1579 replies to this topic

[IDGAFF]

Ok, last night played 2 matches on Polar Highlands! Belive it or not, I can't recall if there were any groups, but, they were quite enjoyable... Yes, I said it, enjoyable matches on Polar Highlands! haha!

[Constalation]

crazytimes, on 01 May 2020 - 04:39 PM, said:

'Ex' players with full mechbays and huge bankroll of credits and MC sitting there aren't doing anything for the games financial situation. Game needs new people willing to spend money. Cadets dropping in trail mechs against a bunch of experienced players is not encouraging them to hang around.

While this is true, there still has to be a bare minimum player count for new players to actually fight against. If old veterans can come back (I'm hoping for a 2~3man today with a whale and a relative newbie) and fill up the queue a bit better, it would still reduce any negative MM experiences since there would be more veterans to go around... Although considering that they threw out the baby(matchmaker) with the bathwater it probably won't work out that way.

Excessive Paranoia, on 01 May 2020 - 05:27 AM, said:

If I'm to believe what I've been reading here, the merge seems to have been accomplished by making solo players into groups of 1 and then maximizing group size at 4 with the whole thing actually using the group queue MM instead of the solo queue MM. If this is indeed true, the system has literally thrown out any attempt to balance the teams as the group queue (iirc... I could be wrong, but I did play a lot of group queue years ago) only concerns itself with making two 12-mech teams out of the available groups and make absolutely no accounting for anything other than group sizes. If they were going to do this correctly, they would have had to create a true merged system that allows one group of up to 4, who then either have their averaged tier, or the tier of the highest tier player, used to match them into an solo queue game where the same is done for the other side. This would have at least resulted in a decent approximation of a T1-T5 match while allowing a group to participate on each team.

As for point #2, many of us imagined this to be exactly as bad as its turning out to be. I've played this game on and off all the way back to beta and this is actually the way it used to be way back at the beginning (it's been so long I actually had to confirm it through searching, but I do vaguely remember it, along with lights getting tripped if they went within 50ft of a heavier mech...), and it was a constant source of complaints... for exactly the same reasons. Groups would drive the matches while the solo players would just kind of be along for the ride. Completely one-sided stomps were common, and there was just a lot of unhappiness surrounding it. Eventually they split solo queue off into its own entity and that's the way its been until now. I was kind of wondering why they didn't just revert to the old system, but its occurred to me that back then we had a hidden ELO system instead of the visible tier system with PSR, so I imagine the old code just wasn't compatible. Whatever the case, those of us who remember the old days knew exactly how this was going to turn out because we'd literally seen it before... it wasn't good then, and it isn't good now.

(EDIT: BTW, back then we even had a pretty decent ELO based matchmaker, not the glorified XP bar we have now, and even with a better (IMO much better) segregation of skill levels, it still lead to all the same problems, though at least then you didn't have high-skill groups stomping low-skill solos.)

Finally, I'm not assuming you would be the one bullying per se, but a coordinated group will always have an edge over uncoordinated pugs. Even setting that aside, we're not seeing only groups like yours where its just a couple of buddies dropping together for a few matches, but very often now we're getting groups of the very best units in the game dropping together into matches and literally farming the solo players. This would be bad enough if it were just tier 1 units dropping into tier 1 matches, where at least the other 16 players were likely good enough to at least hold their own, if not contribute, but there are apparently tier 5 players getting faced off against some of the best units in the game dropping as 4 mans... To me (and apparently many others), that sounds more like a recipe to get players to quit the game than any serious attempt to improve match quality.

I do remember the game before the new skill tree.(affinity based on mech variant sets owned) I played a couple soloQ matches yesterday and it wasn't nearly as bad as what you seemingly experienced. Then again maybe I've gotten a bit dull to individual player skill, what with the extra RNG my ping adds to games.

Do you think there is any way to get Duos working with SoloQ? Personally, I think there needs to be some way for a veteran and new player to queue together into a more casual experience. You just couldn't do that with how GroupQ was, what with 12 man units with full meta builds. Having Sync dropping as a requirement to play together was quite literally why I couldn't get people into this game. (Along with some of the grind before the income buff)

[Brain Cancer]

The beatings will continue until morale improves. (Note: 5+ GOON is the matchmaker's fault, not sync drops.)

Edited by Brain Cancer, 01 May 2020 - 06:35 PM.

[Brain Cancer]

This endless stompfest continues until a group of similar skill shows up, of course.



At that point, the victory seems to be determined by whoever hunts down the enemy elite lance first vs. trying to farm anything in sight. If that doesn't point to how imbalanced groups skew solo queue, what does?

[eeaus]

PGI, thanks for this change - can we keep it?

As a casual player, having tried and given up trying to get group games previously - been 18 months since the last frustrating attempt, group of 2 only, just managed to have 7 great, competitive games as a group of 2 with my brother.

Longest wait time was 30 secs - playing out of Australia.

Lot of fun - excellent work.

[Anomalocaris]

Brain Cancer, on 01 May 2020 - 06:51 PM, said:

This endless stompfest continues until a group of similar skill shows up, of course.

At that point, the victory seems to be determined by whoever hunts down the enemy elite lance first vs. trying to farm anything in sight. If that doesn't point to how imbalanced groups skew solo queue, what does?

These are about the only matches where the non-grouped players can have a significant influence. I don't recognize anyone from the red team, but Scout Derek is pretty good and when the groups are relatively even, the down lineup skill levels will make the difference IMO.

[ShooterMcGavin80]

DAEDALOS513, on 01 May 2020 - 03:14 PM, said:

Relatively speaking, does this update to the game mean all that much? In the grand scheme of things? This moment in time will come and go but the effect it has on you will last. Isn't it kinda silly that we are quibbling over an aging video game when the world is literally falling apart around us? Where we are at the mercy of those in power and quietly hope they have our best interests at heart?

If this update is upsetting you guys so much maybe it's time to take a step back, get some perspective and figure out what is truly important. I know we play this game as a way to escape reality but what's the point of escaping reality if it's still going to stress the sh*t out of you?

God this is pathetic. We have stressful jobs and we just want to enjoy a game where we blow up robots at the end of the day. But now we have 4-mans of elite 1%'rs ruining our fun. Don't you worry man, I and others will find other ways to relax, and then this game will die and you will have no stomps to do. Group queue got killed by curb stompers about a year ago, now the big fish have been given another small pond to play in.

I played a couple hours this afternoon and all was pretty normal for solo queue. Had some good games. Was about to even post that maybe this change wasn't so bad. Then when it gets into the evening the 4-mans come out. And the stomps start happening. And the worst is when they do trolling stomps, limiting their tonnage but still beat down the opposition. That is a special kind of humiliation. And by limiting their tonnage and making it more 'challenging', it may not register as a 'stomp' (because their team suffers more losses), but the fate was decided.

For the love of god PGI, please force the 1%'s back into 8-man group play and keep solo play solo play.

[Bastionk]

So, I've been having a lot of games that are genuinely close, 12-6 or 12-8. So my personal experience skews positive on this.

I see these screenshots of someone playing against GOON over and over again, which makes me think that while fixing the MM would be nice, in these instances it seems to be more about "who is online and in the queue". I've had no issue getting stuck playing against any single group over and over again.

So, they implement a MM that works, but how would that alleviate a population issue at certain times? It's not like they'd program it to never put top flight players with lower skill players if that is all that is available in the queue...

When I proposed this change(a few months back), I was trying to share an idea that would allow people to play together, especially with newer players, but mitigate the risk of repeated stomps(I'm referring to limiting group sizes to 4 and balancing groups on opposing teams). This seems like a decent compromise.

As for not allowing units to play against each other(because the normal group queue is no longer available), are private lobbies not available an option?

[Spare Knight]

ShooterMcGavin80, on 01 May 2020 - 07:09 PM, said:

I played a couple hours this afternoon and all was pretty normal for solo queue. Had some good games. Was about to even post that maybe this change wasn't so bad. Then when it gets into the evening the 4-mans come out. And the stomps start happening. And the worst is when they do trolling stomps, limiting their tonnage but still beat down the opposition. That is a special kind of humiliation. And by limiting their tonnage and making it more 'challenging', it may not register as a 'stomp' (because their team suffers more losses), but the fate was decided.

I had a great day as well, but when the evening rolled around, it got ugly. I finally gave up. I'll give another shot tomorrow.

[Brain Cancer]

Weight balance is an issue, too.



Winning team has eight assaults. Losing, four. Excellent kill securing for legionofvega as he managed 127 damage and yet managed to kill all three of the dead on the winning team, being the elite lance. I mean, how many people can say they killed all three of those in the same match?

[FRAGTAST1C]

Bastionk, on 01 May 2020 - 07:11 PM, said:

So, I've been having a lot of games that are genuinely close, 12-6 or 12-8. So my personal experience skews positive on this.

As for not allowing units to play against each other(because the normal group queue is no longer available), are private lobbies not available an option?

1. Define "a lot of games" 'cause there are hours and hours and hours and hours of VIDEO EVIDENCE from top MWO comp/Twitch streamers for you to analyze and remove any kind of bias you may have with your bad data taking device, i.e., "Personal Experience".

2. Private Lobbies don't offer rewards.

[Larsh]

Brain Cancer, on 01 May 2020 - 07:11 PM, said:

[Redacted]

You really don't read some of my past posts it seems as I mentioned this before, so I guess I will post it again.
--

I am not here to start an argument, and I am done being judgmental on other players in the game. My main focus at this point, is to be impartial this month, and to only post what I find.

One thing I will say is that I could had phrased "We don't care if we lose" better for myself and my group.

Instead, it should be, we play to win, and as a team, but we don't get upset if we lose. We play on to the next match to see how we can change our playstyle and improve. We enjoy playing against the odds.

--

If you want to point out that you think I'm ruining something, fine, but bring it to my PMs instead of bringing it into another flame war that doesn't progress any true discussion here.

[Brain Cancer]

Bastionk, on 01 May 2020 - 07:11 PM, said:

So, I've been having a lot of games that are genuinely close, 12-6 or 12-8. So my personal experience skews positive on this.

I see these screenshots of someone playing against GOON over and over again, which makes me think that while fixing the MM would be nice, in these instances it seems to be more about "who is online and in the queue". I've had no issue getting stuck playing against any single group over and over again.

My point's basically how badly one group of 4 can warp things for the game- today, that group went 31-4 and as you can see, carrying most of the way...with one really being an actual "skill matchup" with the 228 vs. GOON fight. They're the most extreme version of that I can find, but that's 32 wins that basically got determined by 4 people.

Larsh, on 01 May 2020 - 07:25 PM, said:

If you want to point out that you think I'm ruining something, fine, but bring it to my PMs instead of bringing it into another flame war that doesn't progress any true discussion here.

The reason it's a quote is because it wasn't my statement, but the people playing against you during that match.

[Larsh]

Brain Cancer, on 01 May 2020 - 07:26 PM, said:

The reason it's a quote is because it wasn't my statement, but the people playing against you during that match.

True, and point taken. I only bring it up as another user in the forum did this, and they mentioned that my posts in the past caused me to become the "target of opportunity" for this kind of playstyle.

If it's a quote from a stream, or match, but not in this screenshot without evidence, why bring it up then? When I see that, I just see another opportunity to take a quick jab.

I've made my peace, and I've decided to stop name calling a while ago with all this.

[Brauer]

Dee Eight, on 01 May 2020 - 05:15 PM, said:

Thats a standard tactic for many of us... instead of nascar to the right... go left and setup an ambush for the people on the other side doing the nascar. Let them come to you.... don't chase after them.. Its pretty much my default tactic any time I'm in a mech with ECM. Hell on some maps, depending on where I dropped, I might even do it without the ECM. There are many maps where players always push the same way from a particular side and they never bother to look to their right when stepping past corners.

What you're missing here is that having four players in suitable mechs grab a power position anywhere on a map can almost guarantee a win unless there is a strong team on the other side (which is highly unlikely at this point). For example, a four man in 6AC2 Rifleman IIcs can take wall on HPG, a number of different hills on Grim, High ground on the edge of Caustic, a number of positions on Canyon/Hibernal, a number of hills on Alpine, a variety of building tops on Mining, pretty much any small rise on Polar, etc. and dominate a game. Those aren't the only mechs capable of that either, but they're probably one of the easier ones to do it in.

Saying "Oh you could set one mech up against the direction of the NASCAR in old solo queue" is completely missing the point of the impact of a reasonably competent 4 player group on solo queue (much less a high level one).

Edited by Brauer, 01 May 2020 - 08:55 PM.

[ShooterMcGavin80]

Just played a game where a 4-man of SA guys on Polar highlands running 4 RLF-IIC-2's with 6xAC2's carried and stomped. Weird thing though was when we have just one pug left, they all pointed their arms at the sky and stopped shooting, even saying on the chat 'HANDS UP DON'T SHOOT'. I assume to let the enemy team get another kill or two.

Never saw anything like that nonsense happen when it was good ol' solo queue.

Disgraceful.

Edited by ShooterMcGavin80, 01 May 2020 - 08:06 PM.

[Liveish]

Brauer, on 01 May 2020 - 08:04 PM, said:

What your missing here is that having four players in suitable mechs grab a power position anywhere on a map can almost guarantee a win unless there is a strong team on the other side (which is highly unlikely at this point)

Do you mean a good team can, bad teams can not?

This change has been good, played 3 hours last night and 2 hours today and only 1 person bitched about it in game.

Games was 100% better then 1 year ago.

[Brain Cancer]

I'd like to also point out must obviously be a clearly unbalanced weapon whose use is further destabilizing the new grolo queue.

Clan AC/2's. Not inferior UAC or LBX-2s. Standard, Paul-made Clan AC/2s. Taken into the game in large numbers to stomp less equipped opponents! I mean, first they strap them on Rifleman IICs and kill 9/12 of the enemy team, making sure to focus down the one elite AC/2 carrier on the enemy team. RIP Dakkalistic.



Then, they do it again, only worse. Clearly, the matchmaker is working well here as seven of the most OP 'Mechs in the game gather together and once again, kill three-quarters of the enemy team by themselves. The only thing slowing them down is it was Frozen City under blizzard conditions.

[IDGAFF]

Well, until this whole issue of weight classes spawning in the lances they should, I am done at least in Quick Play... Perhaps I'll give Fraction Play a shot as a solo... Might enjoy it more, but, the damn que times are stupid... So, that might not happen either...

[Brauer]

live1991, on 01 May 2020 - 08:16 PM, said:

Do you mean a good team can, bad teams can not?

This change has been good, played 3 hours last night and 2 hours today and only 1 person bitched about it in game.

Games was 100% better then 1 year ago.

All I was doing there is pointing out that in old solo queue having one player set up in a power position, or try to get the team to do so was very different from a strong team doing so and nearly guaranteeing a win. One player in a power position in old solo queue could be very helpful, but did not lead to wins 90% of the time or more.

We've discussed what I think of this before. I think it's wrecked the solo experience and don't see much reason to jump into a group queue without first grouping up. My experience so far has also been that matchmaking has been pretty abysmal with both even larger skill and tonnage disparities than the prior solo queue matchmaker (which admittedly randomly stacked teams with frequency). I haven't seen cadets in solo queue in ages, but I've been seeing them now.