184 replies to this topic

[SFC174]

Marquis De Lafayette, on 28 December 2018 - 03:40 PM, said:

First of all: I thought I made clear I am not arguing “for” this change....so I am not going to attempt to argue it. I am just stating opinion on what PGI will do/not do with this. I have plenty of friends in the game who hate this change with the passion of a thousand suns. I just can’t get quite as worked up about it personally as both sides suffer in different ways.

I do think Clan laser vomit just got crushed (maybe crushed is too strong a word...but “made much riskier” for sure) by this change...i liked Clan laser vomit where it was, but the question of if/what PGI should do with it has been out there for years...to me this change was just another one of PGI’s ham-handed balance attempts on Clan laser vomit. The only reason they might hold the line is that many of the highest performing IS heavy (and some assaults) mechs had LFE’s...those got nerfed as well. So, much like PGI to balance via nerfing the high performers on both sides...mediocrity for everyone! Maybe I just expect them to balance to the worst performing mechs/weapons/etc.....not by making the worst things better...but making the better things worse. A lot of the best mechs in the game got worse with this change...so par for the course on how PGI balances. I guess I just don’t expect any different.

I didn't think you were arguing for it (you said you didn't really care either way), but I was pointing out that the hypothesized logic behind why PGI would do it/keep it didn't work.

Even from a nerfing certain mechs perspective, it really doesn't affect the top IS assault builds which tend to run standard engines and big ballistics (need the slots and are not heat sensitive - for the most part).

It's just another poorly thought out change by PGI, probably spurred by listening to some small group of people who have their ear and an agenda.

[R Valentine]

The ST heat nerf was a massive mistake. A lot of builds are almost unusable with only 1 ST. I already lost half my guns, why do I need to be so heat nerfed I can't even fire? Makes zero sense.

[WrathOfDeadguy]

Half your guns, a significant hit to dissipation, and reduced top speed. It's not as though there weren't serious penalties for torso loss already. Adding a "Think fast or you're dead!" to it wasn't necessary when the percentages of the existing penalties could simply have been adjusted instead until the 10-slot engines were where PGI wanted them balance-wise.

Right now, LFE on hotter builds is basically a heavier XL with a chance to survive if you're quick enough on the coolshot button. It's a 40k c-bill tax on surviving torso loss. That's stupid. PGI should be moving away from mechanics that encourage consumable spam, not adding more.

[justcallme A S H]

Yeonne Greene, on 28 December 2018 - 02:10 PM, said:

I don't care what you think you know; I've been experiencing slowed cooling efficiency in my 'Mechs from 2014 to present whenever DHS-laden arms, torsos, and legs get blown off.

Think being the keyword.

Understanding another... Problem is "think" to some people means they think they KNOW. When of course they don't.

All this change did was move the heat from the bottom and out it at the top. It was in the patch notes! The loss of dissipation already there....
But let's go all word soup, posts rubbish videos that show knowing and keep our heads in the sand.

[Marquis De Lafayette]

SFC174, on 28 December 2018 - 04:11 PM, said:

Even from a nerfing certain mechs perspective, it really doesn't affect the top IS assault builds which tend to run standard engines and big ballistics (need the slots and are not heat sensitive - for the most part).

It's just another poorly thought out change by PGI, probably spurred by listening to some small group of people who have their ear and an agenda.

Yep...those IS (with Standards) Assaults got better (relatively...as they didn’t get worse where other high performers did)....but really so did the pir-1 (heat management isn’t really an issue with that high performing variant)....ah the unintended consequences of this change.

[El Bandito]

Yeah LFE for energy build is just not worth it. I do believe this was a way for PGI to nerf the clearly superior CXL, but they also dragged the inferior IS LFE through the mud with it.

Edited by El Bandito, 28 December 2018 - 05:46 PM.

[FupDup]

El Bandito, on 28 December 2018 - 05:45 PM, said:

Yeah LFE for energy build is just not worth it. I do believe this was a way for PGI to nerf the clearly superior CXL, but they also dragged the inferior IS LFE through the mud with it.

CXL should've been the baseline, then make the various IS engines more durable or faster cooling or more agile or whatever else to bridge the gigantic gap between CXL and everything else.

[El Bandito]

FupDup, on 28 December 2018 - 05:51 PM, said:

CXL should've been the baseline, then make the various IS engines more durable or faster cooling or more agile or whatever else to bridge the gigantic gap between CXL and everything else.

Which we have been telling PGI for at least 3 years. Silly PGI...

[kapusta11]

Finally cXL got a well deserved and actually meaningful nerf. Now it's more in line with IS XL.

As for complaints, if only you could anticipate your ST blowing off by looking at your paperdoll and checking if your ST is not open.

[Khobai]

SlippnGriff, on 28 December 2018 - 12:27 PM, said:

Side torso loss heat spike change everyone hates. Its a horrible mechanic that needs to be reverted. Another thread already showed multiple twitch clips of streamers shutdown stun locked or no heat dissapation. Plus undo this awful mechanic pgi

I agree it needs to be reverted.

But even if they revert the change they still need to balance the engines better.

The necessity of reverting doesnt give PGI a free pass on balancing their game.

PGI needs to revert these god awful changes. Then they need to make ISXL roughly equal to CXL (it should survive side torso blowout and the only difference should be that it takes up 2 more crit slots). And they need to buff LFE and STD significantly. In other words all buffs as opposed to nerfs. Since PGI's stated goal has always been to increase time to kill (which theyve ironically lowered) they should have no issue with buffs instead of nerfs.

And as an aside making ISXL survive side torso destruction will allow for the implementation of IS omnimechs since theyll actually be viable then. So it really is the most logical course of action.

kapusta11, on 29 December 2018 - 03:28 AM, said:

Finally cXL got a well deserved and actually meaningful nerf. Now it's more in line with IS XL.

how exactly does nerfing the clans' only engine choice benefit the game? it just makes playing clans unecessarily aggravating. Even more people will quit over this. there is no benefit to be had from this.

the better course of action wouldve been to buff ISXL to be the same as CXL and also buff LFE and STD.

kapusta11, on 29 December 2018 - 03:28 AM, said:

As for complaints, if only you could anticipate your ST blowing off by looking at your paperdoll and checking if your ST is not open.

And how exactly does that foreknowledge help you? Its not like clan mechs can even torso twist anymore to protect their STs. You seem to have mistaken this for a different game where you can actually do something about it.

Even if the change was "fair" thats besides the point anyway. Because the problem is that it makes the game less fun by making everyone equally miserable. That alone is reason enough to revert it.

Edited by Khobai, 29 December 2018 - 05:04 AM.

[R E X I OS]

RIP all clan vomit mechs, You served us well.

Now I don't want to hear how FP is so on one side or the other.

[El Bandito]

R E X I OS, on 29 December 2018 - 03:57 AM, said:

RIP all clan vomit mechs, You served us well.

Now I don't want to hear how FP is so on one side or the other.

Clan las-vomit mechs are still potent. Come face Mercstar Hellbringer squad in FP and you'll see.

[Khobai]

El Bandito, on 29 December 2018 - 04:48 AM, said:

Clan las-vomit mechs are still potent. Come face Mercstar Hellbringer squad in FP and you'll see.

Its not an issue of potency. Its more the fact its just not fun.

If STD engines were actually a viable alternative to CXL it might be okay. But clan omnimechs dont even have the choice of using other engines. So excessively penalizing the only engine they have access to is just making clan players miserable without anyway to avoid it. Thats how you get players to quit your game faster.

The whole thing is dumb. When players have no choices you dont overpenalize the single option they do have. Its better to give players multiple balanced choices than one excessively miserable choice. Thats why buffing the engines wouldve made far more sense.

Nerfing CXL was just uncalled for. And people will quit the game over it.

Edited by Khobai, 29 December 2018 - 05:10 AM.

[FRAGTAST1C]

*Stands up amidst the shouting*

The whole problem is being tied to "lore" in a competitive MP shooter. Just remove the Clan and IS requirement everywhere. FP is just whatever loyalty you've sworn; no restriction on mechs. The mechs themselves shouldn't be restricted to specific equipment based on faction.

*With all eyes focused on him, he quietly sits down*

*Shouting resumes*

[JohnnyWayne]

All of this is ****, revert patch state back to march 2017. Thanks for your attention.

[Gen Lee]

JohnnyWayne, on 29 December 2018 - 05:56 AM, said:

All of this is ****, revert patch state back to march 2017. Thanks for your attention.

You know, there has been bugs fixed since then. Unfortunately, some fixes meant they had to break other stuff, like Artemis and ATMs. I'm starting to think that the more difficult bugs have been dealt with rather lazily, instead of utilizing proper fixes. Artemis / ATMs and the heat bug being two that come to mind. I mean it, this comes off as either amateurish, or just not giving enough of a **** to fix something properly, so they just slap something half-*** in the game instead.

[Ilfi]

Wow, lots of anti-heat spike folks in here. Pardon my bravery, but: I like the new changes.

I think high alpha vomit Mechs that are about to have their sides torn off while redlining should have to think twice about what they're doing. The change is one of PGI's many recent steps towards making brawling more competitive in a Quick Play setting, and I think they've done well.

Considering last year almost all of the talk was about "The Unfunning of MWO," it just strikes me as odd that people are mad about us having a new, arguably better (emphasis arguably) and more diverse game.

Edited by Ilfi, 29 December 2018 - 07:45 AM.

[Luminis]

How about we don't make this about IS vs Clan?

Yes, this hits some premier Clan Mechs, but it also hits one of the IS' most prominent engine choices. Not like the IS benefits substantially from this. It makes STD engine less of a sacrifice when you're slot blocked and the isXL slightly less of a sacrifice when you're tonnage capped but it doesn't take away much from what made the good Clan Mechs good - namely firepower and speed.

[Anomalocaris]

kapusta11, on 29 December 2018 - 03:28 AM, said:

Finally cXL got a well deserved and actually meaningful nerf. Now it's more in line with IS XL.

As for complaints, if only you could anticipate your ST blowing off by looking at your paperdoll and checking if your ST is not open.

In the current state of the game if you're playing pretty much any medium and most heavies, you can find yourself going from yellow armor to ST loss in about 2 seconds if you come across the wrong mech with an accurate pilot. Any of the 2xHGR IS assaults and a lot of the Gauss/vomit Clan mechs will take off a ST in one shot. The latter can do it at 500-600m so you may not even see that one coming. And we haven't even gotten into being backstabbed (yes, you should be paying attention, but sometimes it happens) by a PIR. That's just 1v1 encounters. Expose to 2 good players who know what they're doing and -poof-, it's gone.

The biggest impact of this change is to mediums and heavies, with the former suffering the most since they simply don't have the tonnage and downgrading engine size saps them of the mobility they need to compensate for their low armor.

[Unnatural Growth]

Ilfi, on 29 December 2018 - 07:44 AM, said:

Wow, lots of anti-heat spike folks in here. Pardon my bravery, but: I like the new changes.

I think high alpha vomit Mechs that are about to have their sides torn off while redlining should have to think twice about what they're doing. The change is one of PGI's many recent steps towards making brawling more competitive in a Quick Play setting, and I think they've done well.

Considering last year almost all of the talk was about "The Unfunning of MWO," it just strikes me as odd that people are mad about us having a new, arguably better (emphasis arguably) and more diverse game.

And this change just adds to the "Unfunning". Just more of PGI doing what PGI does best.

You've already lost a side torso. And an arm. Maybe you've lost a bunch of weapons and ammo (depending on build) as well. You've also lost speed and mobility. Those are all already penalties that existed from losing the side torso.

Now on top of those existing penalties, you get a heat spike that either shuts down your now crippled mech, or if you're running in override mode, your mech instantly goes BOOM.

How, EXACTLY, is this not continuing PGI's pursuit of the UNFUNNING OF MWO?