801 replies to this topic

[The pessimistic optimist]

Aghtarn, on 16 March 2021 - 06:58 PM, said:

Hey PGI team!

PPC's are dead now

• rework the changes on GAUSS
  
• rework velocity to keep dakka builds in the current state

Conclusion (MASK):
- can be plausible IF we'll see a great rework on heavies and assaults, otherwise - nah.

PPC got buffed really if you are hit shot they are stronger.

Not a big fan of guass changes

MASK thing do suck don't like it

[Big-G]

My feedback:
PPC's are now TOOOO SLOOWWWW...

Set the cooldown increase to something more like 33% of what it has been done now!

[Aghtarn]

SirSmokes, on 16 March 2021 - 07:02 PM, said:

PPC got buffed really if you are hit shot they are stronger.

On a dedicated specialists - SMN, SHC - yes (IF you hittin'), but on assaults like EXE, MCII they simply won't worth a tonnage.

[The pessimistic optimist]

Aghtarn, on 16 March 2021 - 07:15 PM, said:

On a dedicated specialists - SMN, SHC - yes (IF you hittin'), but on assaults like EXE, MCII they simply won't worth a tonnage.

Anyways most like doesn't matter these changes most likely are not staying I have a feel. So will end up being a moot point anyways.

Edited by SirSmokes, 16 March 2021 - 07:20 PM.

[Wyattorc]

Lets see some love to LB5s and UAC5s!

[banana peel]

BinaryFyre, on 16 March 2021 - 06:24 PM, said:

So far I've only played the PPCs post patch. Anyone who says PPCs are dead, do not know how to use PPCs and just aren't good enough to use them.
...
(and no if you've seen me play I don't camp and snipe, I brawl and flank all this nerf does is separate those who really know how to use PPCs from those who don't).

Can i have some footage of 6 sec cd Snub brawling? Could really use some training videos after a long break from the game.

Edited by banana peel, 16 March 2021 - 07:22 PM.

[Nori Silverrage]

PPC changes are in general fine, but you didn't achieve what you said you wanted. All the PPCs got basically the same changes making them all more or less the same. Maybe I'm crazy but I envision the light PPC as your hit and run gun with a short cool down and yet it's cooldown increased to the longest?

Light Gauss getting more damage is cool, but it's DPS went down compared to Gauss because of the doubling of CD. Reduce the cooldown to 4.5 or even 4.25 to give it a decent niche. 4.5s would give it basically the same DPS as new gauss and 4s (13% higher) or 4.25s (6.9% higher) would give a slight but needed edge.
The other Gauss changes seem ok to me. More susceptible to short range builds, but still effective at mid/long range and standoff.

Onto MASC. I like the increased time to use, but the recharge time basically makes it a moot point. Yes I can rush longer, but then it's unusable for so much longer it might as well be a consumable... I'm only slightly exaggerating. A Spirit bear rushes to a fight and then can't use MASC for so long after that the fight will be over...

As far as the decel/turn changes... Why exactly did you feel the need to so grossly nerf a rare piece of equipment? The mobility buffs are a huge part of MASC and lets something like the Spirit Bear work well.. I don't think anyone would say MASC needed a nerf so I don't get this direction change. Please keep in mind that while using MASC you basically can't shoot because of the screen shake... I mention that because the decel/turn nerf doesn't affect while the mech is actually shooting, only it's ability to reposition, which is why you would bother to use slots/tonnage for MASC in the first place.

[Sean Death Angel McMiller]

" We have decided to tune this piece of equipment to be more focused on the sprint speed boost, rather than a global mobility boost, and provide a significant increase to the amount of time that players can leverage the equipment boost"

Um except this isn't what happened. There isn't more speed overall, you just get to hold shift longer, assuming your bar is totally empty, which won't happen as often.
The following are universal changes, affecting all MASC units:

• Gauge Fill Reduced to 0.045 (from 0.09)
  
• Gauge Drain Reduced to 0.0225 (from 0.045) ********* <<<<<<

You still only get to use the MASC 1/3 of the time, (1 second up, 2 seconds down) the overall up time is the exact same. For nascar, the change has done little or nothing, because the recharge rate is what matters. Now that it is nearly useless (or even harmful with the REDUCED turn rate) in brawls, the only thing it is good for is dodging between cover (takes 5~ seconds depending on the map) and helping get in position in the first place. The reduced deceleration and turn rate makes it much worse for finding cover as well, compared to the previous version.

I can't think of, nor have I found a single instance where the new MASK is better. The only thing it does as well is Nascar... ... yay? Everything else has been a hard nerf, not sure the MASK needed that.

It is now mostly a % speed boost, which you can do more simply by increasing your engine size on almost every IS mech, as any that can use the MASK can also have a huge engine. (Flea being the one exception off hand I can think of) The Clan mechs stuck with one... well sucks to suck since they are not usually able to modify their engine, like the ShadowCat, and with a clan XL increasing engine is almost always a better idea/more efficient.

For example my CTF-3L had a MASK IV, with a light 300, upgrading to the Light 325 is almost the same weight (4.5 instead of 4), and overall percent speed increase (9~%). The engine upgrade comes with an additional slot for a heatsink, and will never be an additional liability. The heavier the engine/Mech the lower return, so MASK does get more efficient eventually...

Oh and the fun factor, so not only did you remove almost any functional reason, you also got rid of the things that made the MASK fun. </p>

[tee5]

How I imagine, how the weapons balance changes were born:


fu.. fu.. fu.. I'am late, Patch is tomorrow and I haven't worked on the weapons balance, like I promised my boss.
Ok. I wasn't in the office for the last 7 months, so I never heard of this thing "from now on we listen to the community".
Ok there is a postit on my PC. Watch the Gulag!!! What is this? A TV-Series? Got no time for that, I need to balance the weapons.

Ok I open my Exel-Sheet. Mhhh weapons, weapons, weapons, .... Let me think.
Let's pick one weapon genre from energy. OK here it is PPC's.
I will increase the damage over the board by +2.
Heat increase or decrease, lets take increase. something around 1,5 but that the people think I thought it through I will change by +- 0,5 on some ppcs nobody will notice this.
Cooldown mhh increase 1,5 again *I am a friggin genius* wait on some weapons +-0,5 again so, it does not look so uniform.
Velocity. Ahh ALL +200. wait, wait ER-PPC is cool that one gets 300. Mhh snub-nose is a brawling weapon for short ranges, that one gets +500,
Oh no forgot that I hate Claners, so Claners get no bonus velocity. Someone in the mensa told me Clan OP, please nerf. This must be true.

Ballistics
Lets take AC's all ACs +200 velocity.

Ok: Gauss. +2 more damage but make them veeeeeery slow.

and so on. etc. etc.....
......

MASC: I will destroy that one too, just for fun.

E-Mail sent to boss. Nobody will notice I made this in 35 Minutes, without thinking of the consequences

[kuma8877]

More fun= more players. Less fun = less players.

This patch (and many others) is mostly just less fun, every line you read...

I just don't get why this is so hard to understand. Why should I log in, when I just had a good chunk of my long term playstyle eviscerated in a single patch? I might, once or twice... but probably not.

[Warcrimes4Funtimes]

So, be honest. How many LRMboats cried and paid you to write this patch?
The bias is so obvious that it's disgusting.
The fact you want to coddle the lowest common denominator rather than ask them to get better, you just make the game worse. /golfclap

@pgi
@INNERSPHERENEWS
When are you planning on trying another attempt at balancing so I know when to consider playing this trainwreck again?

Edited by Warcrimes4Funtimes, 16 March 2021 - 08:48 PM.

[The pessimistic optimist]

kuma8877, on 16 March 2021 - 08:25 PM, said:

More fun= more players. Less fun = less players.

This patch (and many others) is mostly just less fun, every line you read...

I just don't get why this is so hard to understand. Why should I log in, when I just had a good chunk of my long term playstyle eviscerated in a single patch? I might, once or twice... but probably not.

Over all not a good patch liked a few changes but overall not a winner

[Z Cassel]

So 10 or so matches in today testing out the changes and there's just no reason to go with ppc heavy IS builds anymore. 4 ppcs of any variety other than heavy and light will in the same tonnage and heat cycle once for every two quad LPL cycles, netting a total of 32 damage that might be dispersed though is very forgiving with the right quirks, and leave a mech far less vulnerable. Yeah you don't have the extreme range of say the ER PPC, but you don't really need that extreme range. In fact the sweet spot for the LPL engage range netted me easily double to triple the damage and kills per match that the er ppc/snub ppc build combo on the same mech did. This is a death knell for PPC versatility and ensures they're used on specific types of builds...you know...almost as if the devs are doubling down on the "Role" concept and trying to force Snipers into the game.

[ColourfulConfetti]

On the bright side, at least Heavy Gauss is looking pretty, if only cause of all the other weapon systems got ****** into the dirt.

Edited by ColourfulConfetti, 16 March 2021 - 08:45 PM.

[The pessimistic optimist]

Z Cassel, on 16 March 2021 - 08:42 PM, said:

So 10 or so matches in today testing out the changes and there's just no reason to go with ppc heavy IS builds anymore. 4 ppcs of any variety other than heavy and light will in the same tonnage and heat cycle once for every two quad LPL cycles, netting a total of 32 damage that might be dispersed though is very forgiving with the right quirks, and leave a mech far less vulnerable. Yeah you don't have the extreme range of say the ER PPC, but you don't really need that extreme range. In fact the sweet spot for the LPL engage range netted me easily double to triple the damage and kills per match that the er ppc/snub ppc build combo on the same mech did. This is a death knell for PPC versatility and ensures they're used on specific types of builds...you know...almost as if the devs are doubling down on the "Role" concept and trying to force Snipers into the game.

Pretty much all my PPC builds I had setup from before did more damage today vs from before the patch and came up with new builds I could not make work before disagree on PPCs

Edited by SirSmokes, 16 March 2021 - 08:50 PM.

[Z Cassel]

SirSmokes, on 16 March 2021 - 08:48 PM, said:

Pretty much all my PPC builds I had setup from before did more damage today vs from before the patch and came up with new builds I could not make work before disagree on PPCs

Seriously, why are you so determined to discredit people's experiences to the glory of your own voice? Play styles differ. Even if you find this caters to your own styles, this shuts down avenues other people enjoyed in the game, and them reporting such doesn't need your constant commentary on how they can't possibly be right. Stop farming post count by replying negatively to everybody and then using that as your justification as to why they can't be trusted.

[Heavy Money]

Well I've played a few matches now with Triple ERPPCs on a Sunspider, and I've done better than I ever have before with it, and by a fair amount. The cooldown increase makes no difference when you're peaking as you're generally not taking a second shot anyway before you hide, and by the time you come out you've cooled down anyway.

So I'm not saying everything is fine and I don't know how it'll impact higher tier play, but for regular use I don't think the sky has fallen (at least in regards to Clan ERPPCs.)

Edited by Heavy Money, 16 March 2021 - 09:01 PM.

[Z Cassel]

Heavy Money, on 16 March 2021 - 09:00 PM, said:

Well I've played a few matches now with Triple ERPPCs on a Sunspider, and I've done better than I ever have before with it, and by a fair amount. The cooldown increase makes no difference when you're peaking as you're generally not taking a second shot anyway before you hide, and by the time you come out you've cooled down anyway.

So I'm not saying everything is fine and I don't know how it'll impact higher tier play, but for regular use I don't think the sky has fallen (at least in regards to Clan ERPPCs.)

I did notice that clan er ppcs were shaving a lot of head armor now

[The pessimistic optimist]

Z Cassel, on 16 March 2021 - 08:59 PM, said:

Seriously, why are you so determined to discredit people's experiences to the glory of your own voice? Play styles differ. Even if you find this caters to your own styles, this shuts down avenues other people enjoyed in the game, and them reporting such doesn't need your constant commentary on how they can't possibly be right. Stop farming post count by replying negatively to everybody and then using that as your justification as to why they can't be trusted.

Not trying to just telling you for some this seems pretty much like a buff. Look this thing most likely going to get changed anyways so I am not sure it really matter anyways

Edited by SirSmokes, 16 March 2021 - 09:06 PM.

[Gozuri]

For most parts, I'd say the ppc changes are a buff. It does invalidate a few playstyles, so just change it up a little. Though from the top of my head, the only 2 ways this is considered a nerf is if you're attempting to to stare down an opponent (which you probably shouldnt anyway), or you're running something that has really good heat dissipation that you can run heat neutral on ppcs (even so, it could still be argued to be a buff sometimes).

Havent tried Gauss, so no comments for now.