100 replies to this topic

[MadcatX]

Anomalocaris, on 20 June 2020 - 08:22 AM, said:

https://steamcharts.com/app/342200

And it will only get worse as the big holiday weekend last month drops off the last 30 day numbers. I expect to be down 8-10% by the end of June.

I wouldn't rely on steamcharts this time around, you'll have the normal decline across all games because of summer and I suspect an even larger decline as people want to get the heck out of their houses as many places in the world are or already have lifted their lockdown rules because of the 'vid. Doesn't mean there isn't a decline in MW:O pop, just that charts arn't a good way of demonstrating it at this particular moment.

[Anomalocaris]

That's fine, but then all the group queue junkies that ruined solo queue can't argue that the gains last month were due to queue changes. Point is we were going up at a steady rate for months before the merge, and now we're dropping. Either way, the merged queue sucks and needs to go away. It will kill the game faster because it isn't possible for PGI, with their limitations, to balance teams with groups and solos mixed.

I'm going on 2 months without playing now. I've lost about 90% of my desire to play the game at this point. And pretty soon there will be no chance of getting all the folks like me back no matter what PGI tries.

[Tarl Cabot]

Anomalocaris, on 20 June 2020 - 02:44 PM, said:

That's fine, but then all the group queue junkies that ruined solo queue can't argue that the gains last month were due to queue changes. Point is we were going up at a steady rate for months before the merge, and now we're dropping. Either way, the merged queue sucks and needs to go away. It will kill the game faster because it isn't possible for PGI, with their limitations, to balance teams with groups and solos mixed.

I'm going on 2 months without playing now. I've lost about 90% of my desire to play the game at this point. And pretty soon there will be no chance of getting all the folks like me back no matter what PGI tries.

The issue with groups is that it is setup like the group queue with weight limits but those weight limits do not work in the combined queue. Competitive/I want to win while having fun will bring the big boys while the average "whatever, I want to shoot things" boys drop way below weight.. ugghhh, urbie brigade and come in at the bottom of the scoring, only ahead of any DC player.

Even after the Tier/PSR reset, the above will not change, which then also means the it makes it tougher for the MM to match weights/classes, whatever PGI is doing with that. It should go to 1/weight class and, imho to max 3/group. Will that change the competitive groups behavior? No but it will remove the ability to bring the max 2 assaults, while potentially put more weight on the field for the "good ole boys" groups, which would allow me to use them more as meatshields while they piddle around, with the attitude of I wanted to play with my friends but friends left cause we would get creamed in group queue...

[MadcatX]

Tarl Cabot, on 21 June 2020 - 09:23 AM, said:

Even after the Tier/PSR reset, the above will not change, which then also means the it makes it tougher for the MM to match weights/classes, whatever PGI is doing with that. It should go to 1/weight class and, imho to max 3/group. Will that change the competitive groups behavior? No but it will remove the ability to bring the max 2 assaults, while potentially put more weight on the field for the "good ole boys" groups, which would allow me to use them more as meatshields while they piddle around, with the attitude of I wanted to play with my friends but friends left cause we would get creamed in group queue...

I still don't know why they DIDN'T go with max 3/group, four is too much. The return of group play in some capacity brought me back into the game. Didn't leave for several years because I was afraid of getting creamed, left because wait times in GQ had become unbearable.

And if they ever decide to go back to solo queue, well, I'll leave again but I really won't complain about it on the forums because the backbone of all F2P games is it's solo community so if PGI went back to full solo, can't really get mad for their decision.

[Bowelhacker]

From my experience the stomps are a little worse, but that's never been a huge issue for me anyway. What is sucking the fun out for me is the lack of anything new. No new mechs, no new maps, nothing but frigging siege in FP. It's getting kind of tedious.

[Weeny Machine]

I deinstalled a couple of weeks ago when it was clear that they will pull the group/solo merge through despite a horrible experience the change brought (at least for me). The games got horrible and often were rolls one way or the other. Both ways were not enjoyable.

Add to that, that mech and build diversity went down the drains with the change.

If they think it is a good idea to put the majority at a drawback, just because of a minority - well, it is PGI's decision. But on the long run I am sure it will force more people out than bring back - at the latest when the ones who profit now suddenly realize they are the new cannon fodder because most solo players left. I mean, there is a reason why GQ was dead.

Edited by Weeny Machine, 22 June 2020 - 05:28 AM.

[R Valentine]

Tarl Cabot, on 21 June 2020 - 09:23 AM, said:

The issue with groups is that it is setup like the group queue with weight limits but those weight limits do not work in the combined queue. Competitive/I want to win while having fun will bring the big boys while the average "whatever, I want to shoot things" boys drop way below weight.. ugghhh, urbie brigade and come in at the bottom of the scoring, only ahead of any DC player.

Even after the Tier/PSR reset, the above will not change, which then also means the it makes it tougher for the MM to match weights/classes, whatever PGI is doing with that. It should go to 1/weight class and, imho to max 3/group. Will that change the competitive groups behavior? No but it will remove the ability to bring the max 2 assaults, while potentially put more weight on the field for the "good ole boys" groups, which would allow me to use them more as meatshields while they piddle around, with the attitude of I wanted to play with my friends but friends left cause we would get creamed in group queue...

Weight has never been an issue for me. There are just as many terrible assault pilots as their are terrible light pilots, and both evaporate in the blink of an eye if you make a bad enough mistake. Imposing even stricter weight limitations will only make the game less for everyone involved. Yes, the "urbie brigade" is usually a dumb lance composition, but where else in the game can you do that now? Scouting and group queue are both gone, so other than soup Q you can't play weirdo lances at all. That's the consequence of merging the queues. We lost game content, we didn't gain any.

[Tarl Cabot]

Weeny Machine, on 22 June 2020 - 05:26 AM, said:

snip...

Add to that, that mech and build diversity went down the drains with the change.

If they think it is a good idea to put the majority at a drawback, just because of a minority - well, it is PGI's decision. But on the long run I am sure it will force more people out than bring back - at the latest when the ones who profit now suddenly realize they are the new cannon fodder because most solo players left. I mean, there is a reason why GQ was dead.

That is one of the reasons I believe it should go to 1/weight class and drop it to max 3. Lance+ would have faction play (hint hint), and organized events/competitions. Sadly PGI may not be able to implement a 1/weight class due to their coding, ie it is not unique and would have ramifications in other queues, unless there is another check while trying to drop in the combined QP. If an issue then dropping it 3-max then tinkering with the min/max would help alleviate majority of it.

And the above is also about the perception, whether it is 3 urbies, 3 arctic wolves or 2 Annis + with unit colors, and with the change, the other team will know they would not be facing multiples of the same mech in the same group, good or bad, even while reviewing the group on their side.

As for myself, any concerns I have of the combined queue I am sitting at the 60-40 of liking the combined queue but that would increase if the above changes were made. Even now, when there is even an okay group, there tends to be more communication/direction, and the the few times it does happen and I am on the side that got stomped, the other team was aggressive at the start. There has been a few games, where both sizes were initially aggressive then pulled back/rotated away from each other. These tend to be the close games.

Stomps happen due to one side being more aggressive, more as a team, potentially communicating than the other side, more so while formed up then the losing side starts retreating/running away, but usually retreating without actually trading fire which feeds the blood frenzy.

Look at the MWOC series. 8vs8 but weren't many of the encounters more one-sided than not?

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 22 June 2020 - 06:37 AM.

[Vellron2005]

Blue Pheonix, on 17 June 2020 - 09:38 AM, said:

While I consider myself just and average player, according to Jarl's list I am an above average player and a player who has played for years with over 16,000 games played. I say this to give some context to what I am about to say. I have played a lot and while not a great player I am not terrible and I am statistically not the reason for my team's losses.

I am considering walking away from the game permanently because of the broken matchmaker and inclusion of teams being allowed in PUG matches. A declining player base probably is not helping seeding algorithms either. Teams allowed in PUG play using Teams speak (or other VOIP chat where players can communicate strategy and focus targets) really does give a tremendous advantage to either a win or loss. Such advantages diminishes game play experience for both sides. In short, stomp wins and stomp losses are simply not rewarding.

For me, and I can only speak for myself, the recent changes or declining player base has tanked my W/L percentage, matchscores, fun and game play experience with tremendously lopsided games in either direction (both win and loss) with most of my game now in the loss column.

When I say lopsided and stomps I mean it, regardless of PGI saying it is only an increase of 5%. Regular games where I will win or lose with common game outcome sequences such as 12-2, 4-12, 0-12, 2-12, 12-5, 12-0, 6-12, 5-12 etc. but not in any particular order. My team very often folds and dies off so quickly like a cheap suit. This of course tanks my stats and of course leads to tremedous losses and the regular feeling of being dominated regardless of my effort, mech piloted or weight class piloted. I have tried piloting all weight classes, light, medium, heavy, assault but the outcomes and dominations remain the same. While these things have happened in years past of course, the frequency that I observe it now has greatly increased.

I appreciate close games win or lose. While it is of course true that I would like to win, I would rather lose a close fun game then win a stomp. Too many stomps in either direction now with what seems like many losses for me starting at the end of last month and this month.

I'm considering hanging up the MWO hat and deleting the game as I have often used MWO as a way to escape lifes stresses, not add to them by consistently getting dominated. My stress level with MWO PUG games has increased greatly as of the last month or two because of being dominated and decreased gameplay experience.

Perhaps it is just my experience and it is just me. Anyone else experiencing what I am describing?

Oh, look.. another rage quit thread..

Yes we, know, the game is dying..

Aaaaaanyways...

Bye.

[Weeny Machine]

Vellron2005, on 22 June 2020 - 08:08 AM, said:

Oh, look.. another rage quit thread..

Yes we, know, the game is dying..

Aaaaaanyways...

Bye.

Yeah, the game is clearly prospering.

[Kubernetes]

I've been away a few months but played about a dozen games this past week. Match quality and player quality seem about the same as before. Some stomps, some close matches, some in between. Same same.

[Captain Alt F4]

Blue Pheonix, on 17 June 2020 - 09:38 AM, said:

Perhaps it is just my experience and it is just me. Anyone else experiencing what I am describing?

Yes I am as well. Like you, I think I'm fairly average. Not a great player, but a solid contributor to most matches. However recently my KDR is tanking, and I'm getting a lot of 12/0 and 12/3. As I write this I've played 7 games tonight. 1 win. The first 6 games I played assault mechs. However they are basically unplayable in the current meta of NASCAR ™. Take the Annihilator or Fafnir mechs - capable of huge amounts of fire power but exceptionally slow. Most matches I'm torn apart within the opening minutes of the game before even being able to find cover. The rest of the team is often 1000 meters away on their first Nascar lap.

Now granted you occasionally get teams that play as teams and form firing lines on the assaults but this is very rare.

I no longer enjoy playing assaults, and in fact have found myself sadly very salty in matches these days which is not like me at all. This takes away enjoyment of the game.

Occasionally I'll hit a nail biting 12/9 12/10 or 12/11 game... maybe one every few hours. That's what keeps me coming back, but as much as I like big stompy robots one good match for every 3 hours of frustration may not be enough.

[Thorn Hallis]

OZHomerOZ, on 19 June 2020 - 11:21 AM, said:

You don't show up on Jarls List at all, so I can not verify what you said was fact.

Oh yeah right, I forgot. My game account is Chemin de Haine. ^^

[Tier5 Kerensky]

My WL rate has taken a very noticable hit because of the joined queues too. Initially during first two weeks or so, I lost most of the games. It's slowly been slightly better now, maybe because I've played different mechs than my usual one. Match score has dropped too but I wouldn't care about that as much.

I used to have about 50-55% winrate but in about last 12 months, it's been occasionally much higher. Until this queue thing.

[Anomalocaris]

And the hits keep coming....I might have been a little low on my estimate of losses for June.

https://steamcharts.com/app/342200#1m

[MadcatX]

Anomalocaris, on 23 June 2020 - 12:15 PM, said:

And the hits keep coming....I might have been a little low on my estimate of losses for June.

https://steamcharts.com/app/342200#1m

If you compare this June's -7.55% loss compared to June in the past 4 years, it's lowest percent loss.

[OneTeamPlayer]

MadcatX, on 23 June 2020 - 03:33 PM, said:

If you compare this June's -7.55% loss compared to June in the past 4 years, it's lowest percent loss.

The patient has been bleeding for nearly an hour, but great news the blood loss from the still open wound is slowing!

[Anomalocaris]

MadcatX, on 23 June 2020 - 03:33 PM, said:

If you compare this June's -7.55% loss compared to June in the past 4 years, it's lowest percent loss.

Kind of reaching there aren't you? Different places in the game, but the recent 3 month growth spurt followed one of, if not the worst streaks of players losses in the history of the game, dropping players for 10 out of 11 months.

And June's not over yet. It's going to get worse....

[Grumpy Old Man]

Kroete, on 20 June 2020 - 06:42 AM, said:

There is no queue left, where i can avoid groups against solo,
so i must avoid this game now.
Pitty, but no problem.


Iam curious how many solo players will do the same over the time,
particulary when they realize that all that matchmaker talk is ********
and all valves will be open with that low playercount and 5 tiers.

Well, I for one tested the mixed queue a good bit when it first came out, using 2 different accounts. After a string of matches where several 1%er groups curb stomped us in a row and completely losing my ****, I stopped playing.

Tried to see whether anything changed last weekend and got 3 matches in over 2 days. Came up against groups with only Solo's on my side. Shook my head and logged off again. So I have played 3 matches in the past 5 weeks.

I for one am wondering when the solo players get tired of this enough to either leave or try their hand at grouping. Seeing as you need anything between 14 and 22 solo players (ie: The majority of players in the match), having more group players than solo players will not make this queue viable anymore.

[Kroete]

Grumpy Old Man, on 23 June 2020 - 10:24 PM, said:

I for one am wondering when the solo players get tired of this enough to either leave or try their hand at grouping. Seeing as you need anything between 14 and 22 solo players (ie: The majority of players in the match), having more group players than solo players will not make this queue viable anymore.

The percent of groupplayers are rising, not because solo players try grouping ...

Edited by Kroete, 24 June 2020 - 12:21 AM.