124 replies to this topic

[Y E O N N E]

Angel of Annihilation, on 06 February 2019 - 06:28 PM, said:

I am not going to say I didn't make a joke out of it but joke or not my comments strike closer to the truth than not. I have no doubt that if the Marauder II has any issues, it will get significant quirks to correct those issues pre-release and usually PGI will err on the side of caution with IS mechs and release them over quirked often as not just to be safe. They also tend to err on the side of too mobile and agile as well.

They typically release them under-quirked, not over.

And the NSR is still shite after all this time...

[Bishop Six]

And he still intentionally forget all bonuses Clanners have and focus only on quirks.

Angel, you have too see the whole picture, not only 1 part of it.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Bishop Six, on 07 February 2019 - 01:47 AM, said:

And he still intentionally forget all bonuses Clanners have and focus only on quirks.

Angel, you have too see the whole picture, not only 1 part of it.

It is not that I am forgetting anything, It is rather that I am not seeing them, not any more and I recognize that because I am looking at the bigger picture. Clans can mount more DHS but all their weapons are 60% hotter than IS weapons. Clans weapons are lighter and smaller but because of the heat, a clan mech has to mount more DHS which takes up all the slots and weight that was saved by the lighter smaller weapons just to get equal heat performance. Clan weapons have longer ranges, but also have longer beam durations and longer cooldowns. Clan mechs using XL engines don't immediately die when they lose a ST expect with the new heat spike mechanic, they usually do die as soon as they lose a ST.

Sorry but the Clan's don't have that many advantages going for them anymore. That train left a long time ago.

[Y E O N N E]

Nobody using the "Clan weapons are 60% hotter than IS weapons" argument can claim to be looking at the whole picture.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Y E O N N E, on 07 February 2019 - 10:45 AM, said:

Nobody using the "Clan weapons are 60% hotter than IS weapons" argument can claim to be looking at the whole picture.

• Hotter Weapons
  
• Longer Beam duration
  
• Longer cooldown
  
• Hotter Weapons = higher heat sink requirement
  
• Hotter weapons = worse performance in terms of utilizing the limited heat capacity, ie less capability to fire prior to reaching maximum heat threshold.
  
• Longer Beam Duration and Cooldown = Longer face time requirement = more damage taken before the mech can retreat to cover.
  
• Longer Beam duration tends to be equal to less concentrated damage.
  
• Higher heat mean more time spent hiding and cooling, less time fighting
  
• Clan mech agility stats on average lower than IS mech agility
  
• Fixed equipment limiting the capability on many Clan mechs
  
• UACs fire more shots which equal more damage spread.
  
• No pinpoint ACs.
  
• Clan LRMs stream out, IS LRMs volley
  
• Clan SRMs have more significantly more spread.
  
• Limited Quirks on Clan mechs
  
• Lower average durability with Clan mechs (due to quirks)
  
• Lower average agility, acceleration, deceleration. etc = less capability to reach cover, avoid enemy fire = more damage taken by the less agile on average clan mechs.
  
• Many Clan mechs nerfed to the extreme in terms of agility, torso twist,etc i.e. the 100 ton mech movement profile assigned to the 75 ton Night Gyr.
  
• XL heat spike that when combined with the excess heat of clan weapons make most Clan mechs now explode immediately after losing a ST or go into a hard shutdown for 20-30 seconds leading to the enemy being able to rapidly finish off the helpless clan mech.
  
• Inability to Clan Omnimechs to spec out of XL engines in order to avoid XL torso loss penalties.
  
• Loss of almost all quirks on Omnimechs the second you switch an omnipod.

Ok I could go on but I am tired of typing. However I think I just demonstrated just how large a picture I consider when talking about this sort of thing and from where I stand, I am not seeing any Clan advantages any more because for each advantage they have, they have at least one disadvantage cancelling it out and that is my point. Clan mechs as a faction, don't have any intrinsic advantage over IS mechs. They have been thoroughly neutered, so much so that I tend to avoid playing all but the top tier clan mechs anymore.

[Bombast]

Angel of Annihilation, on 07 February 2019 - 11:18 AM, said:

XL heat spike that when combined with the excess heat of clan weapons make most Clan mechs now explode immediately after losing a ST or go into a hard shutdown for 20-30 seconds leading to the enemy being able to rapidly finish off the helpless clan mech.

Thank god IS mechs have cleverly avoided this XL heat spike by simply keeling over dead when they lose an ST.

[Ch_R0me]

Take it for just Lime Green color or not...

[Alex Morgaine]

What happened to all the "this Mech will be so op" crowd? Every Mech even ones people were hyped for is a worry now :/

[Valdarion Silarius]

Alex Morgaine, on 07 February 2019 - 12:43 PM, said:

What happened to all the "this Mech will be so op" crowd? Every Mech even ones people were hyped for is a worry now :/

I think everyone is reserved on final judgments until we see the quirks closer to release. I think everyone is surprised that PGI chose such a low engine cap for the mech which got everyone worried, including myself. I'm not going to jump the boat until we get it in game since I'm still very happy that it's finally here.

[FLG 01]

IIC-2 might be downright meta; it's definitely good even without notable quirks.

The 3/5-variants will need massive quirks, but that was predictable. PGI uses a 1.2x multiplier to calculate the engine cap of heavy Mechs. Yes, they made exceptions but I for one did not expect an exception.

[Y E O N N E]

Angel of Annihilation, on 07 February 2019 - 11:18 AM, said:

Ok I could go on but I am tired of typing. However I think I just demonstrated just how large a picture I consider when talking about this sort of thing and from where I stand, I am not seeing any Clan advantages any more because for each advantage they have, they have at least one disadvantage cancelling it out and that is my point. Clan mechs as a faction, don't have any intrinsic advantage over IS mechs. They have been thoroughly neutered, so much so that I tend to avoid playing all but the top tier clan mechs anymore.

You demonstrated nothing because all you did was make a list of line items. What you are not doing is putting any of those items together, let alone comparing them to similar inquired IS builds. Try it, it will prove most illuminating and show you why the quirks are necessary.

Edited by Y E O N N E, 07 February 2019 - 01:21 PM.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Bombast, on 07 February 2019 - 11:29 AM, said:

Thank god IS mechs have cleverly avoided this XL heat spike by simply keeling over dead when they lose an ST.

I am just point out that there isn't much advantages gained from the Clan XL anymore. This has always been held as one of the major reasons clan mechs were so much better than IS mechs. Now with the heat spike, not so much any more. There is still some small advantage because occasionally you will lose a ST on a clan mech and not instant pop from overheating or die 10 seconds later as your mech stands there in overheated helplessness but more often than not, ST loss = Death for a clan mech with a Clan XL now.

Honestly it might have even been a good change for balance reasons but even though the Clan mechs lost most of this advantage, they are still saddled with all the disadvantages that were piled on top of them to offset the Clan XL advantage of still remaining fully functional after losing a ST. Heck the entire reason IS mechs were originally granted structure and armor quirks were to offset the durability difference between the ability to survive after a Clan mech with an XL lost a torso. Those structure and armor quirks still remain for the IS despite the most of the Clan XL advantages being stripped away and thank god because I love my IS mech so much more with those quirks than without them. Nothing better than a 70 ton Cataphract having more CT armor than a 100 ton Clan Assault mech. By the way I am serious when I say that too. I love my IS mech because of their quirks, without the quirks, most of my IS mechs would end up on the scrap heap. However, that doesn't mean that Clan advantages that those quirks were implemented to deal with aren't mostly gone though.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Y E O N N E, on 07 February 2019 - 01:16 PM, said:

You demonstrated nothing because all you did was make a list of line items. What you are not doing is putting any of those items together, let alone comparing them to similar inquired IS builds. Try it, it will prove most illuminating and show you why the quirks are necessary.

Hate to say it but your statement doesn't make alot of sense. Those line items illustrate something like 20-25 disadvantages Clan mechs have that you need to be aware about in order to be able to make a comparison. Example, if I was going to compare a IS ER Med Laser to a Clan ER ML I need to know that the Clan laser is significantly hotter, significant, has a significant longer cooldown and beam duration than the IS ER ML. Then I have to factor in the the Clan ER ML has a fairly significant range advantage. Then have to consider the fact potentially due to clan DHS being smaller than IS DHS, depending on the mech and build, I might be able to offset or overcome the Clan heat disadvantage but that still leaves the cooldown and beam duration disadvantage. Then I have to ask myself do the range advantage outweigh the cooldown and beam duration disadvantage or another way to look at is is analyze my typical engagement profile, ie how time I spend in fights where am I engaging at ranges longer than I can reach with an IS ER ML but are within ranges an Clan ER ML can reach and does that time give me enough advantage to offset the cooldown and beam duration disadvantage of the Clan ER ML has all all ranges the IS ER ML. I also have to consider the 6.5 damage vs 5 damage and how that weighs against the cooldown and beam duration disadvantage. Then I have to account for how the beam duration will tend to spread damage and if the extra 1.5 damage is worth less concentrated damage. Then I have to ask if the extra face time required out in the open, exposed to enemy fire waiting for the beam duration to finish is offset by the greater damage potential and range advantage.

So yeah, I think I am using that list and putting it all together to come up with a very solid, well thought out conclusion on the Clan advantages. In fact I highly doubt 95% of the people who play this game actually put anywhere near as much thought into this as I do simply because I am one of those idiots who love to take things a part in order to make out the fine details and come to conclusions based on trying to think about every situation, event or action where these details come in to play.

[Bishop Six]

Many words don't win arguments.

Imagine you would be a scientist.

As scientist you have to focus on hard facts.

What you mostly describe are feelings or assumptions.

You said "Zero Quirks" - I showed you are wrong.

You said "Sorry but the Clan's don't have that many advantages going for them anymore." - Yes, they a shouldn't have many advantages because its an online game, where we need balance.

You made a list of "disadvantages" - I can do this for IS too:

• XL Dead
  
• Slot wasting of DHS (feet, arms, CT)
  
• speed of mechs (Heavies Standard speed 65 kph - Clanner 81 kph)
  
• Less alpha damage
  
• Less range (AND slower!)
  
• Less hardpoints (Clanners easily can have double amount of weapon hardpoints)!!
  
• No omnimechs
  
• only ****** ecm variants of chassis with huge disadvantages

See? Thats easy.

[Alstren]

pancake hat

[Valdarion Silarius]

FirestormClone218, on 09 February 2019 - 11:07 AM, said:

pancake hat

That snuggles stream impression video of the Rifleman IIC was beyond stupid. I was trying to listen to his evaluation of the mech, but 90% of the video was him giggling like a child over the radar dish. At least Kanajashi did a proper review and listenable evaluation of the chassis.

[Alstren]

Arnold The Governator, on 09 February 2019 - 08:44 PM, said:

That snuggles stream impression video of the Rifleman IIC was beyond stupid. I was trying to listen to his evaluation of the mech, but 90% of the video was him giggling like a child over the radar dish. At least Kanajashi did a proper review and listenable evaluation of the chassis.

Giant stompy robots is serious business guys this is a no fun no sillyness zone

[MrXanthios]

I wonder when PGI will realize this is an online real time shooter and not a tabletop game. People have the ability to aim with pinpoint precision, they are not bound to the rules of the tabletop game. When someone shoots lasers, those lasers don't have a percentage to hit or miss and more importantly they are not scattered around, they hit in the same place. Like the NSR, which has those 3 huge useless chunks of metal on top of the side and the center torsos, the rifleman IIC is doomed to be a less than mediocre mech due to that dish on top of the head, which will announce your presence everytime you go over a ridge making you a target before you even see one enemy on the other side of it. It will also be an easy target for every mech with jump jets, since they will be able to shoot the dish and fall down to cover, while the person in the riflemanIIC has no clue of who shot him or where those shots came from.

[Grus]

Koniving, on 05 February 2019 - 05:04 PM, said:

The other guy was saying this was side grade and not superior to anything. So I was saying that's a good thing. As you've shared it might have a faster top speed but it is t gonna outshine everything.

But Hellbringer (Loki) being a better hill humper? That's like saying the Warhammer would be Bette at hill humping than a Jagermech. I must be missing something other than Rifleman has a hat.

That and the hbr has all its guns at and 1 above cockpit level ( exclude the arms) . 5er large, 4lpl, ppc, and it has ecm...

Bombast, on 07 February 2019 - 11:29 AM, said:

Thank god IS mechs have cleverly avoided this XL heat spike by simply keeling over dead when they lose an ST.

Clan mech stiff have to go through more armor, str, and component hp than IS has to do to clan.

Witch requires clan to run hotter. Thus, stackpole.

[El Bandito]

Grus, on 10 February 2019 - 08:22 AM, said:

Clan mech stiff have to go through more armor, str, and component hp than IS has to do to clan.

Clan mechs can make up the difference of durability in a section using one or two alphas since they generally pack harder hitting weapons. And LOL at mentioning component HP. That's as situational as free CASE all Clan mechs come equipped with.