146 replies to this topic

[K O Z A K]

Prototelis, on 25 February 2020 - 05:38 PM, said:

Honestly 100% surprised I've never seen FAIT in those ******* things. They seem to mostly prefer kiteyman IS peepers like the BJ and Panther.

Don't give them any ideas! I'm pretty sure the only reason it hasn't happened is because their brains can only handle adding 1-2 mechs to their selection every 3 months or so.

[FRAGTAST1C]

@Vellron2005 : I'm sure you've played as a LRM-boat in MW5. Did you use your teammates as bait there or did you actually get your own locks by leading with the team? If you did the latter, why don't you and other LRM-boats do the same in MWO?

[General Solo]

Hazeclaw, on 25 February 2020 - 08:21 AM, said:

That's ok, those guys are probably ridiculed and disliked more than even you. Probably extra frustrating for you because they will force you to stay outside of lrm max range and you don't have the skill and knowledge to work out how to beat them.



Please stay in qp and away from fp. You fit right in there with the rest of the selfish qp players that have basically turned screwing over teammates into meta game for the mode.

Morality coming from a FP seal clubber, please.

Anyway my take is this.....

You can't compare direct fire snipers to a indirect lock leaching lermer.

For a start the direct fire guy needs to expose to shoot and so theres is a high chance will draw agro
Which can split the enemies attention if playing good angles at the least
and get free precision highly efficient aimed shots if the enemy is out ranged instead of spread fire damage.

This ability to hit at any range with a LOS with the enemy often means you fire more often than shorter ranged builds, often out damaging entire lances with precision fire.

They can also control, deny parts of the map with PITA fire as I like to call it.

Its not easy to do good. Cannot just hold a lock and fire fire.
Need to aim good at small things, use cover smartly so you can fire your shot while the enemy misses their shot.

Armour sharing per se is for certain particular situations when their is noting better.
Such as crossing dangerous ground to break out or flank
Its not best practice, trading is, imo

So, Indirect Lerm leachboats dont draw agro, dont trade, can't fight without assistance
So imo you can't compare indirect LRM leaches with snipers.

[K O Z A K]

OZHomerOZ, on 25 February 2020 - 09:02 PM, said:

Morality coming from a FP seal clubber, please.

Do tell, what is it that makes me a seal clubber? The fact that I play like 3/4 of games in groups of 3-4?

[Prototelis]

Teams in the end game unit-centric team game mode that specifically warns the player they'll be playing against coordinated teams OH NOOOOOOOOOOO!

[OmniFail]

If,

Prototelis, on 24 February 2020 - 05:23 PM, said:

Health pooling absolutely is a component in winning because like several other good practices it helps to mitigate attrition.

is true

Then why do the ECM and Stealth Armor users know not more shame? They are proactively seeking to reduce their ability to be detected and therefore are minimizing their ability to present the armor that contributes to the mitigation of destruction though the attrition of their team at a more efficient tonnage rate compared to the costs of costs of LBX-2 snipers and Lrum boats alike.

They’re the ones refusing to be your damage sponges.
They’re the real monsters.

Edited by OmniFail, 25 February 2020 - 11:23 PM.

[FRAGTAST1C]

OmniFail, on 25 February 2020 - 11:21 PM, said:

If,


is true

Then why do the ECM and Stealth Armor users know not more shame? They are proactively seeking to reduce their ability to be detected and therefore are minimizing their ability to present the armor that contributes to the mitigation of destruction though the attrition of their team at a more efficient tonnage rate compared to the costs of costs of LBX-2 snipers and Lrum boats alike.

They’re the ones refusing to be your damage sponges.
They’re the real monsters.

If you're inside their ECM bubble, you get the Jesus Box effect, too. If your weapons' optimal range synchronises beautifully with theirs, then go ahead and stick with them.

[Prototelis]

Leech lock auto-aim is inherently more parasitic and practitioners like the OP are so often so completely adverse to risk that they seldom contribute to local health pools.

At least the LG fafnir guy has to do it in plain view and expose to shoot. It isn't hard to pick up on where he is, and he more often than not will get multiple people to break away to deal with it; which depletes your team's available health pool.

He also has a higher WLR than many of the "aggressive" forum lermers. So altho what he is doing is asinine, on average it is a bigger contribution to the W than ditch hiding circle gets the square.

[Brizna]

Armor sharing is good.
Distracting enemies and area denial is good.

So sniping good is really going to depend on how much you distract your foes in comparison to how much you don't help your team by armor pooling.

Wait, I have finally discovered the secret, sniping good is good and sniping bad is bad.

Jokes apart that's exactly it:
If an sniper is irrelevant to the enemy and they can just push their outnumbered enemies: bad (and doing a lot of damage and dying last won't matter in the end)
If an sniper is constantly disrupting enemy lines spreading them all over the place, drawing ineffective fire at himself that is not directed towards his friends, drawing several red dorito hunters in an unsuccessful or protracted hunt, he is doing it good.

[ShiverMeRivets]

OmniFail, on 25 February 2020 - 11:21 PM, said:

If,


is true

Then why do the ECM and Stealth Armor users know not more shame? They are proactively seeking to reduce their ability to be detected and therefore are minimizing their ability to present the armor that contributes to the mitigation of destruction though the attrition of their team at a more efficient tonnage rate compared to the costs of costs of LBX-2 snipers and Lrum boats alike.

They’re the ones refusing to be your damage sponges.
They’re the real monsters.

ECM is shared with the team. It does not prevent you from getting shot at - it delays attention at range sure, lock on weapon users will prefer to lock on faster on someone else, but ECM does not do much in a brawl.

Stealth on mechs larger than 50 tons has a different purpose than invisibility - it hides your paper doll. I played Cataphract front-line brawler in stealth armor. Enemies spotted me just fine and were shooting at me, but they were hitting everything because they could not see which components were open. In nearly all cases when I died, I was stripped of armor all over except the head and legs. No one seemed to choose to shoot my legs without the paper doll. So stealth mechs can share armor.

[Vellron2005]

FRAGTAST1C, on 25 February 2020 - 06:59 PM, said:

@Vellron2005 : I'm sure you've played as a LRM-boat in MW5. Did you use your teammates as bait there or did you actually get your own locks by leading with the team? If you did the latter, why don't you and other LRM-boats do the same in MWO?

MWO and MW5 are totally different gaming environments, and you can't even compare the two.. here's why:

1) MWO is live players that have half a brain on most occasions, MW5 lancemates are halfwiths that shoot at hills and dropships, and only mindlessly follow you around, unless they have to use Jump Jets in which case they freeze in place.

2) Weapon balance is totally different. In MW5 you can solo entire Assault lances even in a LRM boat, and by that stage your lancemates are there more to distract and tank than anything else. In MWO you peek over the wrong ridge and loose a torso or simply die for your effort. Not the same thing.

3) In MW5 you have to get your own locks because the bozos you roll with are usually behind you by default. And if you send them ahead, it ends up costing you millions of cbills when they die or stomp through the buildings you're supposed to defend. In MWO, even the worst player is more useful and careful than a bot. Plus, in MW5 there is no ECM, almost no AMS, locks are easy to get and even easier to maintain.

4) In MW5, being a dedicated LRM boat is not as usefull as in MWO because enemies spawn very near you, and are almost constantly in you minimum range, so mixed LRM+Backup laser builds is the way to go. In MWO, you are safe from close range engagements if you follow your team and they take care of you properly.

5) In MW5, huge tube counts are non-existant. You basically can't mount more than 2xLRM20. In MWO, LRM60 is the bare minimum if you wanna dedicate-LRM. Huge difference.

So, in conclusion, in MW5, i use mixed builds with a do-it-yourself approach to the game, and my lancemates are only somewhat useful, and are mostly used for meat-shielding and drawing fire away from me.

In MWO, both the teammates and the enemy are somewhat intelligent people who use tactics and situational awareness, use them in a different environment and in a different weapon balance, and you simply can't compare the two.

I hope that answers your queston.

P.S.

I'll have you know I very often lead pushes, pop UAVs and get my own locks in MWO.. But the bad rep Lurmers get in MWO leads to jumping to conclusions and stereotypes.

I would not be a good lurmer and get solo kills and KMDDs if I stayed back and waited for locks half the match. I just don't charge blindly on and have a tendency to stay in cover 400 meters from my target whenever possible. Exposing in a LRM boat = suicide in this game.

Edited by Vellron2005, 26 February 2020 - 03:47 AM.

[Brauer]

ShiverMeRivets, on 26 February 2020 - 02:10 AM, said:

ECM is shared with the team. It does not prevent you from getting shot at - it delays attention at range sure, lock on weapon users will prefer to lock on faster on someone else, but ECM does not do much in a brawl.

Stealth on mechs larger than 50 tons has a different purpose than invisibility - it hides your paper doll. I played Cataphract front-line brawler in stealth armor. Enemies spotted me just fine and were shooting at me, but they were hitting everything because they could not see which components were open. In nearly all cases when I died, I was stripped of armor all over except the head and legs. No one seemed to choose to shoot my legs without the paper doll. So stealth mechs can share armor.

Stealth on mechs primarily serves to nerf your own dps and effectiveness. It's a big sacrifice and imo the gain is usually only worth it for cheeky lights.

[Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie]

Vellron2005, on 26 February 2020 - 03:31 AM, said:

I'll have you know I very often lead pushes, pop UAVs and get my own locks in MWO.. But the bad rep Lurmers get in MWO leads to jumping to conclusions and stereotypes.
I would not be a good lurmer and get solo kills and KMDDs if I stayed back and waited for locks half the match. I just don't charge blindly on and have a tendency to stay in cover 400 meters from my target whenever possible. Exposing in a LRM boat = suicide in this game.

dude, in which dimension do you live normally?
cause in this one, you do NOTHING of the above. not ever.

if I stayed back and waited for locks half the match
-true, you don't. you stay back an wait for locks ALL the match.

have a tendency to stay in cover 400 meters from my target whenever possible.
-have a tendency to stay in cover 900 meters from my target ALL THE TIME.
fixed that for you.

pop UAVs and get my own locks
-what good is a UAV several hundred meters behind the team? cause that's where you are and stay.
is it maybe to radar-cover your a$$ because you're afraid of lights and know the other 23 would not circle back to help you?
and yes: you play against 23, every time.

I very often lead pushes
-see, that's the point where EVERYBODY who ever had to carry your a$$ through a match KNOWS you're trolling.
you leading pushes.. redonkulous.

to go full-circle to your first post here: maybe you should realise that you're just as bad and toxic to the game as those sitting behind their teams, as you do just about the same useless stuff they do - only they don't need somebody to get a lock for them.
whenever you drop into fw, there's a 11 vs 12 situation;
11 poor souls who have to carry your a$$, and 12 on the other side who are glad they don't have to.


anyway, I'm done here. like others have said: pls stay in QP, at least the rest there is as selfish as you, so you don't do that much harm. I just wish more people in FW had the balls to TK you 4 times, just to discourage you from poisoning each match you're in.

Edited by Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie, 26 February 2020 - 05:56 AM.

[FRAGTAST1C]

Vellron2005, on 26 February 2020 - 03:31 AM, said:

*SNIP*

Exposing in a LRM boat = suicide in this game.

So, while others have to peek and shoot at the targets that they have LOS to, you prefer to hang back and use the work done by your teammates to be effective. Do you not see the problem here? No matter what the differences are between MW5 and MWO, how can you justify LRM'ing from Zimbabwe while the rest of the teammates do half the work for you? And to top it all, your teammates have to deal with the enemies when they push but you keep falling back and are able to do nothing at all to help.

Have you tried bringing Skill Veagle at least? Or ATM 36 + LBx10 Highlander IIC-B or even ATM42 + LBx10 Highlander IIC-B and helped out on occasion?

Edited by FRAGTAST1C, 26 February 2020 - 04:30 AM.

[K O Z A K]

Vellron2005, on 26 February 2020 - 03:31 AM, said:

I'll have you know I very often lead pushes, pop UAVs and get my own locks in MWO.. But the bad rep Lurmers get in MWO leads to jumping to conclusions and stereotypes.

fake news

Vellron2005, on 26 February 2020 - 03:31 AM, said:

I would not be a good lurmer and get solo kills and KMDDs if I stayed back and waited for locks half the match. I just don't charge blindly on and have a tendency to stay in cover 400 meters from my target whenever possible. Exposing in a LRM boat = suicide in this game.

so you lead pushes without exposing yourself? ....how?

Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie, on 26 February 2020 - 04:14 AM, said:

whenever you drop into fw, there's a 11 vs 12 situation;
11 poor souls who have to carry your a$$, and 12 on the other side who are glad they don't have to.

it's often 10v12 because he brings his girl with him and she plays exactly the same

[PhoenixFire55]

Hazeclaw, on 26 February 2020 - 05:13 AM, said:

so you lead pushes without exposing yourself? ....how?

3D chess man, you wouldn't understand.

Hazeclaw, on 26 February 2020 - 05:13 AM, said:

it's often 10v12 because he brings his girl with him and she plays exactly the same

I hope I'm not going to ruin any families here, but I've actually ran across her a few times when she was by herself in QP. Now I can't be sure if it was actually her or LurmzMcKenzie playing on her account, but she was playing a non-LRM mech and playing like ... normal-like. *shrug*

[Kubernetes]

Hazeclaw, on 26 February 2020 - 05:13 AM, said:

so you lead pushes without exposing yourself? ....how?

Schrodinger's Exposure.

[Dr Cara Carcass]

Vellron2005, on 24 February 2020 - 03:27 AM, said:

So, I'm sure you've all seen these type of players lately..

You might have even heard of a few..

They stay waaaaaay back, sometimes even in or behind the spawn points, using extreme range weapons only, doing most nothing all match, yet, somehow have more damage than most other players.

They seem to contribute very little, yet the numbers say otherwise. Just like an bad Lurmer.

Also, they don't share armor.. just like lurmers..

And somehow, they don't get anyway near the level of salt that even a front-line, armor sharing lurmer gets?

Opinions?

You of all people shouldnt complain about ppl that are too far behind the team.

[Vxheous]

Hazeclaw, on 26 February 2020 - 05:13 AM, said:

it's often 10v12 because he brings his girl with him and she plays exactly the same

Wait, I was under the impression Vellron got his girlfriend involved in MWO so he would have a dedicated narcer?

[Prototelis]

Hazeclaw, on 26 February 2020 - 05:13 AM, said:

it's often 10v12 because he brings his girl with him and she plays exactly the same

Vxheous, on 26 February 2020 - 11:33 AM, said:

Wait, I was under the impression Vellron got his girlfriend involved in MWO so he would have a dedicated narcer?

Every time I've seen them together he has her bring a narc mech first wave.

Which might be cool, if it were a map where IDF locks from narc are assured death like Caustic or Polar, but they don't bring lrm to maps where they would be strong or where others are bringing them. They bring them every time, and it's a burden almost every time.

More often than not she narcs for him so he can more easily hit the buildings in maps like River city with his LRM king crab or some other thing that doesn't even do lurms well.

Edited by Prototelis, 26 February 2020 - 11:41 AM.