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Please Open Solo Queue To Small Groups


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#561 McGoat

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Posted 24 June 2018 - 11:26 AM

I have never waited 10m for a GQ match. Rarely see "8-12" man groups, and when I do they're not worth worrying over. Stop trying to make YOUR game easier and adapt.

*We did wait 10m for a compQ match last night :)

Edited by McGoat, 24 June 2018 - 11:29 AM.


#562 Dogstar

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Posted 24 June 2018 - 11:29 AM

View PostMcGoat, on 24 June 2018 - 11:26 AM, said:

I have never waited 10m for a GQ match. Rarely see "8-12" man groups, and when I do they're not worth worrying over. Stop trying to make YOUR game easier and adapt.


Well aren't you lucky to be playing at a prime time. Not everyone has it easy.

#563 MischiefSC

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Posted 24 June 2018 - 11:46 AM

View PostDogstar, on 24 June 2018 - 11:21 AM, said:


You keep saying the same wrong thing over and over, it's just your opinion, not a fact or even an assumption - nobody is fooled


Waits in GQ are intermittent - waits in QP are too. Only during certain times. The main complaint that keeps coming up is "getting stomped" and "not fun".

Waits affect everyone. At no point are people really talking about making waits shorter or how to address queue times. Just getting 2mans into QP so they can play vs pugs.

Sorry, gonna have to play to the same standards everyone else is held to.

#564 Chortles

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Posted 24 June 2018 - 11:53 AM

View PostDogstar, on 24 June 2018 - 11:21 AM, said:


You keep saying the same wrong thing over and over, it's just your opinion, not a fact or even an assumption - nobody is fooled

So what is the reason for supporting groups in solo queue?

#565 Vxheous

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Posted 24 June 2018 - 11:54 AM

View PostVesper11, on 24 June 2018 - 10:45 AM, said:

While it's true there's ONE EASY SOLUTION THAT WILL DRIVE YOU NUTS (or another similar tabloid headline), which is to limit GQ to 4 players, less syncdrops, less stomps, faster matches and possibly even some resemblance of (tonnage) balance from no-MM! (plus some freaking reasoning as I find it hard to believe that people have so many friends playing the same niche game at the same time after work)


People know people that know other people. Large groups are often made up of several smaller groups of ingame friends/real life friends. They all end up in the same unit over time, with the same access to discord/ts. When people log in, they join up to one of these programs and link up with an existing group. How is that hard to believe, unless you're the anti-social type that have never done such a thing.

View PostDogstar, on 24 June 2018 - 11:21 AM, said:


You keep saying the same wrong thing over and over, it's just your opinion, not a fact or even an assumption - nobody is fooled


I've changed my mind, let 2 mans into solo queue, it'll just prove my point about 2 mans being OP, and not actually making it any better for those complaining that Group queue is too hard. Just like how the pundits on the forum thought good players are only good players cause of "meta crutch". EmP is 19-1 with stock mechs in comp queue, where are the pundits now? We're still rolling teams 8-0, 8-1

Edited by Vxheous, 24 June 2018 - 11:54 AM.


#566 The Lighthouse

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Posted 24 June 2018 - 11:57 AM

How is this thread still going on? 29 pages!

Are you guys that desperate and hellbent on killing QP as well? Only mode that we have reasonable population? You guys really want this game to die?

While everyone is hating PGI, I don't think this is a great idea.

#567 Johnathan Tanner

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Posted 24 June 2018 - 12:10 PM

View PostThe Lighthouse, on 24 June 2018 - 11:57 AM, said:

How is this thread still going on? 29 pages!

This looks like a job for spiderman.

#568 Johnathan Tanner

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Posted 24 June 2018 - 12:17 PM

Posted Image

#569 MischiefSC

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Posted 24 June 2018 - 12:20 PM

View PostVxheous, on 24 June 2018 - 11:54 AM, said:


People know people that know other people. Large groups are often made up of several smaller groups of ingame friends/real life friends. They all end up in the same unit over time, with the same access to discord/ts. When people log in, they join up to one of these programs and link up with an existing group. How is that hard to believe, unless you're the anti-social type that have never done such a thing.



I've changed my mind, let 2 mans into solo queue, it'll just prove my point about 2 mans being OP, and not actually making it any better for those complaining that Group queue is too hard. Just like how the pundits on the forum thought good players are only good players cause of "meta crutch". EmP is 19-1 with stock mechs in comp queue, where are the pundits now? We're still rolling teams 8-0, 8-1


Comp queue will probably get more serious after everyone gets more practice but anyone who thought different teams would go to Vancouver was dreaming.

Will be more brawling. Not sure we will see LRMs in the final 16 though. Maybe. Also getting to see every map will be cool. Rubelite is ******* HOT. Ironically the peep builds do better there than on Canyon.

People want to pretend that there's this one trick that they can do and win more without having to actually change or improve. That if they can just 2man vs pugs, or if those good teams have to run stock mechs....

You look at how the matches are shaking out the teams that have beaten other teams before still do so. Sure, the matches look different but the player skill is still the same. Two bads in QP will have their PSR value inflated and play against better players who will destroy them. Good players in a 2man will coordinate, focus fire and help direct their pugs and dominate matches way more than they can solo.

The pugs get ****** either way.

We have made countless changes to help the "casuals". None of it has ever helped and just made the overall game worse. **** them, all these changes do is make having to carry them more of a hassle.

#570 Bishop Steiner

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Posted 24 June 2018 - 12:21 PM

View Posta le Roi, on 14 June 2018 - 07:51 AM, said:

Is it written in the laws of physics that it has to be called "solo" queue?

No, in fact the game UI makes no such distinction. It's just "Quick Play" whether you join solo or in a group. The division to solo and group queues is an underlying dynamic that can obviously be changed - and should be changed at least for groups smaller than a full lance.

Um. Yes.

Since the point is for random players who either can't, or don't wan't to be on TS or Discord, etc, can group up with a bunch of other randoms and communicate as much or as little as they desire, facing the same.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 24 June 2018 - 12:22 PM.


#571 Vesper11

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Posted 24 June 2018 - 05:16 PM

View PostMischiefSC, on 24 June 2018 - 10:54 AM, said:

Nobody here is fooled.

Nobody here is fooled by logical arguments, not on your watch!

View PostChortles, on 24 June 2018 - 10:58 AM, said:

Then you will get people who complains that they can't do a three-man group and will go on the forums demanding to play in solo queues instead.

Okay, SPESHUL4U: GP limited to up to 4 people a group.

View PostMcGoat, on 24 June 2018 - 11:26 AM, said:

I have never waited 10m for a GQ match. Rarely see "8-12" man groups, and when I do they're not worth worrying over. Stop trying to make YOUR game easier and adapt.

*We did wait 10m for a compQ match last night Posted Image

"because I live in %countryname% which is whole world and don't experience those problems it means no one actually has those problems"

View PostVxheous, on 24 June 2018 - 11:54 AM, said:

People know people that know other people. Large groups are often made up of several smaller groups of ingame friends/real life friends. They all end up in the same unit over time, with the same access to discord/ts. When people log in, they join up to one of these programs and link up with an existing group. How is that hard to believe, unless you're the anti-social type that have never done such a thing.

The most common argument for those big groups I saw is "I want to play with friends" but it's not large group of friends, it's a number of small groups that could easily play with 4 player limit. So, why not put a 4man/lance size limit on GQ?

View PostBishop Steiner, on 24 June 2018 - 12:21 PM, said:

Um. Yes.

Since the point is for random players who either can't, or don't wan't to be on TS or Discord, etc, can group up with a bunch of other randoms and communicate as much or as little as they desire, facing the same.

And GP completely stupid MM/tonnage/syndrops/balance/etc has nothing to do with this, rrright.

#572 MischiefSC

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Posted 24 June 2018 - 05:34 PM

The logic of your argument keeps coming back to two things -

1. You want to play in a group vs pugs because you think you'll win more, which is more fun for you. This ignores not only the realities of that not being true and how negatively it impacts solo queue.

2. You claim it's mostly about long queue times in group queue, which everyone who isn't also complaining out losing in group queue doesn't see plus that the vast majority of groups in group queue are 2-4mans and that coincidentally your solution to queue times (that would impact everyone not just 2mans and be solved a variety of other ways), the only one you will accept, also just by total coincidence be tied directly to #1.

Your arguments are only logical if we accept that your desire to play in a 2man vs pugs in the hopes you'll win more without having to actually get better at the game is logical. Hence we are not going to see eye to eye. Putting 2mans in QP as a proposed solution to reported long waits is either a bad idea on its face (worse queue for the entire group queue otherwise, myriad of negatives for QP and as such an incredibly selfish solution for a problem that has only a few people in this thread reporting it) or it's flat out disingenuous.

If your complaint is off hours queue times - which, again, as someone who plays a lot both in Pacific and Euro times on weekdays I never see save in FW and other people in this thread have said they don't see but then again they're not trying to justify issue #1 - there's other, more holistic and useful ways to look at low population driving queue issues.

Yet that's not what this thread is about. Just that the real reason is so bad it gets laughed at on its face so mid thread suddenly it's all about the queue times.

#573 Khobai

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Posted 24 June 2018 - 05:48 PM

View PostVxheous, on 24 June 2018 - 11:54 AM, said:

People know people that know other people. Large groups are often made up of several smaller groups of ingame friends/real life friends. They all end up in the same unit over time, with the same access to discord/ts. When people log in, they join up to one of these programs and link up with an existing group. How is that hard to believe, unless you're the anti-social type that have never done such a thing.

I've changed my mind, let 2 mans into solo queue, it'll just prove my point about 2 mans being OP, and not actually making it any better for those complaining that Group queue is too hard. Just like how the pundits on the forum thought good players are only good players cause of "meta crutch". EmP is 19-1 with stock mechs in comp queue, where are the pundits now? We're still rolling teams 8-0, 8-1


2 mans would not be OP in solo queue lmao. especially when its limited to one 2 man per team. And both teams would be guaranteed to get a 2 man.

and bragging about how EmP rolls other teams so easily just further reinforces what the problem with group queue is. Basically youre just supporting the whole argument that group queue is toxic because of the one sided matchups. nobody wants to get rolled by teams like EmP and never have a chance. it isnt fun. especially for new players who just want to play with a friend and learn the game.

theres no reason not to allow casual players/new players to play with a friend in solo queue so they dont have to worry about getting stomped by competitive groups in GQ. this game would have much better new player retention if it allowed new players to play with a friend without getting slaughtered in GQ.

at one time PGI was even talking about doing a mentor program in the game to help teach new players. But something like that could never work if youre thrown in group queue lol. not that a mentor program would even help at this point, the games lost too many players, and can barely hold on to the ones it has left.

View PostMischiefSC, on 24 June 2018 - 05:34 PM, said:

Your arguments are only logical if we accept that your desire to play in a 2man vs pugs in the hopes you'll win more without having to actually get better at the game is logical.


You have it backwards. The desire for 2 mans in solo queue isnt to gain an advantage over pugs. Its to lose the disadvantage of having to play vs 6-8 man competitive groups in group queue.

Edited by Khobai, 24 June 2018 - 06:12 PM.


#574 justcallme A S H

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Posted 24 June 2018 - 05:55 PM

It's not just EmP that roll over teams with 2-4mans in GroupQ.

Many, many players in just a 2-man will do it.

If I drop with any number of guys I have on my friends list the enemy is going to have a bad time more often than not. Vx isn't bragging, he is simply stating a fact of where it is at, something many here (including you) are just unable to see. No idea how or why you cannot see but then that is why the game has good and not-so-good players really.

#575 MischiefSC

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Posted 24 June 2018 - 06:03 PM

View PostKhobai, on 24 June 2018 - 05:48 PM, said:


2 mans would not be OP in solo queue lmao. especially when its limited to one 2 man per team. And both teams would be guaranteed to get a 2 man.

and bragging about how EmP rolls other teams so easily just further reinforces what the problem with group queue is. Basically youre just supporting the whole argument that group queue is toxic because of the one sided matchups. nobody wants to get rolled by teams like EmP and never have a chance. it isnt fun.

theres no reason not to allow casual players to play with a friend in solo queue so they dont have to worry about getting stomped by competitive groups. this game would have better new player retention if it allowed new players to play with a friend without getting slaughtered in group queue.


No.

Way more than EMP are pointing out why the idea is bad. Like 100 times at this point.

If you don't understand why grouped up players playing vs pugs, even a couple, is a balance issue then I'm not sure how to even begin to explain the details. If you think just having 2mans on each side fixes this it's even more headshake not getting it.

Teamwork is a big deal in this game. I know you know this. If matchmaking was effective even with pugs this thread wouldn't exist. Every single example of related data from when we mixed groups and pugs to even small teams VS pugs in FW says the opposite of what you're trying to claim.

#576 Khobai

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Posted 24 June 2018 - 06:15 PM

View PostMischiefSC, on 24 June 2018 - 06:03 PM, said:

No.

Way more than EMP are pointing out why the idea is bad. Like 100 times at this point.

If you don't understand why grouped up players playing vs pugs, even a couple, is a balance issue then I'm not sure how to even begin to explain the details. If you think just having 2mans on each side fixes this it's even more headshake not getting it.

Teamwork is a big deal in this game. I know you know this. If matchmaking was effective even with pugs this thread wouldn't exist. Every single example of related data from when we mixed groups and pugs to even small teams VS pugs in FW says the opposite of what you're trying to claim.


a single 2 man on each team is not going to radically affect the outcome of solo queue.

a 3-4 man would. But im not saying allow 3-4 mans in solo queue. just 2 mans, and only one per team.

View PostMischiefSC, on 24 June 2018 - 06:03 PM, said:

Every single example of related data from when we mixed groups and pugs to even small teams VS pugs in FW says the opposite of what you're trying to claim.


you mean the non-existent data youve made up and cant provide sources for?

because allowing 2 mans in solo queue has never been tried. there is no data for it. and if 2 good players wanna play together in solo queue they can already sync drop anyway, so its not like the game prevents it 100% anyway.


And what I do know is ive tried many times to get friends to play the game, and group queue has repeatedly been a bad experience for them as newer players. Newer players should not be forced into group queue just because they want to play with a friend.

This game has trouble holding onto new players. Why continue to make that experience bad for them?

Edited by Khobai, 24 June 2018 - 06:26 PM.


#577 justcallme A S H

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Posted 24 June 2018 - 06:25 PM

View PostKhobai, on 24 June 2018 - 06:15 PM, said:


a single 2 man on each team is not going to radically affect the outcome of solo queue.



Just because a 2-man comprising of someone and yourself wouldn't (And there I 100% agree with you).

However that does not mean for a second that it's not going to happen when there are actually solid players in a 2-man, who will just wipe the floor. It will happen because I do it now in GroupQ if I play with any number of people I have on my friends list.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 24 June 2018 - 06:44 PM.


#578 Khobai

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Posted 24 June 2018 - 06:33 PM

View Postjustcallme A S H, on 24 June 2018 - 06:25 PM, said:

Just because a 2-man comprising of someone and yourself else wouldn't (And there I 100% agree with you).


I like how you always repeat exactly what I just said and try to pass it off as your own idea.

I just got done saying when I group up with my friends they struggle in group queue. Because theyre not the best players since theyre relatively new to the game.

Its not about trying to get one up on pugs. Its about making the game experience better for newer players. Thrusting inexperienced players into group queue just to play with a friend is a surefire way to get them to quit the game.

View Postjustcallme A S H, on 24 June 2018 - 06:25 PM, said:

However that does not mean for a second that it's not going to happen when there are actually solid players in a 2-man, who will just wipe the floor. It will happen because I do it now in GroupQ if I play with any number of people I have on my friends list.


like I said, two good players can already sync drop in solo queue. The game doesnt stop that now anyway. So whats your point?

Just let them play together in solo queue instead of having to go through the absurdity of syncdropping.

Edited by Khobai, 24 June 2018 - 06:38 PM.


#579 justcallme A S H

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Posted 24 June 2018 - 06:37 PM

View PostKhobai, on 24 June 2018 - 06:33 PM, said:


like I said, two good players can already sync drop in solo queue. The game doesnt stop that now anyway. So whats your point?


A 50% chance to not end up on the same side is what stops that...

Dude the fact you cannot see how unbalanced this would make it (overall), is a concern.

But then you are only thinking about yourself here as you often do. Not what is good for MWO, and allowing 2mans, into SoloQ, is not good.

#580 Cloves

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Posted 24 June 2018 - 06:38 PM

With sync dropping, they will frequently end up on opposite sides, if even in the same match. Thus making it harder to stack teams.





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