1380 replies to this topic

[Orisos]

BrotherEJ, on 09 August 2019 - 05:15 AM, said:

PGI in my opinion, has made the best F2P game on the internet. They need to make money, with this next game. They have a responsibility not only to us, to make a great game, but to their employees and investors too. Russ made a good deal, now he has to make a great game. Only time will tell, if your dire predictions will come true. The thing is if they don't and the game does well and MWO does well, what then... what hill is there left to die on Cheers lighten up buddy!!!

If you think MWO is the best F2P game then you're out of your mind. If they "need to make money" with something other than the content of their games then it's obviously not that good, is it? Furthermore, they have a responsibility to their customers and the Community Pre-Orders that were their investors. They are not meeting that responsibility. They took our money, spent it to their own ends, and are now offering it back to us under the condition that we request it back within a month and six days as of the end of July when this started. That is not being responsible to your customers, employees, or investors.

The only world that is even remotely "responsible" is the corporate one where lying to your customers and furnishing them with something other than what they paid for is considered okay as long as the accounts balance at the end of the quarter. Scummy corporate board rooms are the only environment in which goodwill is expended like a resource.

Edited by Orisos, 09 August 2019 - 10:19 AM.

[BrotherEJ]

The only remedy PGI can give you is a refund. Get your money back and live your life, that is the best revenge. I get it, if you're a Battletech fan and the franchise has taken a turn you don't like. I am a Warhammer40k fan and I know your pain. DOW3 and I could list a dozen more games in 40k that are awful. I have raged in those games forums, I make you all look tame Nothing changed. Gotta move on and hope for a game and company that meets your expectations. Good luck. As they say in 40k hope the first step on the road to disappointment.

Cheers PGI has a bright future and so do all of you.... I hope Cheers

[Samual Kalkin]

Epic Games Store Exclusive, eh?

Congratulation, you have just lost me as an MW5 customer. Permanently. You choose to be an Epic Game Store Exclusive; I choose to never buy MW5. It a shame. I really wanted to play MW5, but I will never support a company that does what you have chosen to do with Epic Games.

Bluntly, I hope the choice totally backfires on you for your sales numbers.

[Adamant80]

Prototelis, on 08 August 2019 - 04:45 PM, said:

If EGS is spyware; so are Steam, Origin, and probably Galaxy.

The whole "EGS is spyware" scare stems from ONE reddit thread that went viral, by an amateur, that has been debunked.

This is true but their security is pretty flawed when I ditched them. Account sales from hackers were a big business. I havent heard anything about improvement since their 2 factor authorization implementation. Some kid supposedly in "Taiwan" tried to steal my account. Plus I am naturally distrustful of commies and the biggest stakeholder of EGS is supposedly responsible for China's social credit system.

[C E Dwyer]

Because being part of steam, has really 'helped' increase the number of players here.

I'm using Win10, I'm all ready being spied on by Micro stoft

Add to that

Google.
Amazon.

If.

If Epic games are hacking my system, for the Chinese government, at least they aren't going to bombard my inbox, with based oh your purchases and browsing, we're suggesting the leatherette cod piece and face mask


I don't really care about the difference between capitalist pig dogs, and commie SOB's, because there isn't any, if a rich powerful man wants your house, your homeless.

These are first world issues.

Oh I'm pissed about this don't get me wrong, but not for any of the reasons given above.

If I chose not to refund, and I do actually find time to play the damn game, I'll have to down load another companies game centre.


Oh Taiwan's not communist, it's a republic like U.S.A

[Commander Kobold]

[Grayson Sortek]

BrotherEJ, on 09 August 2019 - 02:13 PM, said:

The only remedy PGI can give you is a refund. Get your money back and live your life, that is the best revenge. I get it, if you're a Battletech fan and the franchise has taken a turn you don't like. I am a Warhammer40k fan and I know your pain. DOW3 and I could list a dozen more games in 40k that are awful. I have raged in those games forums, I make you all look tame Nothing changed. Gotta move on and hope for a game and company that meets your expectations. Good luck. As they say in 40k hope the first step on the road to disappointment.

Cheers PGI has a bright future and so do all of you.... I hope Cheers

Yar, the land lubber's right me maties! PGI T'will do nothin' ta satisfy the customer base. Those 'a bringin' up da fortnite kiddies and PGI's new focus be right and ya know it me brothers. PGI does not have to cataaaar to the loyal fan base 'nemore. They have fresh meat, new opportunities with a whole'lotta new people tha'dunno 'ne'better. I be bettin' that they jump on the gamblin'n'games craze 'n microtransactions that all the wiggs be swoonin' over.

That's why I've taken ta sailin' the high-seas after all this time, and will support those that caaaaaare like HBS.

Drink up me 'earties, yo ho!

Adventure awaits.

[eeaus]

I don't normally post to these kind of things, because as a gamer, I'm a little older (think original launching of Commodore 64 in AUS with cassette drive...).

There does seems to be a lot of passion about this issue and I wanted to share a nice article that I read that originated from Epic's website, if folk are perhaps interested: https://ooblets.com/...-did-the-thing/ (Yes, my children also do the floss dances that their gif shows and no, I have no idea how they do this...)

I'm grateful that games like MWO and Battletech exist and that I found out about them (word of mouth), as I enjoy them as a distraction and I assume that PGI made the best commercial decision that they could, like any business, so that they can keep the lights on, pay their staff and provide interesting work for themselves and their team and provide valued products for their customers (i.e. us).

Just wanted to close that from a consumer perspective, they appear to have done the right thing by offering the choice of a refund given they changed their proposed commercial offering, allowing the previous incentives to be retained. From an AUS perspective, this is normal course of business stuff and consistent with AUS consumer law.

Edited by eeaus, 10 August 2019 - 01:06 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

eeaus, on 10 August 2019 - 12:34 PM, said:

Just wanted to close that from a consumer perspective, they appear to have done the right thing by offering the choice of a refund given they changed their proposed commercial offering, allowing the previous incentives to be retained. From an AUS perspective, this is normal course of business stuff and consistent with AUS consumer law.

Providing only a month to get your refund instead of the entire window until release is slightly underhanded, as was waiting so long to send out an email about it and still not even mentioning that time limit in said email.

Frankly, it all looks shady to me.

[Noppers]

So, I logged onto here after a year or two absent from MWO to see where MW5 was at because I'm really really keen for a single player MW experience again...........literally played all of the things since the originals.

I was absent because I simply could not stand any more of the money grubbing behaviour from PGI, coupled with what I consider to be consistent ignorance towards the community over the years......and upon logging onto the website I come across this thread with (currently) 65 pages of which about 63 are raging at PGI. It's not one or two people either, it's like all of the peoples.

Sadly it means I will now not buy this game on launch, and this depresses me. I so rarely post on forums anywhere, but ffs PGI.

Edited by Noppers, 11 August 2019 - 03:36 AM.

[Cherry Garden full of Blue Roses]

Like give it to some other company that is run by another rich CEO who does other things that you might disagree with?

Maybe. I've just bought new cpu and MOBO (Ryzen 5 2600, upgrade from fx8350).

[Orisos]

eeaus, on 10 August 2019 - 12:34 PM, said:

Just wanted to close that from a consumer perspective, they appear to have done the right thing by offering the choice of a refund given they changed their proposed commercial offering, allowing the previous incentives to be retained. From an AUS perspective, this is normal course of business stuff and consistent with AUS consumer law.

They didn't "do the right thing." They did the only thing they could do to avoid getting sued or worse. Even the EU government would have come after them if they dared to do this without offering refunds. This is not a favor to us in any way. It's literally required of them by law in many of the countries they do business.

[ingramli]

Orisos, on 11 August 2019 - 07:35 PM, said:

They didn't "do the right thing." They did the only thing they could do to avoid getting sued or worse. Even the EU government would have come after them if they dared to do this without offering refunds. This is not a favor to us in any way. It's literally required of them by law in many of the countries they do business.

Exactly. PGI is doing the bare minimum of the requirement by law. There is no ethics, no consideration at the perspective of backers, and that is the reason why they deserve no respect from us.

[Baron Blitz Fokheimer]

Even though I noticed this on the first day, I waited until they sent out an e-mail before making my decision. I really hoped that they would've at least offered a standalone client, but no such luck. I'll be requesting my refund shortly; I will not support Epic Games and their policies.

I have to say that I saw this coming. And I get why you're doing this, PGI, I really do. But I also think that it's a grand miscalculation on your part. I can tell you as a Steam gamer with a 2003 account (who started playing MWO, at its inception, outside of Steam), that the Epic Games store is almost universally despised on Steam. And Steam isn't even pushing any anti-EGS agendas. Out of the hundreds of friends I have on Steam, I can't name anyone who actively uses EGS. I'm sure some people have accounts to bank the freebies, but no one takes it seriously. There is very little overlap between the two user bases, with Steam being the established giant of computer gaming, and EGS mainly catering to mobile Fortnite transplants, and a small portion of the new-to-PC gaming crowd in general (which they're doing by giving out a lot of free games, which wind up as posts on deal sites, luring people into buying into the platform who normally wouldn't have bothered with PC games to begin with).

Fortnite players and casual PC gamers are not your target demographic, PGI. While competition on Steam is indeed intense, at least it's full of communities focused on co-op gaming, and with co-op games generally being somewhat uncommon, you would've seen at least moderate success. On the other hand, on EGS, no matter how much they'll feature your game, it will still be invisible to EGS users unless they give it away for free, but even then, that would be terrible for the MechWarrior community itself, since the player base will be nonexistent anyway - the game will sit in users' libraries, untouched. When Borderlands 3 flops, pay close attention, because that franchise is monolithic, and if it fails, then just think of what that means for you. I have hundreds of hours in that series, and neither I, nor anyone else I know who likes Borderlands, will be getting Borderlands 3.

Then there's the matter of privacy and security. I don't want to beat a dead horse, but I've had slightly more intimate experience with the way China does business, and there's a lot to worry about. Their government plants its roots in all business activities, especially IT companies, and especially IT companies with Western clients. You can be sure that Tencent is under mandate to mine and transfer as much Western customer data as possible and send it off to the Politburo, which means Epic Games will be forced to comply. Their damn client has been proven to phone home some pretty critical stuff, including browser traffic. Personally, I can't wait until they implement some actual community features in EGS, so that we can start up some democracy and Falun Gong groups and chat rooms, and have them show their true colors.

I know that this might seem as excessive paranoia to some, but the sad reality is that sometimes things actually are this bad. People might think that they're insulated from these concerns because Epic Games is still an American company, and will serve as a proxy to protect them, but that's not how the corporate world works. And the Chinese love keeping Western lapdogs as pets. It seems like a terrible, racist thing to say, but it really is part of their high-end business culture. You'd think that Sweeney wouldn't fall for it, since anyone worth that much money can be assumed to be alpha as hell, but here we are. The world is full of cases of founding executives getting forced to do terrible things with their companies, or get voted out or fired, after big acquisitions. Case in point: MoviePass.

All of that said, because you're offering refunds while letting people keep their preorder bonuses, and because this has been at least somewhat transparent (despite the deflection leading up to the announcement), I'm not going to stop supporting/playing MWO. I just hope that this is indeed worthwhile for you, financially. If postponing my access to MW5 for another year means that you can keep the lights on and the MWO servers running, I'll suffer through the wait. Just don't expect me to pay full price once the game does hit Steam.

Edited by Baron Blitz Fokheimer, 12 August 2019 - 12:36 AM.

[blacklanner]

Refunded. Though I have nothing against Epic, this is not what I signed for when pre-ordering he game.

Edited by blacklanner, 15 August 2019 - 05:19 AM.

[JUGMAN]

I do not normally post to the forums but I have posted at least three times to this thread. I am an old gamer that made an appearance on MWO due to my love of the game in the 80s and 90s. I really hoped that MW5 would be that tie in to the old times. I bought the initial offering and was one of the guys in our unit that was truly excited by the game.

When I heard Epic would be getting the exclusive and Steam would be out I was not too upset and could understand the financial aspects of the choice. What I was very upset in finding was that the deal with EPIC was being made during the initial STEAM roll out and I had my steam key. Those that still dont understand why people are upset look at this way. We "the consumer" entered into an agreement with PGI under the pretense of a certain product being distributed through certain 3rd person entity. STEAM KEYS were sent out with that pretense. During the taking of money from the consumer, PGI switches the 3rd party entiity without prior notice and even makes the final decision during the initial pre-order roll out. This is a classic bait and switch. That is why I asked for a refund and will wait until the game is offered at the 50 to 80% level in STEAM. IT is my way of giving the finger to PGI and maybe they might learn something in the future.

Russ you really dont have a clue what you have done to the community. Maybe your company will survive through the backlash. Part of me wishes you would fold but the logical part of me thinks you will continue on.

[Grayson Sortek]

Baron Blitz Fokheimer, on 12 August 2019 - 12:32 AM, said:

Fortnite players and casual PC gamers are not your target demographic, PGI. While competition on Steam is indeed intense, at least it's full of communities focused on co-op gaming, and with co-op games generally being somewhat uncommon, you would've seen at least moderate success. On the other hand, on EGS, no matter how much they'll feature your game, it will still be invisible to EGS users unless they give it away for free, but even then, that would be terrible for the MechWarrior community itself, since the player base will be nonexistent anyway - the game will sit in users' libraries, untouched. When Borderlands 3 flops, pay close attention, because that franchise is monolithic, and if it fails, then just think of what that means for you. I have hundreds of hours in that series, and neither I, nor anyone else I know who likes Borderlands, will be getting Borderlands 3.

First, thank you for the detailed post attempting to make people aware of the dangers.

Second, you're absolutely right! There is a big demand for the co-op market and not a lot of games filling that void right now. MW5 and the way you can incorporate friends into your lance is unique in that genre and they are going to miss out on a lot of potential sales in the year leading up to their Steam release. They better hope that co-op market is still there when they release in 2020.

[Orisos]

Baron Blitz Fokheimer, on 12 August 2019 - 12:32 AM, said:

the Chinese love keeping Western lapdogs as pets. It seems like a terrible, racist thing to say, but it really is part of their high-end business culture.

It only sounds racist to the most privileged and deeply ignorant westerners. Corporate culture under the PRC doesn't give two shits about public opinion. They manipulate and lie to their heart's content because they enjoy protections afforded to them by the State. Despite their government allegedly being Communist they exhibit ANCAP-tier behavior and it's encouraged by the government so long as it keeps their GDP growing on an annual basis. To them Epic Games is perfect: A minimally viable product put out by a company they have 40% stake in. To anyone that doesn't know, when you own that much of a company you get to elect people to the Board of Directors. In theory they don't own it, but in practice they do.

[Grayson Sortek]

If you guys want a good BattleTech game, and you haven't already tried it for some reason, then I HIGHLY suggest you check this out:
https://www.humblebu...-deluxe-edition

The Digital Delux edition for $17 is nuts, and with the latest 3025 mod that came out there is infinite replayability.

[TVMA Doc]

C E Dwyer, on 10 August 2019 - 06:41 AM, said:

Because being part of steam, has really 'helped' increase the number of players here.

I'm using Win10, I'm all ready being spied on by Micro stoft

Add to that

Google.
Amazon.

If.

If Epic games are hacking my system, for the Chinese government, at least they aren't going to bombard my inbox, with based oh your purchases and browsing, we're suggesting the leatherette cod piece and face mask


I don't really care about the difference between capitalist pig dogs, and commie SOB's, because there isn't any, if a rich powerful man wants your house, your homeless.

These are first world issues.

Oh I'm pissed about this don't get me wrong, but not for any of the reasons given above.

If I chose not to refund, and I do actually find time to play the damn game, I'll have to down load another companies game centre.


Oh Taiwan's not communist, it's a republic like U.S.A

Wow, you search for some pretty weird stuff!