518 replies to this topic

[admiralbenbow123]

IllCaesar, on 08 July 2018 - 06:57 AM, said:

So you reduce the power of CERMLs by 25% to discourage boating but you increase the ghost heat cap on CERLLs to four to ensure that no IS mech will ever be able to win large laser trades because apparently clans didn't have enough advantage at range.Now we're gonna have all the clan mechs trying to boat large lasers and staying at an even further range because their medium lasers have been nerfed into uselessness so playing at shorter ranges is off the table.

The game is called MechWarrior Online, not Polar Highlands Warrior Online. I try not to be a monday morning quarterback because I know this ain't as easy as it looks but come on. I have eighty mechs and only seven of them are clan mechs. I would benefit greatly from this numbers but I don't want these changes because they'll make the game significantly less exciting and diverse.You're not destroying the meta by attacking clan medium lasers, you're creating an entirely new one where there are significantly less variety among clan mechs. I'm almost entirely IS player but I don't want to play against the only few handful of clan builds left in the game that are viable and soft nerf two entire weightclasses.

I am a mostly IS player myself as well but I totally agree with you. I also don't understand why er smalls got a damage reduction. In my opinion, as of right now er smalls are right where they should be in terms of damage.

[WarmasterRaptor]

Yeonne Greene, on 07 July 2018 - 08:01 PM, said:

Negative. We're here because a vocal few 'Mechdads think Clans having an unsustainable, gimmicky, 94-point alpha capability is OP and certain loyalist IS bads think that the more average 64-point Clan alphas that take 1.125 seconds to get off are OP compared to the 57-point IS alphas that take only 0.935 seconds.

Basically, we're here because players who are not only bad at the game, but are also unwilling to learn how to improve at the game, are crying fowl over what is and has been a non-issue for even moderately competent players.

Well, as usual, the "salt must flow" is true as always I guess

I'm not following too much the cries of woe normally, I only see the pitchforks out in thread like these, so I admit I'm missing a side of the coin

It is laughable that people would complain on a 7dmg difference over the span of 0.19 seconds, on a very short list of particular mech. Are we sure that it's the actual complain and goal to fix this??

Still, wouldn't ED definitely help with both sides crying on each others OP alphas??

[Kho_Eddorum]

Pfff... 94 damage alpha? Please. Real men use the 235 damage alpha.

https://mwo.smurfy-n...526abe87624a077

[MovinTarget]

Lets bang the crap out of the pts and see for ourselves. Do I think this is necessary? Not really, but I absolutely want usage of the PTS for things like this.

The fact is PGI has been trying to be all things to all players for YEARS and there are simply too many moving parts for their approach.

[WarmasterRaptor]

Scintilla, on 08 July 2018 - 07:40 AM, said:

Pfff... 94 damage alpha? Please. Real men use the 235 damage alpha.

https://mwo.smurfy-n...526abe87624a077

I... I...I need to see that fire... We need to have a video of this!

[HenktheTank]

#FireChris Pls get some guys who can do proper balancing this is just a joke

[MovinTarget]

HenktheTank, on 08 July 2018 - 08:22 AM, said:

#FireChris Pls get some guys who can do proper balancing this is just a joke

Terms like "proper balancing" are part of the problem as there are so many inherent interpretations of what is "proper balance".

Fact is that when many cry for balance that not what others hear, what is heard is "my situation/preferred approach is not performing the way I expect it, fix it!"

Balance would be that you could arrive at a point that anything can be equally effective and ineffective depending on factors of equal weight"

That is a ridiculously stupid goal with the level of complexity not only in this game, but its source material that was NEVER designed for an RTS environment.

It cannot happen without something else getting sacrificed, and since there is a contigent that expects direct TT implementation, another that wants an MW FPS emphasis, role players, and the ever present disgruntled anarchist... nobody wants to cede what scraps they have.

This is why balance is not a truly worthy standalone goal, because it is not reasonably possible.

The more realistic goal is balance *in context* of a specific sector of the game, whether its QP/GQP, FP, Comp, or S7...

Edited by MovinTarget, 08 July 2018 - 08:40 AM.

[Borg 4]

This just goes WAY too far, clan lrms are a bigger problem right now. I'm a diehard IS player, but i don't want to see clan weapons nerfed down this far below lore. I realize TT to shooter isn't a one to one conversion, not by far, but the clan stuff should just be better and the matchmaker should acomidate that. this is going to be devastating to faction warfare. Can't we just have powerful, sensible clan tech on clan mechs and have them go 10 v 12 against the IS on faction warfare, and have the match maker balance mixed teams for quick play?

[IllCaesar]

admiralbenbow123, on 08 July 2018 - 07:21 AM, said:

I am a mostly IS player myself as well but I totally agree with you. I also don't understand why er smalls got a damage reduction. In my opinion, as of right now er smalls are right where they should be in terms of damage.

Who the **** do they think they're going to hurt by nerfing the clan ER small lasers, the Deathstrike?

Newsflash, light and medium mechs take small lasers and mediums lasers because it's all they can fit because they're so small. They don't have much weight for tons of big weapons. For the most part for lights and mediums they can boat:

a) Multiples of small weapons such MGs, Small Lasers, and Medium Lasers.

One large laser with one or two tons of backup weapons

c) Two large energy weapons

or d) A mixture of smalll missile weapons (SRM4s) with small energy weapons

There's outliers of course but that's what most light and medium mechs can run. They overwhelmingly rely upon small and medium lasers, far more than any other weight class. Many of them run only small and medium lasers because they can't lug around an AC20, actually do well with the weapon, and actually have enough ammo for it to last the match. These sorts of laser buffs will be harmless to assault mechs that can mount four AC10s or two gauss rifles or four PPCs. A ton of the weight that clan lights and mediums have are taken up by jumpjets that can't be removed to give extra weight for weapons and a lot of them have Ferro so that even if they have the weight they couldn't fit a larger weapon anyways. How do you expect them to perform when you cut their weight down, cut their crit slots down, and nerf the only weapons they can boat.

I know a lot of folks will respond to this by saying that clan lights and overpowered compared to IS lights and yeah, there's truth to that. I love my TDK but it has four medium lasers that fall off if you sneeze at it and it can't go toe-to-toe with any clan lights except for the ones locked at 97 KPH. That isn't a justification for nerfing the entire clan weight class, it's a justification to give IS lights a hardpoint pass and a quirk pass.

[Dee Eight]

Noguchi-san, on 07 July 2018 - 06:45 PM, said:

Let us all switch to IS for some Month to show PGI that we ( THE onces left playing FP at all ) do feel about that nerf! ( A NERF THAT IT IS - NO BALANCING META **** AT ALL - just a simple CLAN NERF AT ALL! ) I called Chris once before a liar - now i do it again ( full aware of FREE SPEACH - my lawyer full by my SIDE! ).

You're clearly not aware of what the amendment on free speech actually says... it prevents governments (federal, state and local) in the USA from interfering in your freedom of speech. It does NOT apply to other individuals or private organizations. PGI is a privately owned company. You have no right to free speech here. Furthermore, PGI is a canadian company, and US citizens really have no rights in Canada. It also doesn't mean what you think it means if you're a canadian, because again it relates to government laws, not private company forum rules and further our charter does allow a whole slew of topics not protected as free speech.


https://en.wikipedia...e_United_States

https://en.wikipedia...peech_in_Canada

[Hiten Bongz]

Guess I need to finally make a forum post, as these proposed changes are just so completely ridiculous.

What a huge bumbling mistake this is becoming. It doesn't make ANY SENSE to nerf entire weapons just because you "think" people are running around with 94pt alpha mechs. You don't understand that you are nerfing the entire Clan mech lineup with this junk decision? Why don't you address your actual "concerns" with these mechs instead of NERF NERF NERFING an entire faction?

Please remove your head from your lower rear torso.

EDIT: I really had my eye on a Hellfire pack, but guess what...not going to be buying that or anything else if these "weapon nerfs" go through in any way - at least, not without an overall INCREASE in DPS and DPH. Looking at the hilarious proposed cERML values though, with more HEAT than DAMAGE (wtf are you thinking), I don't hold high hopes at all. Please use your heads on these supposed issues and prove me wrong.

Edited by Hiten Bongz, 08 July 2018 - 10:35 AM.

[SmokedJag]

Why is this including the ERSL and the MPL? These have nothing to do with the purported issue. That just nerfs other Clan machines.

And punishing the ERML so much (lower alpha AND lower DPS AND lower heat efficiency on an already heat-inefficient weapon) while buffing large laser arrays makes no sense at all. The Clan 'Mechs that can currently cause very high alpha damage and the ones that will benefit form being able to fire 4x ERLL/LPL are the same machines. Some others are also buffed by this, namely playstyles that everyone else hates. This will cause a large shift to extreme range because the extreme range damage that can be done with that sort of precision is very punishing.

The whole change here is badly considered and would be better resolved by changing the hardpoints on the Deathstrike, as that's the only one of the Clan assaults that is truly overpowered.

[tortcat]

clan guass rifle shake?? so then the one for IS will get it lo? I play both sides an this I just silly. STOP with all the nerfs...there are pros and cons to both sides which I why I bounce back and forth.

I am tired o you trying to make both sides the same...you are sucking the fun from the game (for me anyhow)

[Reno Blade]

I don't understand the big fuzz about the nerfs.
The lasers were the only weapons dealing more dmg on the Clan side.
There is no reason why this should even be the case!
It's just a fix for a decade-long mistake
Clans main difference is tonnage and slots, not damage - never should have been for lasers.

And then why should any mech be gimped now if the dmg is still the same (or higher) than the IS counterpart with the same weapons, but lighter and smaller, so that you can pack more DHS and Engine.

Ask nicely for a reduction in heat/cd and the changes will be acceptable and more than reasonable.

[Nema Nabojiv]

Reno Blade, on 08 July 2018 - 10:48 AM, said:

I don't understand the big fuzz about the nerfs.

Don't worry, most bads don't. The problem is PGI people are among them.

[PobbestGob]

Reno Blade, on 08 July 2018 - 10:48 AM, said:

I don't understand the big fuzz about the nerfs.
The lasers were the only weapons dealing more dmg on the Clan side.
There is no reason why this should even be the case!
It's just a fix for a decade-long mistake
Clans main difference is tonnage and slots, not damage - never should have been for lasers.

And then why should any mech be gimped now if the dmg is still the same (or higher) than the IS counterpart with the same weapons, but lighter and smaller, so that you can pack more DHS and Engine.

Ask nicely for a reduction in heat/cd and the changes will be acceptable and more than reasonable.

Only the ermed and the heavy large were really an issue, and these nerfs go way too far even for those. not only that, with the ghost heat change up to 3 large, the original mechs pgi meant to target (deathstrike and dire wolf) are actually better than before, not worse. 3 large lasers now makes their alpha only slightly lower, but they are much more effective at range. lighter mechs that don't have the tonnage for three larges get nerfed. and don't forget most IS mechs have the durability quirks to take the extra damage from clan, whereas clan generates more heat and has longer burn time in exchange for their higher alpha, that's the point of the two factions that gives each flavor and distinction. IS also has the heavy gauss so they can get these high 80pt alphas too, and for significantly less heat. also omnimechs with fixed components that usually have unnecessarily large engines, extra JJs, or inconvenient fixed slots already help to balance reduced clan slots and tonnage for equipment (nevermind the extra heat), and the only overperforming battlemechs on their side are the deathstrike and maybe hunchback iic.

Edited by Kill2Blit, 08 July 2018 - 11:23 AM.

[swohguy]

PGI is continuing to show they have IS bias, Nerfing the entire group of Clan Lasers because of one House on legs having a large alpha is stupid. Address the alpha on that mech perhaps?

Of course, this game is in it's death throes anyway. With all of the game hacks with Aimbots, Map hacks showing all mech postions all the time, and other obvious hacks, they should be more concerned about fixing the holes and banning the hackers instead of nerfing an entire class of Clan Weapons.

[PobbestGob]

swohguy, on 08 July 2018 - 11:40 AM, said:

PGI is continuing to show they have IS bias, Nerfing the entire group of Clan Lasers because of one House on legs having a large alpha is stupid. Address the alpha on that mech perhaps?

Of course, this game is in it's death throes anyway. With all of the game hacks with Aimbots, Map hacks showing all mech postions all the time, and other obvious hacks, they should be more concerned about fixing the holes and banning the hackers instead of nerfing an entire class of Clan Weapons.

I'd be interested in seeing videos of these hackers, never had reason to believe anyone was using hacks before myself. only ever saw a video of an aimbot once, and it didn't help the guy out much either.

[PraetorGix]

I thought about this a while and I cannot understand something. If they are afraid of Large lasers paired with Gauss, why don't they simply make impossible for a pilot to fire Gauss and lasers at the same time? I mean, Gauss already have an arbitrary, non-lore related limit of 2 at a time. How much hurt would it cause to add another of those arbitrary limits to the weapon? And I'm talking both techs, ESPECIALLY THE 25 DAMAGE monster that is HGauss.
If not, I really have to start thinking that the true intention here is not balance, but shaking the meta to sell us the next batch of mechpacks and heroes and MC to make us skill up said mechpacks...

[Turlo]

Perhaps the solution is to just get rid of the Clans altogether? Seems the issue is players are upset with the canonical Clan superiority. I'm sure the removal on the Clans won't have any impact on the player base.

Simply reset the game to 3025 (or 3039 for the younger generations) and have at it.