairs at various Ranges.
    
  • Sure weapons have gimbals and a range profile, the interplay here would be that there would be more Spread in Weapons Fire, and Players would be able to set Targeting Range preferences on preferred engagement range.
    
  • A player wants to poke at long range, and so the Techs have optimized the Mech and Targeting systems for that, so that at tighter fighting ranges, there'd be a need to compensate, such as setting a TIC setting and even going into Skill point investments having a role here.
    
  • Weapons that have larger energy draw could have slower convergence, have spread due to taxing the Mech to pinpoint all weapons. A weapon like the Gauss holds this charge in itself, thus why it causes damage to the mech wielding the weapon system.
• PSR Tiers - Increase the number of tiers and relabel them. For example, have seven to nine Tiers, and have a different means of climbing up and down the Tier Ladder and/or rate Climb.
  
  • Idea being that if there can be increased separation from the Top to brand new players, and being at 8v8 in Quick Play, could allow for a different sense in how that system works, using essentially what already exists with the current numbers there are for various track-able statistics.

I hope something further can be considered, and so we'll see how this vote goes and what more can be done for MWO in the future.

[Prototelis]

I'd rather have a Delta lance.

Less players means lesser skilled players are going to have more impact.

Instances of 12 v 1 focus are incredibly rare, the reality is you're getting 2-6 people focusing a target most of the time. That isn't going to change with less players.

Edit; I think 8v8 with same mech ticket respawns as a faction play mode would be better. Makes those objectives matter.

Edited by Prototelis, 06 June 2018 - 09:46 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

KodiakGW, on 06 June 2018 - 07:22 PM, said:

Stop debating people. It's not nearly 100% Yes, so it is not going to change. They already made it quite clear that unless the poll it overwhelmingly in favor, it won't.

At least they addressed it without me having to promise buying anything. Glad to save my money.

Yep and it won't go in favour with just a "do you want 8v8" post.

It does nothing to explain (IF) the required PSR fixes will be done in conjunction or otherwise. If this poll and the premise behind it was properly sorted out, things might go a different way.

But then we have a stock mode tournament, nothing will ever surprise me again.

[Brain Cancer]

On map size: It's true, many maps are so large we don't even use the whole thing.

It's to the point where you could legitimately have Polar Highlands A and Polar Highlands B and still have enough room for 12v12, much less 8v8. Splitting maps like that up and randomizing which Polar you got might make things a bit more interesting.

[Em3r4ld]

8v8 and bring back the old versions of frozen city and forest colony at the very least!



oh and we mostly need UMR-IIC still.

[Big Tin Man]

I voted yes, on the sole condition that FP gets fixed first.

[Thrudvangar]

Paul Inouye, on 01 June 2018 - 01:22 PM, said:

A switch to 8v8 will also impact on our ability to address other parts of the game such as Faction Play.

so everything else keeps you away from adressing faction play since YEARS?....
thats a joke. a bad joke.

Leave quickplay alone and get your asses into faction play.. GOD DAMNIT. this game mode has so many issues and it seems that there's nobody in your company caring about... Now you say making 8v8 will keep you away from adressing and fixing faction play issues?

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA