144 replies to this topic

[Kojin]

Personally I like/d the mech packs that were actual packs rather than 7 of the same chassis. Hero mechs should be MC purchases rather than tack-ons and the lure for a mech pack should be a few bonuses and a 'themed' pack.

I bought Founders, Phoenix, Clan Wave 1+2 and Resistance packs and still plan on buying Resistance 2 and Wave 3 packs at some point.

The Solaris pack is a good pack. It's themed and was to introduce the Solaris to the community.

Civil War and Escalation should have been similarly styled packs. $90 for 12 mechs with each having one in special colours.

As the rest of the packs are single releases and feel too messy to choose what you want, I am unlikely to buy and thus PGI is losing my custom on the majority of the website purchases.

[Dauntless Blint]

The First "Resistance" pack I bought was such a let down I didn't take this games idea of balance seriously anymore.
The power disparity between the 2 main factions was broken and never addressed in a meaningful way.
The maps drive you insane because they always play the same way.
The introduction of fixed location "objectives" made that worse, Domination especially; having a training effect on the community to 'Rotate" which automatically disengages any thinking or "Tactics". (plays the same)

Solaris7 . The time and energy it took to build this feature could have been used to make a map generator (procedural generation) and it would have served as endless custom content.

Faction Play. I was recruited because I was good with one particular roll. I wasn't that interested but gave it a go for a while until I realised the difference in tech disparity and game balance just seemed too loaded for me to want to spend any money.(and a minor commitment to boot)

The new skill tree broke all my builds.

Desync. Old engine. poor pings. What ever explains the net code performance.

Nerfed controls, functions and ability to use movement for survival.

The game design trying to use armor to balance more than hit boxes.

Tech disparity: Trying to make a table top game who's main factions "Quality over Quantity", OR "Quantity has a Quality all of it's own" as their combat doctrine does not translate well into a game where each players mech must have the same value pound for pound for a fair fight.

I really would like to support the game with a new engine, skins, and all tech unlocked to all mech's so that asymetrical broken mechanics can't occure or be complained about.

[Widowmaker1981]

because i had a long break, and have a very rich account. So there are lots of mechs ive not used, and i have nearly unlimited funds (given i have 300 odd mechs and can sell many i never use) to buy and instantly skill them.. just seems like a pointless expense to buy mechpacks.

Id actually have made an exception for a Stone Rhino or Phoenix Hawk IIC, for nostalgia reasons, but there we go.

[Valpone]

As a 40’s working man, with a family, I will gladly by mech packs for mechs that interest me. For example I would love the rest of the Phoenix mechs I.e crusader, longbow, wasp and stinger. I would love a stone Rhino, grizzly, howler, I don’t mind if they are not massively competitive, some of my favourite mechs in the game are generally considered not the best,kintaro I’m looking at you.

I would also buy bigger packs if there was a saving. At the moment I default to the collectors pack. I’m a mid tier 3 player that loves the universe, happy to quick play also like faction drops.

The other stuff I would buy for money is the exotic mechs 4 legs or totem mechs.

[thievingmagpi]

I've bought 2 standard packs in the past, pre cbill drop and that's only because I watched a few streamers cleaning house with them. No regrets really.

Edited by thievingmagpi, 03 June 2019 - 11:37 AM.

[SI The Joker]

Hey PGI -

I haven't logged in here for quite some time and somehow this post made it across my desk... so I figured I'd throw in my response. It's a long one. There will be no TL;DR.

I'm not sure what you expect from this question - Most of what you will read here are things the community has told you for years.

To frame the response:

• Legendary Founder
  
• Over 100 mechs
  
• Probably played a thousand or more hours (I don't use Steam)
  
• 14,808 hours of premium time banked (That's 617 actual days of premium)
  
• 427,608 GXP sitting around

First and most important - the good stuff. It has nothing to do with the Mech models. I've always thought your art team has done a great job building these Mechs from a modeling perspective.


The reason I stopped by mechs (and playing this game, really) boil down to one common thing:

The constant missteps that PGI has made with regard to this IP and how to treat it.

The following are my opinions. They are reflective of my experiences but I will state clearly - I don't play much, at this time. Take them or leave them.

So why don't I buy mech packs anymore?



Community Warfare
Community Warfare was/is a travesty - and that was the first time I stopped buying mechs. I can't speak for others... but for me... I was looking for an experience where as a unit leader I'd have stuff to manage. Inventories, factories if I owned planets, economies, merc unit contracts, overruns, retreats and things like that. I expected some complexity, intrigue, backstabbing; You know - BattleTech.

What I got was a game mode with a meaningless map overlay. No depth... no meaning... nothing... just a map and a slightly different game mode where we had a gate in our way and had to shoot a couple boxes to open it.

BattleTech has a 35 year history that is rich and deep... and you handed us a 3/4 empty kiddy pool, told us to go play and called it done.

Skill Tree Changes
I wound up coming back (As one does) a bit later and buying up some more mechs. Mastering them at that time was still fun and felt as though it had some meaning behind it... even if the variant was less than viable. (more on that shortly).

Then you implemented the skill tree changes. I never did "come back" from that, to be honest. Most of my mechs sit with nothing selected because the system is not fun to use - at all.
Add into that, this whole thing around "refunds" and "transfers" and everything else... I'm not sure if I'm putting perks on my Mech or signing away my finances to a Nigerian prince. I remember when I first saw it... I threw my hands up in disgust and walked away. At this point, if I play... I have 3 or 4 mechs that I use because those are the ones where I begrudgingly went through this process.

The rest of my 100+ mechs? Haven't touched them because I despise this system that much.



Weapon Balance / Variants / Etc
This is a subject that historically elicited the most passionate response from the community. You guys never did really strike a balance with weaponry in MWO. At least not that I ever saw. Then you went and added heavier weapons that do even more damage - and still struggle with the same balance issues you had before... but now with a larger pool to work with.

Based on the current chassis configs, mechanics and balance many of the variants are just useless. So where I wind up is... you've charged me for a Mech variant that is useless in battle (and thus not fun) and sits in my garage.


I think my first post which got all screwy had some more text in it... but whatever... the point is made.

I appreciate you reading. Not that I expect any of this to change... but you asked and I'm answering.

Edited by SI The Joker, 03 June 2019 - 11:49 AM.

[thievingmagpi]

lol wut

[Peter2k]

MWO's dev cycle has always been slow, with questionable decisions sprinkled in.
Man I loved FP once, but they just had to hold on to Long Tom for so long, they just had to tax big groups, now they have a MM, and yada yada yada.

What they did was just so disappointing, with Solaris not what most had hoped for, and if you take the wasted dev time for Solaris together with the time where nothing really happened, you're scratching 2 years of wait time for basically nothing.

I'd say players would buy if they see things actually happening.
We've heard a lot of stuff before, but PGI actually putting in the work?

I was excited (yeah stupid me) when Paul reached out in August to tackle FP.
But they sure take some time to do anything, and then still do things in PGI fashion.

I haven't even touched on the unfunning of MWO (there was a time when my Dire couldn't get up a ramp, a simple ramp, in Alpine, without doing serpentines) and how they continue to make trash out of mechs I bought.

I voted with my wallet, which was a challenge since this is a beloved franchise.

[TheArisen]

With 151 respondents, just over 50% said they only buy mechs that interest them. Perhaps PGI has simply not been very good at picking mechs?

The 2nd highest with 24% is people buy mechs to support MWO and want to feel PGI is fixing issues with MWO and in general have faith in PGI. The only option I see here is to figure out what needs doing and to do it as quickly as possible.

In 3rd with 11% are the people that don't have the extra cash to drop on a mech pack. Perhaps PGI should consider lowering the price of mech packs? The ultimate packs do cost as much as a AAA game so it might be time to shoot for more volume.

[MischiefSC]

By 'interest me' I think you'll find most people mean 'don't suck and/or would be fun to play'.

Most the mech packs in the last couple of years have been almost entirely garbage mechs. I'm fine with mediocre; even decent. Not saying they all need to be the new meta. However most of them have been pretty much garbage. Flat out dramatically inferior. Like the Corsair - terrible hitboxes and structure quirks instead of armor. If it had a huge number of well placed hardpoints you could at least go glass cannon with it - but no. It's more of a glass potato. Give it strong armor quirks and it'd be a solid IS mech at 95 tons. No replacement for the Anni or Fafnir and certainly no Cyclops but it'd be decent.

But no. It'll always be bad, so people won't buy it. That's pretty much 95% of mech packs in a nutshell.

[Void Angel]

TheArisen, on 01 June 2019 - 11:03 AM, said:

I get that PGI hasn't kept their promises, etc but how is a mech pack a scam in any reasonable way? They offer the pack for X amount of money and that's it. You're not promised anything else for your purchase.

Don't use logic. It just confuses them.

[Alex Morgaine]

The biggest issue isn't mech packs for me, but lack of content to do.
Back long in the dark ages of 2011 I was hoping this game would end similar to eve online of all things.
Brutal and you're likely to lose your souped up mech but each house could supply basic (I.e. 3025 stock) Mechs and your pilot would gain skills. A game where a custom monster could wreck face but one lucky head shot and that pilot would be in a hunchback 4g making every ac20 burst count, maybe even hunting the person who appropriated his custom mech...

I guess something where the start map meant something really. C/FW never really got off the ground imo.

[Khobai]

TheArisen, on 04 June 2019 - 05:01 PM, said:

With 151 respondents, just over 50% said they only buy mechs that interest them. Perhaps PGI has simply not been very good at picking mechs?

The 2nd highest with 24% is people buy mechs to support MWO and want to feel PGI is fixing issues with MWO and in general have faith in PGI. The only option I see here is to figure out what needs doing and to do it as quickly as possible.

In 3rd with 11% are the people that don't have the extra cash to drop on a mech pack. Perhaps PGI should consider lowering the price of mech packs? The ultimate packs do cost as much as a AAA game so it might be time to shoot for more volume.

the problem isnt that PGI is bad at picking mechs that interest people. the problem is oversaturation. for example, when you already have well over a dozen laser boats how do you expect to sell more laser boats? when most players already own multiple laser boats they dont need another one.

what PGI did a bad job of is making all the energy boats unique so each one provided a completely different play experience. the whole problem is that they never completed the fourth design pillar they promised: role warfare.

if PGI wants to fix their business model they need to address why mechpacks dont sell. Specifically they need to differentiate mechs more, add more flavorful quirks, and consider dividing mechs into roles with each role having its own unique skill tree. If each mech is unique then theres more of a reason to buy mechpacks.

the other area where PGI let down players is the lack of long term progression in the game. Right now the game is a huge grind with no payoff at the end. So most free players just end up quitting before they convert to paid customers. Because theres no worthwhile goal for them to work towards and keep playing the game. That was supposed to be the purpose of faction play and it completely missed the mark. When people reach FP they just quit the game instead lol.

Edited by Khobai, 05 June 2019 - 12:57 AM.

[GeoDes TroyErr]

I stopped buying Mech packs after the new skill tree came. I used to play all the mechs from the mech packs to get them "trained" and "skilled" but now with the new skill tree, I don't need to do the skill tree with 3 mechs so I basically stopped buying mechs. [/color]

Anyway, I have too many mech packs and over 250 mechs so I kinda stopped buying.[/color]

Edited by GeoDes TroyErr, 05 June 2019 - 04:44 AM.

[TheArisen]

MischiefSC, on 04 June 2019 - 05:14 PM, said:

By 'interest me' I think you'll find most people mean 'don't suck and/or would be fun to play'.

Most the mech packs in the last couple of years have been almost entirely garbage mechs. I'm fine with mediocre; even decent. Not saying they all need to be the new meta. However most of them have been pretty much garbage. Flat out dramatically inferior. Like the Corsair - terrible hitboxes and structure quirks instead of armor. If it had a huge number of well placed hardpoints you could at least go glass cannon with it - but no. It's more of a glass potato. Give it strong armor quirks and it'd be a solid IS mech at 95 tons. No replacement for the Anni or Fafnir and certainly no Cyclops but it'd be decent.

But no. It'll always be bad, so people won't buy it. That's pretty much 95% of mech packs in a nutshell.

Haha it could be it's own poll and discussion as to what people define as a fun mech. The Hollander has a few fans but even with a 100% gauss CD quirk you'd have to buy it for me after which I'd sell it haha.

Of course you, me and a few others support the idea of a fun mech as being a competitive one but it is what it is

[Shade4x]

I want to cite things like it taking 8 months to put in a UI that smurfy-net already had done, or 2 years for faction play, which is essentially a game mode.Perhaps the 3 mass exodus's due to the frustration of every major problem being addressed with duct tape, that introduces more gamebreaking problems. Kinda want to add that any real dev team would of gone through at least 2-3 texture updates in 7 years. Seriously, compare Close Beta Footage with current footage.

To be honest, it comes down to the fact that Russ has lied to the community so much, including threats of shutting down the servers, that i'm more inclined to believe this is just his way of moving units for MW5.

It feels very much like we funded PGI to add content to MWO, and they used that money to make MW5 instead, and sell it for $60 at release. Though i should be glad, it's only really the cost of one mech pack.

[B0oN]

I bought mechpacks solely to support PGI and develop the game further into something worthy of the BT franchise, but due to overlong exposure to arrogance, unwillingness to communicate, unwillingness to actually create a change, dubious salestactics and lack of skill to use/improve the engine I just stopped supporting this "endeavour of going nowhere quite slowly" and went to things that are on more solid technical bases but also are more enjoyable than MWO has been these, hmmmm, let´s say past 36 months .

You effed it up, headhonchos of PGI, time and time again showing you were lacking the vision, the will and the strength to pull off what you were selling us a long time ago .
Can you remember the thingie with those 4 pillars you wanted to place your game upon ?
What ever happened to that ?
I know what happened to that .
You found out you couldn´t pull it off, so you just went and scrapped the pillars of your own game´s foundation and instead just tried to enjoy the dollars coming your way .

By the way, moderating any of the above would be the equivalent of saying : "Yea, I´m guilty ."
So, in the end, I don´t want no Mod to answer in here, but the bosses themselves, seeing that one of them found at least a semblance of grit those past few weeks and dares talking to people in his own forums .

Sadly funny thing with all this is that had the bigwigs been honest from Day 1 they could most possibly have gotten a metric gigaton of cash and the needed time to do things right, but nope .

And now, with all this being said : I´d like an answer .

[Sarsaparilla Kid]

Khobai, on 05 June 2019 - 12:49 AM, said:

the problem isnt that PGI is bad at picking mechs that interest people. the problem is oversaturation. for example, when you already have well over a dozen laser boats how do you expect to sell more laser boats? when most players already own multiple laser boats they dont need another one.

what PGI did a bad job of is making all the energy boats unique so each one provided a completely different play experience. the whole problem is that they never completed the fourth design pillar they promised: role warfare.

if PGI wants to fix their business model they need to address why mechpacks dont sell. Specifically they need to differentiate mechs more, add more flavorful quirks, and consider dividing mechs into roles with each role having its own unique skill tree. If each mech is unique then theres more of a reason to buy mechpacks.

the other area where PGI let down players is the lack of long term progression in the game. Right now the game is a huge grind with no payoff at the end. So most free players just end up quitting before they convert to paid customers. Because theres no worthwhile goal for them to work towards and keep playing the game. That was supposed to be the purpose of faction play and it completely missed the mark. When people reach FP they just quit the game instead lol.

If PGI had started where MW4 left off, with very restricted hard point locations and number of critical slots allowed for each (where one ballistic hard point couldn't fit more than an MG or AC2 in each arm because it only allowed for one critical slot to be taken up), then it would have been easier to release and sell more mechs and variants with more meaningful choices between them. As it is, we have hardpoints that allow us to equip a variety of weapons that were never intended in tabletop lore.

Edited by Sarsaparilla Kid, 05 June 2019 - 11:46 AM.

[Jackal Noble]

The Dervish was released instead of the Crusader ;p

[Weeny Machine]

It was forseeable that at one point mech packs won't see anymore. Simply because a lot of mechs play similar: laser boats, brawlers, LRM boats etc.

The solution would have been to give each mech a characteristic like a nearly unique skill. But hey, then you'd have to take some risks and also be creative.

Add to that that failing at including role warfare made the gameplay shallow and harder to differentiate the mechs and classes.