406 replies to this topic

[GuardDogg]

Dimento Graven, on 01 November 2019 - 08:17 AM, said:

Well, FYI, you don't speak for me.

I've been Tier 1 since they introduced the tiering system, 'earned' through the year (or maybe two years) of game play that PGI used to rank everyone when they switched from a 'black box' elo system to the more transparent tier system.

I'm also a streamer.

I'm also a very salty guy. As said in Money Ball, I hate losing more than I love winning.

Watching the same potatoes play the same way, making the same bonehead mistakes, match after match after match, gets incredibly frustrating.

The current tiering system is 'biased' upwards, meaning as long as you're not consistently doing terribly, you're probably going to move upwards in rank. Slowly crawling your way up to Tier 1, all the while still making the same stupid mistakes, still playing badly, still using 'spray and pray' aiming habits, DOES NOT MEAN you 'deserve' and/or actually 'qualify' as a "Tier 1" player.

Unfortunately there is not enough 'negative feedback' in the game to correct this. For example, nascar: Unfortunately in this game, 100% of the time when both sides are 'nascaring', one side will always win. "Gee, last time I participated in the potato tornado, we won, SO, I'll do it again this match..." is the kind of gaming thought process that is unfortunately being reinforced.

Different map design, random drop points, and other changes might change this tendency, but as it stands now, the game doesn't punish enough for poor play (barely punishes at all), and there's a lot of us who are in Tier 1 who probably don't "deserve" to be ranked as "Tier 1".

OMG, thank you so very much. The best post to date. Although I wasn't speaking for you, I was speaking for my buddy in (Ireland). Met him in MW3. He went through hell in service. Been through more than any other, he is more, that I can not say. But he can relate to some here that served. I will always respect him, and I speak for him. He been away for awhile, and unable to come here to back me up for a lot of reasons atm. And some of my other buddies that have families, and others I met in MW3, furthermore, those that have the same game play I do. People need positives, laughter, happiness. Not angry salt. But, will leave it at that.

You said it best.

Edited by GuardDogg, 01 November 2019 - 08:44 AM.

[Dee Eight]

Dimento Graven, on 01 November 2019 - 08:17 AM, said:

The current tiering system is 'biased' upwards, meaning as long as you're not consistently doing terribly, you're probably

Everyone knows that, even the troll you all keep responding to. Even being consistently terrible you can advance and the troll is a prime example of that fact. Now that that's established as canon fact....

[Dimento Graven]

Dee Eight, on 01 November 2019 - 08:30 AM, said:

Everyone knows that, even the troll you all keep responding to. Even being consistently terrible you can advance and the troll is a prime example of that fact. Now that that's established as canon fact....

Unfortunately with the over abundance of people who believe that playing the exact same way they did when they were in Tier 5, and taking 5 or more years to get to Tier 1, that they actually DESERVE to be ranked as a Tier 1 player and actually believe that they are PLAYING at a Tier 1 level, we have to make consistent effort to educate them to the truth of the matter:

No - you're not playing at a Tier 1 level, the current system just let you attain that rank. You've learned nothing. You've not improved your game play. Whenever the MM puts you in a match against Tier 1 players, the majority of which are actually playing at a Tier 1 level, you will always do very poorly, and it is reflected in your match results when it happens.

We have to continue to try and educate and fight the misconceptions of the ignorant.

[Kroete]

Dimento Graven, on 01 November 2019 - 08:17 AM, said:

Slowly crawling your way up to Tier 1, all the while still making the same stupid mistakes, still playing badly, still using 'spray and pray' aiming habits, DOES NOT MEAN you 'deserve' and/or actually 'qualify' as a "Tier 1" player.

Wrong, you deserve it after you have played some good or lots of bad matches.
Thats how its build, thats how its implemented and that how the devs made it,
pgi decided that everyone deserve to be tier 1 in this game.

After 11 pages you should have understand that tiers in this game have nothing to do with skill or performance ...

Dimento Graven, on 01 November 2019 - 08:35 AM, said:

....that they actually DESERVE to be ranked as a Tier 1 player and actually believe that they are PLAYING at a Tier 1 level....

They needed the same xp to get to level 5 (tier1) then you.

Again, there is no performance based matchmaking system in mwo.

Edited by Kroete, 01 November 2019 - 08:40 AM.

[Horseman]

GuardDogg, on 01 November 2019 - 08:03 AM, said:

I know some are playing atm, that are in T1, and they deserve to be in T1. And they worked just as hard as myself.

Sorry, mate, but results matter more than the amount of difficulties you had in reaching them.

Quote

So, when you insult me, about my earned Tier, you are insulting them as as their earned Tier as well.

Nobody is attempting to insult you here. We're just saddened at your inability to understand how the tier system works.
The only person damaging your reputation here is yourself through your hostile, irrational and entitled ranting.

Quote

And I am also speaking for my military buddies. So, read between the lines.

Reading between the lines, that sounds like a threat.

[Dimento Graven]

Kroete, on 01 November 2019 - 08:36 AM, said:

Wrong, you deserve it after you have played some good or lots of bad matches.
Thats how its build, thats how its implemented and that how the devs made it,
pgi decided that everyone deserve to be tier 1 in this game.

After 11 pages you should have understand that tiers in this game have nothing to do with skill or performance ...

But the misconception is that people who 'earn' Tier 1 by playing just barely well enough to be on the winning side more often than they lose some how equates to them playing at a "Tier 1" level is what we're fighting against.

Just because you played 100,000 matches and FINALLY made it into Tier 1 does not mean that your game play is at a 'Tier 1' level.

[Kroete]

Dimento Graven, on 01 November 2019 - 08:40 AM, said:

But the misconception is that people who 'earn' Tier 1 by playing just barely well enough to be on the winning side more often than they lose some how equates to them playing at a "Tier 1" level is what we're fighting against.

Just because you played 100,000 matches and FINALLY made it into Tier 1 does not mean that your game play is at a 'Tier 1' level.

Again,
you and he are both level 5 (tier1),
you both needed the same xp to get there.
If you need 100000 or 1 match to get enough xp to get to tier 1 (level5) doesnt matter,
you qualify by getting enough xp and you both play now in tier 1 because you both have accumulated enough xp to get to level 5 (tier1).

Again: Tiers have nothing to do with skill or perfomance !

If you want to talk about ranks or some other performance based metrics then an exp bar,
maybe dont use the term tier in this game, tiers im mwo are levels.

Edited by Kroete, 01 November 2019 - 08:50 AM.

[Dimento Graven]

Kroete, on 01 November 2019 - 08:46 AM, said:

Again,
you and he are both level 5 (tier1),
you both needed the same xp to get there.
If you need 100000 or 1 match to get enough xp to get to tier 1 (level5) doesnt matter,
you qualify by getting enogh xp and you both play now in tier 1.

Again: Tiers have nothing to do with skill or perfomance !

But I don't want to be stuck with the guy that took 5 years to get to Tier 1, who hasn't improved his game play in all those years.

OR, that guy needs to realize his game play needs improvement and thus actually works at it.

The intent of the Tier'ing system was supposed to keep players of overly disparate skills away from each other.

If all it was was to make sure that "new" players were to stay away from 'veteran' players, then PGI could have simply changed the ranking system such that it counted the number of games played. Establishing a minimal number of matches played to qualify for a 'rank'.

That's not what PGI did. They implemented a scoring system based on performance in each match.

That's a lot of wasted effort if what you've stated at the intent is true.

Currently all the system does, as it functions now, is to keep the brand new players, and truly very bad players away from Tiers 1 and 2 (in the solo quick drop queue, most of the time).

There's still a performance element in the ranking system it just degrades over matches played, again, being biased 'upward'.

[Mystere]

Gagis, on 01 November 2019 - 01:47 AM, said:

The matchmaker is the biggest flaw in MWO ...

The biggest flaw in MWO is that it is just a mere emaciated skeleton of the game it was supposed to be.

The matchmaker is the least of its problems.

Dimento Graven, on 01 November 2019 - 08:54 AM, said:

Currently all the system does, as it functions now, is to keep the brand new players, and truly very bad players away from Tiers 1 and 2 (in the solo quick drop queue, most of the time).

Working as intended, wasted effort or not.

Edited by Mystere, 01 November 2019 - 03:41 PM.

[Mystere]

Dee Eight, on 01 November 2019 - 07:55 AM, said:

Ahem...

That looks more like a big fat rat.

[Horseman]

Dimento Graven, on 01 November 2019 - 08:54 AM, said:

But I don't want to be stuck with the guy that took 5 years to get to Tier 1, who hasn't improved his game play in all those years.

Unfortunately, he proclaimed multiple times in this thread that he wants to be stuck with you... no matter that this makes the game experience worse for both.

[GuardDogg]

Careful Horseman. Please let this thread die. The topic is from Ash, about making it to T3 is a short time. Let it be there. Nothing else. It (and topic) has been flamed enough, even by me. If it gets another few pages of what been chatted about, it is your fault. Time for nice things (posts). Not A-hole crap. Be a nice awesome guy.

Edited by GuardDogg, 02 November 2019 - 04:05 AM.

[Dee Eight]

Horseman, on 02 November 2019 - 03:46 AM, said:

Unfortunately, he proclaimed multiple times in this thread that he wants to be stuck with you... no matter that this makes the game experience worse for both.

And of course as others have said, there he goes again having to get another word in.

[Wobbly Ron Kenobi]

I rarely post on these forums but I have to ask why anyone would think having the "better" players matched against each other would result in "bickering" and uninstalls. I have 3 accounts and all are 90-94 percentile on Jarls. I consider myself an average player.

I have had the pleasure of playing with and sharing comms with some of the best players in this game (Ash, Navid, JayZ, LurmGod, Bear claw etc) I like playing with these guys because it is a laugh a minute. If someone messes up the only person bitching on comms is the guy that messed up saying sorry guys I should have known better than to poke there. Its much better than the stream of poor advice/bad calls in QP or the lurm assult out in zimbabwe bitching at his team because he got eaten alive by enemy lights.

I am not a comp player, I play for fun, and it is fun when you win. But with MM the way it is, there are so many 12-2, 12-3 games the matches themselves suffer. I would rather have a bunch of really close matches than a continual parade of whitewash wins or losses.

As to the original point of this thread, I am not anywhere near as good as Ash but I started a new account a few months ago and got to mid T3 in day (4 or 5 hours playing) so if I can do it has to be easy. So I think I agree with the point - if it takes/took you years to get to T1, you probably shouldnt be there.

[justcallme A S H]

Dee Eight, on 02 November 2019 - 05:22 AM, said:

And of course as others have said, there he goes again having to get another word in.

HA.

BUSTED.

You said you blocked me. By replying to this thread you have confirmed you have not got me blocked.

Caught you out on yet another lie. Good one.

While you are here, why don't you now clarify and admit you were wrong about all your statements around PSR, how it works etc etc? You said you won 9 straight and didn't make it to Tier 3 - debunked as a lie now.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 02 November 2019 - 02:33 PM.

[Gluten]

Yeah it's busted.

I don't know what feasible options there are to fix it considering it's a niche game with a smol playerbase. Even if this game didn't have the problems it had I doubt there would be many more people playing.

I prefer this over long queue times; I just want to shoot mechs.

[Horseman]

Wobbly Ron Kenobi, on 02 November 2019 - 07:58 AM, said:

I rarely post on these forums but I have to ask why anyone would think having the "better" players matched against each other would result in "bickering" and uninstalls.

Due to a fundamental failure to understand how the mindset of a truly competitive player works and an assumption they're too emotionally insecure to handle failure.

Edited by Horseman, 02 November 2019 - 03:12 PM.

[Dee Eight]

Horseman, on 02 November 2019 - 03:12 PM, said:

Due to a fundamental failure to understand how the mindset of a truly competitive player works and an assumption they're too emotionally insecure to handle failure.

Since you won't take the advice of mine to stop feeding the troll, nor of gagis (three pages ago pointing out he's not going to win simply by continuously posting to have the final word), PGI does offer a forum tool to keep you from having to read the drivel in the first place. There's an ignore function, though its not easily accessed. You have to click profile, then view forum profile, then edit my profile, then 'ignore preferences', then add him to the list. This is mine for example...



However I should add the fact that PGI's forum code doesn't handle ignore the same way other forums (such as facebook as an example) handle blocking. It doesn't make your posts or activity on the forums invisible to people you've ignored here, or vice versa. Instead the contents of their posts beyond subject lines are omitted as follows in the image below. When you block someone on facebook you basically ghost them completely. They never see your posts, your comments on others discussions, events you post up in groups, etc and you don't see theirs. PGI has generally taken a lazy approach to the ignore/block feature coding on this website and in the game (how many years passed between adding a block feature to the game itself and making it so the voice chat block didn't turn itself off every new match began for example).



Of course a lot of folks are ignorant of that hidden feature of PGI's forums.

Edited by Dee Eight, 02 November 2019 - 08:33 PM.

[GuardDogg]

Wt fn F? What is your problem? I earned my T with hard work and life together. I like you to respond when you have a heart attack, get into a coma for a week, they try to make it back to top. I did de-tier from that (when I was in T3, to T4), then progressed back up. Guys...Stop being a a-holes. Learn to respect people. Heart less people I have ever encountered. I have a buddy who got called up to war, and returned to MWO. He also de-tiered, and worked his way up. People get called up on job contracts (Away up north from home). And then you guys come along. These guys do not belong in T1. IT is not a ranking system. We are human (average players), not fn robots, computers who think about numbers, stats.

Edited by GuardDogg, 02 November 2019 - 03:51 PM.

[Gagis]

Oh hey, that is a useful feature I thought did not exist! These forums are such an incredibly bad environment, that by blocking all of the regulars, I could maybe just make them good for something, maybe, kind of, hopefully.

The best solution would be to have PGI delete the forums altogether though.