1579 replies to this topic

[Snowhawk]

Dee Eight, on 01 May 2020 - 07:19 AM, said:

Yes he's sure... PGI simply stated that the maximum was 4 people in a single group element, it didn't say that the maximum people grouped up together in different elements that could end up on a team was also 4.

Ok, English is not my main language, but here is the Quote from the orginial pgi post: " When the Match Maker builds a 12-player team, it will ensure that there is no more than one 4 player group or as close as possible (2 player + 2 player for example) per team and all remaining slots will be filled with solo Players."

I still have the feeling that they wanted to limit the premades up to 4 players per side. Maybe I am wrong (I saw the ingame screenshots).

[Tsavrus]

Yey mwo is fun again!

[Larsh]

Snowhawk, on 01 May 2020 - 11:16 AM, said:

Ok, English is not my main language, but here is the Quote from the orginial pgi post: " When the Match Maker builds a 12-player team, it will ensure that there is no more than one 4 player group or as close as possible (2 player + 2 player for example) per team and all remaining slots will be filled with solo Players."

I still have the feeling that they wanted to limit the premades up to 4 players per side. Maybe I am wrong (I saw the ingame screenshots).

I tend to wonder if some groups still sync up with some solos to see if they can get a bigger group. Not saying they are doing it to cheat the system, but I saw some streamers do it when they were in a group to sync up with some people that were tuning in.

Edited by Larsh, 01 May 2020 - 11:22 AM.

[Anomalocaris]

DAEDALOS513, on 01 May 2020 - 09:34 AM, said:

Because at it's heart MWO is a teambased game.. this is where it excels.. unlike COD and other shooters where players just rush in to die cuz they know they will respawn in 10 seconds, MWO is a thinking man's shooter where good positioning and coordination wins matches.

[Redacted]
Unless you're playing Solaris 1v1, every single drop in MWO is part of a team. Teams of 2, 4, 8 or 12 (RIP Scouting I guess).

What _you're_ saying is that your concept of team play is how everyone should be forced to play. Not 12 randoms grouped by a matchmaker going against 12 more randoms. Nope, people should form a pre-made, synergize and drop because that's _your_ idea of ideal teamwork.

Despite the fact that if PGI had done all this 6 years ago, you probably would have had to stop playing 4-5 years ago. WoT and WoW don't require you be part of a unit or clan, but you still have to work with a team of 15 or 12 or 7 to win a battle, just like in MWO. The idea that people should be forced to conform to your idea of teams is laughable.

[Horseman]

Brauer, on 01 May 2020 - 09:06 AM, said:

What minority might that be?

The one PGI imagines to represent the wishes of their playerbase. There were always a few people screaming for one change or another... Solaris included.

DAEDALOS513, on 01 May 2020 - 09:21 AM, said:

Actually for now, with the low population, yes it is a priviledge.. we're all lucky to be able to drop with friends.

Again, why should competitive players be subject to restrictions that the rest of the playerbase is not?

Anomalocaris, on 01 May 2020 - 10:38 AM, said:

Why do you think you couldn't get matches? It wasn't because group was super popular and there were no slots left, right? It was because not enough people wanted to play. Hence it wasn't popular. Don't know how many people wanted to play, but it wasn't enough to fill the queue.

To be fair, we never knew how many groups - and of what sizes - were in the queue so we don't know for sure if it was a lack of groups or a poorly designed matchmaker always trying to fill in the largest group and not trying to build matches using the rest of the queue if that was't possible (which has been my suspicion for some time).

Grumpy Old Man, on 01 May 2020 - 10:57 AM, said:

If you are a 95%+ player, or above X in average match score, you do not get to form or join a 4 Person or 3 Person group. Sorry, you are SOL. Play in a team of 2 at best. If you are 80%+ player or above Y in average match score, you do not get to form or join a 4 Person. Play in a Team of 2-3 at best. Everybody lower gets to form full groups.

Would that solve the lopsided match issues? I dunno. Just putting it out there and seeing what people think.

Dude, no. Being able to group up and play with more than one of their friends at a time is not an exclusive priviledge of casuals. Thank you.

Snowhawk, on 01 May 2020 - 11:16 AM, said:

Ok, English is not my main language, but here is the Quote from the orginial pgi post: " When the Match Maker builds a 12-player team, it will ensure that there is no more than one 4 player group or as close as possible (2 player + 2 player for example) per team and all remaining slots will be filled with solo Players."
I still have the feeling that they wanted to limit the premades up to 4 players per side. Maybe I am wrong (I saw the ingame screenshots).

"as close as possible" might include 3 player + 3 player. (EDIT: Or, as I actually meant to write, 3 player + 2 player)

Edited by Horseman, 02 May 2020 - 12:28 AM.

[CFC Conky]

Hello all,

So I've been playing for the last few days and here's what I've found.

First, I haven't had any 10-12 match losing streaks like before, stomps still happen, but on a more even basis. Groups have been a mixed bag, some very good, others not so much. Matches are more random sometimes chaotic, other times very organized and focused. There is a lot less nascar.

Some groups are out to club baby seals like me, but it hasn't been as bad as the few times I played GQ. I've seen many posts from high-skill players saying that clubbing seals is boring. To them I would suggest that if you want better gameplay you're going to have to communicate more (many of you already do, and I thank you for it). It's going to be frustrating for you, I get that, but we solo targets have kept out of your GQ sandbox until now, in my case because I'm not very good. Now you are in ours, and respectfully, you might just have to adjust your play style to accommodate us, not the other way around.

Or just keep stomping on our faces/giving us grief on comms/etc, you do you .

It's still early in the test period, let's see how it goes.

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

Edited by CFC Conky, 01 May 2020 - 11:49 AM.

[Brauer]

CFC Conky, on 01 May 2020 - 11:43 AM, said:

Hello all,

So I've been playing for the last few days and here's what I've found.

First, I haven't had any 10-12 match losing streaks like before, stomps still happen, but on a more even basis. Groups have been a mixed bag, some very good, others not so much. Matches are more random sometimes chaotic, other times very organized and focused. There is a lot less nascar.

Some groups are out to club baby seals like me, but it hasn't been as bad as the few time I played GQ. I've seen many posts from high-skill players that clubbing seals is boring. To them I would suggest that if you want better gameplay you're going to have to communicate more (many of you already do, and I thank you for it). It's going to be frustrating for you, I get that, but we solo targets have kept out of your GQ sandbox until now, in my case because I'm not very good. Now you are in ours, and respectfully, you might just have to adjust your play style to accommodate us, not the other way around.

Or just keep stomping on our faces/giving us grief on comms/etc, you do you .

It's still early in the test period, let's see how it goes.

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

I think you're misunderstanding some things here.

1) a lot of high level players have always played a decent amount of QP.
2) a four man of high level players doesn't really need to coordinate with their team members to win matches the majority of the time
3) many high level players have attempted to call QP in the past and are sick and tired of doing so because calls are not heeded and/or players who do not perform well argue with objectively correct calls and are dead set against employing winning strategies
4) sometimes when people say they want high level players to call a match what they seem to mean is that they want the match micromanaged. This is generally not realistic or enjoyable. Please note, I do not mean to say you are expressing this idea, just that it exists.

In many cases it just makes more sense and is more enjoyable to chat on discord and coordinate with people you know and can trust, rather than try to build trust with the 8 random players you've been matched with and direct them toward success. I do make calls across in-game VoIP with some frequency, but it is not necessary, enjoyable, or imo reasonable to expect the group in a GQ/SQ game to call it for everyone.

Edited by Brauer, 01 May 2020 - 12:16 PM.

[CFC Conky]

Brauer, on 01 May 2020 - 11:53 AM, said:

I think you're misunderstanding some things here.

1) a lot of high level players have always played a decent amount of QP.
2) a four man of high level players doesn't really need to coordinate with their team members to win matches the majority of the time
3) many high level players have attempted to call QP in the past and are sick and tired of doing so because calls are not heeded and/or players who do not perform well argue with objectively correct calls and are dead set against employing winning strategies
4) sometimes when people say they want high level players to call a match what they seem to mean is that they want the match micromanaged. This is generally not realistic or enjoyable. Please not, I do not mean to say you are expressing this idea, just that it exists.

In many cases it just makes more sense and is more enjoyable to chat on discord and coordinate with people you know and can trust, rather than try to build trust with the 8 random players you've been matched with and direct them toward success. I do make calls across in-game VoIP with some frequency, but it is not necessary, enjoyable, or imo reasonable to expect the group in a GQ/SQ game to call it for everyone.

Hi Brauer,

I agree with everything you say, if merged queues are here to stay, some adjustments will have to be made by all of us to the most out of the game.

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

Edited by CFC Conky, 01 May 2020 - 12:09 PM.

[Weeny Machine]

Larsh, on 01 May 2020 - 11:21 AM, said:

I tend to wonder if some groups still sync up with some solos to see if they can get a bigger group. Not saying they are doing it to cheat the system, but I saw some streamers do it when they were in a group to sync up with some people that were tuning in.

Well, here are a few things which happened.
A few times teamed up dudes laughed at people while bragging about having actually 5-7 buddies in the match. Well, it was a roll each time... so fun...

Two times (which is really low) they had a dude in our team while 4 were on the other team and he ran off and did nonsense stuff (in one case he actively even hurt our team by moving behind friendlies so they couldn't get out of the fire).

I hope someone reported it because I can't be bothered to do so anymore.


So, it seems it is even easier now to abuse the system. You just need to make a 4 group and sync drop with solo buddies.

Edited by Weeny Machine, 01 May 2020 - 12:26 PM.

[The Teddy Bear]

Weeny Machine, on 01 May 2020 - 12:23 PM, said:

Well, here are a few things which happened.
A few times teamed up dudes laughed at people while bragging about having actually 5-7 buddies in the match. Well, it was a roll each time... so fun...

Two times (which is really low) they had a dude in our team while 4 were on the other team and he ran off and did nonsense stuff (in one case he actively even hurt our team by moving behind friendlies so they couldn't get out of the fire).

I hope someone reported it because I can't be bothered to do so anymore.


So, it seems it is even easier now to abuse the system. You just need to make a 4 group and sync drop with solo buddies.

I just wondered last night how long it would take for cowards to figure this out.

[DAEDALOS513]

Anomalocaris, on 01 May 2020 - 12:15 PM, said:

Just so we're clear. Your way resulted in a dead group queue, and now you're demanding we do the same in solo. Got it. Because the reason it failed before wasn't a lack of interest, just improper execution, right? Sounds like a "No True Scotsman" argument to me.

You keep saying group play wasn't popular and that's the only reason it became unplayable. Obviously you weren't around during MWO's heyday.. it truly was something to behold. Group queue was the heart and soul of the game Units clashing against units, each with their own playstyle and personality.. battling for glory of their tag; Each match fighting a different group rather than the same one over and over (which is what started to happen as population dwindled). It brings a tear to my eye thinking about it..

Group queue died because many of the established population left the game over decisions and priorities PGI made during the life of the game. Some of which included lack of producing game modes.. (the 3 game modes that do exist are winnable by playing them the same way.. skirmish style.. to do otherwise actually hurts your chances of winning). Lack of new maps was another.. (as good as our maps are.. they get tiresome playing them over the years, especially in the same skirmish-style game mode). They really should release all the classic maps.. even implement the faction warfare maps into qp.

Combine lower population with the fact that group queue has more requirements to be met before a match can be set up.. (tonnage, tier, group size matching).. as the population dwindled, the wait times increased for group queue. It was this wait-time that ultimately killed group queue.. not lack of interest. Eventually, people started sync dropping into solo queue rather than wait 5 minutes for a match because, who has time for that?

You can insist that solo queue is more popular, or that group queue isn't, all you want.. you just sound silly to those who have been around long enough to know better.

Edited by DAEDALOS513, 01 May 2020 - 12:44 PM.

[Grumpy Old Man]

Horseman, on 01 May 2020 - 11:32 AM, said:

Dude, no. Being able to group up and play with more than one of their friends at a time is not an exclusive priviledge of casuals. Thank you.

I always thought that Quick Play was for the Casuals and Faction Warfare is the end game for the high end crowd. I keep reading people need to "git gud" to play Faction and that they should stay in QP until they are. Sounds to me that if you are already "gud", you play Faction unless you do not have enough people to play with - then you play solo queue?

What I get from the discussions above, Tonnage restrictions are not going to do jack all. 4 high end players could drop in Locusts and dominate. While 4 Cadets may not be much of a danger even if they all pilot Annihilators...

So we obviously need to have some restrictions to this game mode. Ideally something that solves the stomp problem one way or another. If a 4 person Comp Team drops, they are going to win 99% of the time. If you force them to split into 2x2 Teams, you at least have a chance for them to end up on opposite sides...

I feel like most of the stuff I see here as far as suggestions go is unrealistic, considering how much programming effort (or lack thereof) PGI is willing to spend on this game. We all want matches, we all want to have fun. But the casuals and solos have no other option than quick play. The high end crowd does. And until this week, they did not have a problem with dropping solo in the quick play queue. Or if they did, they played Faction instead.

Either way, something needs to give. And after playing games online for over 20 years, I expect it will be the casuals and solo droppers otherwise. Because they have no ties to the game. If they did, they would not play solo.

[Anomalocaris]

DAEDALOS513, on 01 May 2020 - 12:38 PM, said:

You keep saying group play wasn't popular and that's the only reason it became unplayable. Obviously you weren't around during MWO's heyday.. it truly was something to behold. Group queue was the heart and soul of the game Units clashing against units, each with their own playstyle and personality.. battling for glory of their tag; Each match fighting a different group rather than the same one over and over. It brings a tear to my eye thinking about it..

Group queue died because many of the established population left the game over decisions and priorities PGI made during the life of the game. Some of which included lack of producing game modes.. (the 3 game modes that do exist are winnable by playing them the same way.. skirmish style.. to do otherwise hurts your chances of winning). Lack of new maps was another.. (as good as our maps are.. they get tiresome playing them over the years, especially in the same skirmish-style game mode).

Combine lower population with the fact that group queue has more requirements to be met before a match can be set up.. (tonnage, tier, group size matching).. as the population dwindled, the wait times increased for group queue. It was this wait-time that ultimately killed group queue.. not lack of interest. People started to sync drop rather than wait 5 minutes for a match because who has time for that?

You can insist that solo queue is more popular or that group queue isn't all you want.. you just sound silly to those who have been around long enough to know better.

You making these arguments that have no relevance (and in many cases are precisely wrong). Group queue did not have tonnage matching or tier requirements at all (unlike solo). Rather the very nature of group tonnage limitation meant that one team could have vastly more tonnage than another (as we are seeing now). In fact the only requirement was that the matchmaker be able to assemble 2 groups of 12.

And by the very definition of the word, if A is more popular than B, A is more liked, desired or enjoyed than B. If group were more popular than solo, then group would not have died while solo kept churning out matches every 1-2 min. And if all group needed were some solos to fill the gaps in team count, PGI probably would've done that instead of this horror show.

You can talk about how great group was, or how its the soul of the game, or the ethos of teamwork or whatever twaddle you want to toss about. But simple facts tell you more people wanted to play solo than group, because that's exactly what happened. You can't rewrite history.

[DAEDALOS513]

Anomalocaris, on 01 May 2020 - 12:49 PM, said:

You making these arguments that have no relevance (and in many cases are precisely wrong). Group queue did not have tonnage matching or tier requirements at all (unlike solo). Rather the very nature of group tonnage limitation meant that one team could have vastly more tonnage than another (as we are seeing now). In fact the only requirement was that the matchmaker be able to assemble 2 groups of 12.

And by the very definition of the word, if A is more popular than B, A is more liked, desired or enjoyed than B. If group were more popular than solo, then group would not have died while solo kept churning out matches every 1-2 min. And if all group needed were some solos to fill the gaps in team count, PGI probably would've done that instead of this horror show.

You can talk about how great group was, or how its the soul of the game, or the ethos of teamwork or whatever twaddle you want to toss about. But simple facts tell you more people wanted to play solo than group, because that's exactly what happened. You can't rewrite history.

I guess you know better than me.. your mind is made up and that's cool.. I just ask that you stop posting the same thing over and over as it's getting tiresome.

Edited by DAEDALOS513, 01 May 2020 - 01:59 PM.

[Nearly Dead]

Just came off a 1-12 stomp where we dropped with 2 fleas and 4 Locusts. I didn't get a screen shot, but I saw several assaults on the other team. Last night on HPG we had 6 assaults on the other team and none on ours.

I realize getting the groups to play is priority #1, but completely ignoring what mechs are dropping just because they have matching unit names attached is a bit absurd. Again, an example from yesterday; 5 Stalkers, 4 exact matches with the same unit marker plus an oddball, probably a solo player.

I think resentment is going to start building over all of the not fun games, there are just too many negative aspects to playing this right now.

[nuttyrat]

Larsh, on 01 May 2020 - 11:21 AM, said:

I tend to wonder if some groups still sync up with some solos to see if they can get a bigger group. Not saying they are doing it to cheat the system, but I saw some streamers do it when they were in a group to sync up with some people that were tuning in.

That is the purpose of sync dropping on stream; to try and play either with or against people in your audience. That is what I do normally, and what I did with my first test last night (Thursday Night). When I sync the purpose is never to try and stack the team (you can't control that with sync drops) but to increase the chance of having an enhanced gaming experience with my audience, regardless of where they land. It just so happened that I had a lot of viewers from both the casual and competitive community that night, so it made the night interesting.

[Khobai]

Given the choice I would much rather have 8v8 solo queue than 12v12 mixed queue

8v8 is far more balanced than 12v12. It significantly buffs light and medium mechs and strengthens brawling while weakening longrange gunlines.

Group queue is absolute cancer and should be kept as far away from solo queue as possible.

[Mycroft000]

This seems to me like a bandaid fix to address a complete lack of effort to push interest in the game by doing nothing with it beyond keeping the servers functioning.

...

I was going to go into more detail but nobody's listening anyway so there's not really any value in taking the time to do it.

[Marquis De Lafayette]

I took a month off the game and forums and come back this this idea being implemented....wow.... I probably should have enjoyed solo queue while it lasted.

What I am failing to understand is how PGI could not obviously understand that the merging the queues would inevitably lead to the best players running in small teams (instead of dropping solo) with other great players and just rolling solos and teams of tier 1 average joes (tier is xp bar) that happen to line up against them. Top players are a most often a handful in solo queue as it was (and their high W/L and K/D showed that) ...now we are going to let 4 top players drop together against the un-washed masses of pugdom and this is as Paul says to make things more “competitive”...I have no words.... the only comparison that comes close is that this is like the Long Tom (the FW disaster) for the solo queue....Its supposed to make the game more interesting,, but immediately you know this isn’t going to work at all the way PGI thinks and it’s not going to be good for queues. Solos and average joe teams are going to have a bad time with this...

[Mycroft000]

nuttyrat, on 01 May 2020 - 01:00 PM, said:

That is the purpose of sync dropping on stream; to try and play either with or against people in your audience. That is what I do normally, and what I did with my first test last night (Thursday Night). When I sync the purpose is never to try and stack the team (you can't control that with sync drops) but to increase the chance of having an enhanced gaming experience with my audience, regardless of where they land. It just so happened that I had a lot of viewers from both the casual and competitive community that night, so it made the night interesting.

Back when we were active 6of6 always had more fun with our sync drops when we were against each other than when we were on the same side