280 replies to this topic

[GBxGhostRyder]

OMG PGI why nerf the Bushwhacker its one of only a few IS mechs that can in fact compete with Clan mediums in Scouting mode. I think its a big mistake nerfing the Bushwhacker.

[Kurbeks]

Thank you for coming to sense and dropping recoil on C-Gauss rifle - Looks like it wasn't dropped. Should do same to IS HGR.

Also instead of dropping quriks on IS assults how about giving Clan assaults quirks - especially KDK and DW. ATM all 100 toners have mobility of potato and they all need quirks after engine decoupling destoyed them.

Edited by Kurbeks, 26 July 2018 - 06:49 AM.

[Jack Shayu Walker]

Congratulations, you’ve jumpstarted the heart of the cERML. These are great values for a test! However, the cERSL is still pointlessly nerfed, and your still being needlessly harsh on the 2 ton medium pulse laser. Beyond that by continuing to both allow large and medium lasers to both be fired at the same time -and- keeping the ghost he cap for the large lasers at 4, you’ve actually failed to achieve the goal you set for this PTS in the first place, namely removing 90+ pinpoint alphas.

Edited by Jack Shayu Walker, 26 July 2018 - 06:57 AM.

[SoulRcannon]

Does this PTS carry over the heat scale trigger changes for all cLL from PTS 1.0?

I feel like it's an important thing to for us to know. With PTS 1.1, I do appreciate the intent of increasing duration and returning some of the damage. However, some changes (some instances of clan laser, like the cLPL, cMPL duration change or the reduced range of the cERML) wouldn't really convey the fantasy of clan tech all that well. And again, these changes may render moot the intent of quashing some of the high alpha clan heavy/assault builds if they can adjust by boating more large lasers.

If some of these changes are balanced around the PTS 1.0 heat scale triggers, I would again ask that you at PGI please not consider implementing the cLL heat scale trigger changes and adjust accordingly.

Also I sincerely hope that the IS defensive quirk changes are slight; I'm not entirely sure the best time to test them is when this clan balance pass hasn't been finalised, but we'll see.

[Daurock]

Knee Jerk Reactions -

- It's good that they're testing other ways to bring down the power of clan laser vomit.
- A quick comparison to IS medium and large class lasers are getting me what looks like a roughly .5 longer duration over equivalent IS lasers, for roughly 10 to 25% more damage, depending on laser type. My knee jerk feel is that it will probably hurt the pulse lasers more, due to a much greater effect on the damage/tic rates, but I'll have to test it to see how it shakes out. (The pulse lasers do enjoy a much more significant range advantage than the ER lasers do over their IS cousins)

- Heavy lasers bring surprisingly high damage/tic rates when compared to other lasers now. People will hem and haw around "too long duration," but miss that they still do more damage/tic than equivalent ER-Class lasers. The heavy medium even gets a pretty significant heat buff under the new patch notes. (Clan heavy medium novas, go!)

Other thoughts -
- When compared to a "Pure" Duration nerf, or a "Pure" Damage nerf, this may be an appropriate middle ground.
- It's good to have you say in writing that IS Quirks are not meant to be "Baseline" across the board for nearly all IS mechs. It's good to know that the end goal is to have (some) un-quirked IS mechs be competitive. It also gives me a lot of peace of mind to know that if and when the laser vomit meta starts to shift heavily into brawling, the current crop of over-quirked IS mechs are next on the docket.

Edited by Daurock, 26 July 2018 - 07:25 AM.

[MovinTarget]

What would be interesting (though perhaps a bit frustrating) is if this was a blind test. If they somehow obfuscated the stats as much as possible so that instead of us theorycrafting, we'd have to just get out there and PLAY and see how things FEEL... I know no one would like this much, but bias being what it is, it is often difficult to get pure feedback...

[Infamati Et Obliterati]

I personally find it hilarious. I deliberately played a ANH-1X on PTS with dual HG. I literally face rolled the clan mechs testing the laser nerf.

The sad part is that the duration increase wont help the issue even with a reduction in armor quirks, because its just that much easier to twist the damage with nearly 2 second burn times.

I hope someone is keeping a side by side comparison of the laser stats. It's just plain hilarious that they've chosen this method to balance. When the problem can be directly correlated to the previous nerfs to agility, etc.

Common guys forcing a certain play style ruins the fun of the game... give MORE OPTIONs not less.

[MovinTarget]

True, there is a big difference between 60+ dmg on 1-2 components vs 3-4...

Kind of why I'd be curious about changing the penalties for boating to include a myriad of debuffs instead of just heat.

This way non boaters don't get penalized for firing a "reasonable" amount of lazors/missiles/daka, only those looking to do big alphas, That's the point of this right?

Then they could perhaps give some of the stock builds some "ghost penalty" forgiveness so perhaps the stock nova isn't so badly gimped for coming stock with 12 ERML... Or the Nova/Nova Cat... AS LONG AS THEY ARE STOCK THOUGH

Seriously, why penalize a weapon fired by its self when you *want* to penalize the firing of all teh lazors at the same time?

Edited by MovinTarget, 26 July 2018 - 08:07 AM.

[-Spectre]

I'm gonna puke.

At least some of the damage is back...not that I'll be able to use it. IS will basically get two volleys off while my weapons are still discharging.

They turned Clan lasers into obvious direct downgrades of IS lasers, but decided that was too op, so they needed to confuse some of the values, and then nerf them even worse. Great job. You do realize, right, that the IS ERLL already has the same duration as the CERSL? Ugh.

[Grus]

A Headless Chicken, on 25 July 2018 - 05:45 PM, said:

What is this Sliphnir? Is it a new hero?

To complement more unnecessary changes? Increasing duration AND reducing damage basically makes Clan lasers not worth taking. Time to try and find another playstyle - yes, try because most are dead. Thanks PGI.

ill take responsibility for the sliphnir changes. After testing the garbage clan lasers i droped in it exclusivly after. And omg was it a powerhouse. Quick, good armor, and dual havy gauss... oh.. yes... ( fyi, its the cyclops hero)

-Spectre, on 26 July 2018 - 08:18 AM, said:

I'm gonna puke.

At least some of the damage is back...not that I'll be able to use it. IS will basically get two volleys off while my weapons are still discharging.

They turned Clan lasers into obvious direct downgrades of IS lasers, but decided that was too op, so they needed to confuse some of the values, and then nerf them even worse. Great job. You do realize, right, that the IS ERLL already has the same duration as the CERSL? Ugh.

this is saying that they have the ability of complex thinking... #doubt

[Grus]

MovinTarget, on 26 July 2018 - 08:05 AM, said:

True, there is a big difference between 60+ dmg on 1-2 components vs 3-4...

Kind of why I'd be curious about changing the penalties for boating to include a myriad of debuffs instead of just heat.

This way non boaters don't get penalized for firing a "reasonable" amount of lazors/missiles/daka, only those looking to do big alphas, That's the point of this right?

Then they could perhaps give some of the stock builds some "ghost penalty" forgiveness so perhaps the stock nova isn't so badly gimped for coming stock with 12 ERML... Or the Nova/Nova Cat... AS LONG AS THEY ARE STOCK THOUGH

Seriously, why penalize a weapon fired by its self when you *want* to penalize the firing of all teh lazors at the same time?

this goes back to what i asked for a long time ago. Give stock omni mechs some quirks worth a damn if they use the 8pice. Otherwise 0 or minimal perks. That way it give you a reason to buy the mech rather than 1 and grab the pods you want.

[Quicks]

Why not just cancel the Clan division, seems its to much for PGI.

Clan mechs are being nerfed on every chance given,

[Weeny Machine]

Infamati Et Obliterati, on 26 July 2018 - 07:59 AM, said:

I personally find it hilarious. I deliberately played a ANH-1X on PTS with dual HG. I literally face rolled the clan mechs testing the laser nerf.

The sad part is that the duration increase wont help the issue even with a reduction in armor quirks, because its just that much easier to twist the damage with nearly 2 second burn times.

I hope someone is keeping a side by side comparison of the laser stats. It's just plain hilarious that they've chosen this method to balance. When the problem can be directly correlated to the previous nerfs to agility, etc.

Common guys forcing a certain play style ruins the fun of the game... give MORE OPTIONs not less.

Dual Heavy Gauss is broken in my opinion. 50 points of pinpoint damage means mostly instant death or crippling for lights and most mediums. Heavies can be 2-shotted.

It should be possible to fire only on heavy gauss per volley

[Grus]

Jack Shayu Walker, on 26 July 2018 - 06:54 AM, said:

Congratulations, you’ve jumpstarted the heart of the cERML. These are great values for a test! However, the cERSL is still pointlessly nerfed, and your still being needlessly harsh on the 2 ton medium pulse laser. Beyond that by continuing to both allow large and medium lasers to both be fired at the same time -and- keeping the ghost he cap for the large lasers at 4, you’ve actually failed to achieve the goal you set for this PTS in the first place, namely removing 90+ pinpoint alphas.

see i still cant get behind the whole " pinpoint" for clan lasers because of the duration. Its too easy to spread that damage over MULTIPLE componints. Ppc, gauss, IS ac's sure. 1 shot for full damage per shot, that in my opinion is pinpoint. If you want to argue, by deffinition anything can be pinpoint (save lrm/atm) if the target dosnt move, or is big enough/close enough.

[Kenoi]

Why not just have us all in the same equipment, and just give different skins? If you're trying to balance due to a 96 point alpha from an assault, you're going to (continue to) wreck medium/light mechs that rely on the Clan advantages to maintain their effectiveness.

[MovinTarget]

Quicks, on 26 July 2018 - 08:29 AM, said:

Why not just cancel the Clan division, seems its to much for PGI.

Clan mechs are being nerfed on every chance given,

Omnimechs have too much ability to be abused by those that know what they are doing vs people that aren't aware/aren't trying to be OP.

If PGI stuck with the original conceit "We want to discourage massive, repetitive alphas" then all they have to do is find a deterrent not rhyming with "benergy graw"

I know some people HATE the idea of introducing random consequences, but that is the great equalizer in the TT game... I firmly believe that the really good players will find a way to stay on top, but Alphas are supposed to be a last resort...

[Daurock]

Bush Hopper, on 26 July 2018 - 08:32 AM, said:

Dual Heavy Gauss is broken in my opinion. 50 points of pinpoint damage means mostly instant death or crippling for lights and most mediums. Heavies can be 2-shotted.

It should be possible to fire only on heavy gauss per volley

Truth be told, many assaults can drop a light in a single volley. 88 Point splat damage Mk2s or Scorches will have a similar effect on most mechs. Even the common quad LBX10 Annis can create a whole lotta pain to anything in its firing arc. Honestly, at this point, Unless I know the opposing pilot has exceptional aim, capable of consistently hitting the same spot on me, (a surprisingly rare trait), I'd probably rather face the twin gauss over a high alpha splat build. This is due to the massive dps advantage of SRMs/MRMs/LBXs over gauss, and the fact that they don't have to be precise to nearly cripple me.

I'm curious what my Splat MK2 is gonna be capable of, now that it won't have quite the armor disadvantage vs. things like the Anni and Fafnir.

Edited by Daurock, 26 July 2018 - 08:51 AM.

[PobbestGob]

MovinTarget, on 26 July 2018 - 08:45 AM, said:

Omnimechs have too much ability to be abused by those that know what they are doing vs people that aren't aware/aren't trying to be OP.

If PGI stuck with the original conceit "We want to discourage massive, repetitive alphas" then all they have to do is find a deterrent not rhyming with "benergy graw"

I know some people HATE the idea of introducing random consequences, but that is the great equalizer in the TT game... I firmly believe that the really good players will find a way to stay on top, but Alphas are supposed to be a last resort...

alphas should still be an option, just not a sustainable one. I'd like to see a proper heat system, with stricter but more predictable trade-offs to discourage high alpha spam while also giving experienced players a way to know their mech and get better using it, instead of random effects.

[Dran Dragore]

i´m sorry. Dont see any sence in this. After this the clans are even more boring. PGI, i dont understand you.

[Pelmeshek]

Thx for killing own game guys, u really do it faster in this year.