690 replies to this topic

[Sare204]

I think The Firestarter could use a little love, even though it already has a lot of variants in game. With the Civil War timeline advancement we have some canon Variants to add that could add some life back into this often forgotten chassis.

-Re-scale would help this mech out tremendously.

FS9-C
6x Missile Hardpoints (2 Rocket15, 4 Rocket10)
4x Energy Hardpoints (2 Flamers, 2 mLas,

FS9-P
2x Missile Hardpoints (SRM2)
8x Energy Hardpoints (4 Flamers, 2 mLas, 2sLas)

[Natural Predator]

Here is my recommended options for mechs that Might actually be viable in MWO

Criteria
Enough Variants
Useable (IE, would they even be functional from an Engine/shapely)
Hardpoints



CLAN
LIGHTS (Honorable Mention locust 2c)
Fire Falcon-25 tons (Omni)
Prime- 2M, 5E
A-B,M,E
B-2E
C-2M, 3E
D-3M, 2E
F-4B, 4E
H-6E

Tough call between Locust2c and Fire Falcon. You could go either way. Fills the 25 ton gap for Clans who desperately need some decent light mechs.

MEDIUM
Stooping Hawk-55 Tons (Omni) (Honorable Mention Mongrel)
Prime-1B, 4E
A-2E
B-3M,1E
C-4E, JJ
D-7E
E-1B, 2E
F-1M, 4E, JJ
G-3B, 4E

Finding good Clan Mediums was actually kind of difficult. The stooping Hawk had enough variety and enough decent omni pods that could make it viable. The mongrel is the only other clan medium I felt could fit the bill.

Heavy
Black Python-75 tons (honorable mention Woodsmen)
Prime-8E, 2B
2-7E, 3B
3-8E, 2B
4-9E

The Clan Grasshopper. Need I say more. Its ugly as sin but who care if it functions well. Comes down to hitboxes on this.

Assault (Honorable Mention Stone Rhino)
Turkina-95 tons (omni) Jump Jets All Variants
Prime-2E, 2M, 2B
A-2B, 2M
b-8E
C-3B, 4E, 1M
D-2M, 2E
E-6M
H-5E, 2B
X-2M, 6E, ECM

Turkina is an iconic Jade Falcon Assault and its an absolute crime its not in the game


IS
Lights
Owens-35 Tons (Omni)
Prime-4E,2M
A-2M, 2B, 1E
B-1M, 4E
C-3E
D-2M
E-1M, 2E
F-3E, ECM

Owens just seems better than most of the other IS lights that are left with enough variation to make a mech pack.

MEDIUM
Men Shen-55 Tons (omni)
Prime-4E, 1M
A-1B, 4E
B-2B, 4E
C-3E, ecm
D-3E, 2M,
E-6B, 3E

Honestly with the remaining IS mechs this was the only one I felt had enough variation to be Viable. There is certainly cooler IS mechs available (Sha Yu, Starslayer, etc) the question is can you do enough variation on them.

HEAVY (Crusader is iconic and most likely will get voted for)
Black Hawk KU-60 tons (Omni)
Prime-12E
A-2E
B-1B, 5E
C-1B, 5E
D-1M, 5E
E-12E

The IS nova. Because who doesnt want a mech with 12 Is lasers? Who am I kidding there is no way the Crusader gets outvoted anyways. Damn iconic MechWarrior Missile boats.

ASSAULT A(honorable mention HAUPTMANN)
Pillager-100 tons all have JJ
Primary-2B, 5E
1N-2B, 1M, 3E
4z-2b, 3e, ECM
5L-1B, 1M, 4E

This was a hard toss up for me between the Pillager and Hauptmann. Ultimately I went Pillager because its not an Omnimech. Meaning you can change your Engine and make more customization.



What are your thoughts?

[Natural Predator]

Out of all the mechs I just posted the black python might be the most viable at being a decent mech from a meta building stand point.

[Duke Falcon]

Fire moth! Clans cries for it loudly! Fire falcon also nice but Turkina, well, Turkina could be a true trophy. Or Mongrel (Grendel).
Withworth for IS could be nice or Sunder. Both are pretty useless IMO but fancy and could be funny to pilot.
Hussar or Firefly are also seems cool idea or Starslayer. Imagine a lance of Starslayers in FP! My Clan heart beats faster... then hit by lots of LLasers...

But if you not like the graphicians and modellers, everybody demands BLOOD KITE! Ugly, useless, and worse than hell to create it.

[Gas Guzzler]

Porting this from the thread I mistakenly started:

I just realized we are short on Clan ECM chassis in then assault weight class!

We have 7 IS ECM assault chassis and only two Clan (Blood Asp, Marauder IIC)

It seems possible the DWF-C may come to us, so that makes a third but we are still short!

Therefore, I have been surveying Clan ECM assault options:

Kingfisher-F (swap HAG30 for Gauss if we don’t want to add HAGs)(CT ECM)
Kingfisher-X (Imp Hvy MLs to regular Hvy MLs, Art V to Art IV)(RT ECM)

Turkina-X (ECM in the head which is great but has Talons and Artemis V, so would require some creativity)

Night Wolf has ECM but its WAY out of timeline, plasma cannons, only 1 variant, probably not happening

Highlander IIC-2 (ECM in the head, but it has a bunch of AP Gauss rifles in the left arm...)
Highlander IIC-3 (ECM in the head, replace HAG20 with UAC10 or Gauss and less ammo)

Deimos A and B have ECM in the CT and MASC, and there is also a Battlemech Deimos 2 (this mech actually looks like it would be a monster, its out of timeline but most of the variants have in-timeline weapons)

Phoenix Hawk IIC 8 has ECM but also has 6 improved JJs. The only way I can think of to sub for that is TWELVE regular JJs. Possible I suppose.

Gargoyle (Conal) has ECM in the CT. Doesn't really excite me that much but its a chassis in game already.

In summary, current chassis that we can add ECM variants:
Dire Wolf
Highlander IIC
Gargoyle

New chassis that add ECM:
Kingfisher
Turkina
Deimos
Phoenix Hawk IIC


When they ask us for new mech chassis, we must campaign for these!! (Stone Rhino = Clan Marauder II with no structure quirks, remember, it will die)

Additionally:

CU CHULAINN

Add this beast to the game please!!!!! The work is already done!

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 24 February 2021 - 11:06 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Is this so much different than this MAD-IIC Which is an S-tier loadout on Grimmechs?

That has full armor too, so one could easily strip enough for another heat sink. So basically you lose 3 heat sinks, gain ECM, move slightly faster, and don't have billboard side torsos when flanked.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 24 February 2021 - 12:40 PM.

[FupDup]

Trashtier, on 24 February 2021 - 04:42 AM, said:

IS
Lights
Owens-35 Tons (Omni)
Prime-4E,2M
A-2M, 2B, 1E
B-1M, 4E
C-3E
D-2M
E-1M, 2E
F-3E, ECM

Owens just seems better than most of the other IS lights that are left with enough variation to make a mech pack.

What are your thoughts?

The Owens would be very bad without huge quirks. It has very little pod space thanks to not using Endo or FF. It has SHS which cripples your heat dissipation. And it has fairly few hardpoints on most variants. The best variants have merely average hardpoints.



The best case scenario is that the hardwired BAP and TAG are made removable, giving you 10 tons of pod space. That would be workable if the thing didn't get suck with SHS or if SHS got buffed (engine SHS should act like DHS). Note that the TAG is in the right torso, so all variants technically have 1E there (assuming we are allowed to remove it).

Other than godquirks I think the easiest way to save the Owens would be to make a non-canon Owens Mk II that has the proper corrections made (Endo, FF or LFF, DHS, no hardwired stuff, more hardpoints but with the same spirit as the original).


A better choice for IS Omni light is the Raptor, which can boat up to 11 lasers depending on which variants we get.



The TruDubs comment is outdated because external DHS are just as good as engine DHS these days. I don't feel like updating the image though.

[Gas Guzzler]

Trashtier, on 24 February 2021 - 04:45 AM, said:

Out of all the mechs I just posted the black python might be the most viable at being a decent mech from a meta building stand point.

Owens would be the worst light.

Raptor all the way.


As far as IS assaults, I'm feeling the Sunder over either of the options you suggest.

[FupDup]

Gas Guzzler, on 24 February 2021 - 01:51 PM, said:

Owens would be the worst light.

Raptor all the way.


As far as IS assaults, I'm feeling the Sunder over either of the options you suggest.

Hauptmann is better than Sunder...but I'd still take the Sunder over any IS Battlemech solely cuz it's an Omni.

[PocketYoda]

Two mechs i think would fit well are the
IS
Raptor
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Raptor
Sunder.
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Sunder

Clan
Urbanmech IIC
https://www.sarna.ne...i/UrbanMech_IIC
Savage Coyote
https://www.sarna.ne...i/Savage_Coyote

Edited by Samial, 24 February 2021 - 04:19 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

FupDup, on 24 February 2021 - 03:12 PM, said:

Hauptmann is better than Sunder...but I'd still take the Sunder over any IS Battlemech solely cuz it's an Omni.

What can the Hauptmann do that the Fafnir doesn't do better though?

Add jump jets with its dual heavy goose?

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 24 February 2021 - 04:36 PM.

[FupDup]

Gas Guzzler, on 24 February 2021 - 04:32 PM, said:

What can the Hauptmann do that the Fafnir doesn't do better though?

If we're comparing Omnis vs. BMs like this then the only IS Omnis that matter are the Raptor and Black Hawk KU because of their unique laser-boating ability. Maybe Men Shen for being a high-mount 55-ton chicken walker.

The Sunder, Templar, and Hauptmann don't have any real special loadout capabilities compared to existing IS assault Battlemechs, but as I think you'd agree I think we should get IS Omnis anyways because they at least offer new building challenges with the different customization rules.

If we're gonna get an IS assault Omni I think the one that can survive ST loss should be prioritized because people are gonna focus fire the big side torsos of the Templar and Sunder pretty easily.

Edited by FupDup, 24 February 2021 - 04:43 PM.

[Natural Predator]

I honestly think the pillager would be a better choice than Hauptmann, not that I don’t like both, but the ability to customize engines cannot be understated

[Gas Guzzler]

I'm liking this Sunder build

[Gas Guzzler]

FupDup, on 24 February 2021 - 04:40 PM, said:

If we're gonna get an IS assault Omni I think the one that can survive ST loss should be prioritized because people are gonna focus fire the big side torsos of the Templar and Sunder pretty easily.

I haven't had that issue as much in a Banshee.

As long as its reasonably mobile (given that its a 64.8 assault it SHOULD have Cyclops agility), I'll rock it no problem. The hardpoints are higher as well, all being about eye level, whereas the Hauptmann and Templar both have gorilla arms.

To be clear, I'd like all of them. Sunder, Hauptmann, Templar, in order of priority.

And then yeah Men-Shen, Raptor, and Blackhawk KU would all be welcome.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 24 February 2021 - 04:51 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Another Sunder build, this one taking advantage of inevitable So8 quirks.

A ballistic and 4E on the Prime without swapping pods is nice.

[FupDup]

Gas Guzzler, on 24 February 2021 - 04:50 PM, said:

I haven't had that issue as much in a Banshee.

As long as its reasonably mobile (given that its a 64.8 assault it SHOULD have Cyclops agility), I'll rock it no problem. The hardpoints are higher as well, all being about eye level, whereas the Hauptmann and Templar both have gorilla arms.

To be clear, I'd like all of them. Sunder, Hauptmann, Templar, in order of priority.

And then yeah Men-Shen, Raptor, and Blackhawk KU would all be welcome.

Banshee has big shield arms at least. Sunder doesn't have the shoulder pads of the BNC. The big potbelly of the Sunder also means that there's more horizontal surface area to target when shooting you from the side (like various bullet-nose mechs).

Another factor to consider is the fact that your BNC has the element of surprise working in its favor here: Most people don't expect IS assaults to have XL so they aren't going to usually check for one unless the loadout gives it away. With all IS Omnis, there is no element of uncertainty. They know what you're packing under the hood, and their behavior will change accordingly. We can already see this with people generally targeting the side torso of most Clan mechs more often than IS mechs (because like 99% of Clan mechs are gonna be packing CXL).

EDIT: Another point is that the Sunder has some geometry above the cockpit, which means you might take shots when you think you're safe and it gives the reds slightly more time to react when you're about to move up a hill to shoot.



Depending on how Alex interprets this it might suffer from the Uziel syndrome.

I guess let's just agree that any IS Omni would be good to have (except Owens or Strider because those guys suck). Certainly more interesting than the Crusader or whatever random nostalgiamech people are asking for these days.

Edited by FupDup, 24 February 2021 - 05:10 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Do you like missiles? Take a look at this Sunder possible through omni pod switching.

[Gas Guzzler]

FupDup, on 24 February 2021 - 05:05 PM, said:

Banshee has big shield arms at least. Sunder doesn't have the shoulder pads of the BNC. The big potbelly of the Sunder also means that there's more horizontal surface area to target when shooting you from the side (like various bullet-nose mechs).

Another factor to consider is the fact that your BNC has the element of surprise working in its favor here: Most people don't expect IS assaults to have XL so they aren't going to usually check for one unless the loadout gives it away. With all IS Omnis, there is no element of uncertainty. They know what you're packing under the hood, and their behavior will change accordingly. We can already see this with people generally targeting the side torso of most Clan mechs more often than IS mechs (because like 99% of Clan mechs are gonna be packing CXL).

EDIT: Another point is that the Sunder has some geometry above the cockpit, which means you might take shots when you think you're safe and it gives the reds slightly more time to react when you're about to move up a hill to shoot.

I guess let's just agree that any IS Omni would be good to have (except Owens or Strider because those guys suck). Certainly more interesting than the Crusader or whatever random nostalgiamech people are asking for these days.

Yeah the Sunder has a bit above the cockpit but not too bad.

The fact that everybody knows its going to have an XL engine means PGI could give it massive ST durability quirks and good mobility. I would honestly love to have it.

But you are right. The next mech really should be one of these:

Sunder
Hauptmann
Templar
Raptor
MenShen
Blackhawk-KU
Kingfisher.........
Turkina...............

[FupDup]

Gas Guzzler, on 24 February 2021 - 05:12 PM, said:

Yeah the Sunder has a bit above the cockpit but not too bad.

The fact that everybody knows its going to have an XL engine means PGI could give it massive ST durability quirks and good mobility. I would honestly love to have it.

But you are right. The next mech really should be one of these:

Sunder
Hauptmann
Templar
Raptor
MenShen
Blackhawk-KU
Kingfisher.........
Turkina...............

The one point I'll give the Sunder is that the Alternate C comes stock with MRM40 + MRM30, which might mean a possible MRM40 HSL +1 quirk in the set of 8.

As for quirking, my skepticism remains extremely high of our Balancing Overlords'™ willingness to do this. I wish we had Modular Armor and removed the Omnipod restriction from it (Omnis can already change armor distribution after all), then we could just give +20 armor quirks to any component we wanted at any time (for a weight, slot, and speed cost).