619 replies to this topic

[Khobai]

i have to admit i had more fun in tier 5 than im having bouncing between tier 2 and 3 now.

i actually went back to playing on my alt to get some more tier 5 matches.

[Gagis]

I have noticed that many players seem to play with EXTREMELY high mouse sensitivity, which makes aiming much harder than it needs to be.

Try setting it all the way down to 0.1, and see if you start hitting targets.

[cougurt]

Khobai, on 09 June 2021 - 09:09 PM, said:

you fully agree with the intent of making them utterly and completely useless? because thats what they are.

i agree with the intent of making them a more well-rounded weapon rather than filling the awkward role of being singularly useful for nuking everything under 45 tons. as i already said, i don't think the april patch achieved that goal.

Khobai, on 09 June 2021 - 09:09 PM, said:

Cauldron also said they wouldnt nerf any weapons. Then nerfed weapons. I will continue to disbelieve you until I see otherwise.

i could be mistaken, but i only recall them saying that the majority of changes would be centered around buffing underperforming weapons/mechs, not that nerfs were completely off the table. regardless, the cauldron responding to feedback and recognizing that they aren't infallible seems like a silly reason to distrust them.

[Leone]

Alright justcallme A S H, as much as I love, I mean hate, playing devil's advocate, I have noticed an error in your posts. You said,

justcallme A S H, on 09 June 2021 - 08:14 PM, said:

Tier 5 does not play with Tier 1,

Whilst we all know that PGI currently allows veterans to team up with new folks to show them the ropes and drop together with match maker treating the two as two tier threes.

Aha! See, you are wrong, and whilst we all know how terrible it is that folk can play together and have fun, it is currently a thing. So, since I've found one tiny inconsistency, all your logic is void and I win.

Also, P.S, please ask cauldron to nerf Paper. I've found Paper to be highly overrated and overpowered. Besides, no one plays Scissors anymore.

~Sincerely, Rock.

[Khobai]

im not sure making streaks more well-rounded is a good approach though. I think streaks need to be a specialized weapon for hunting lights. Because streaks are never going to be good against heavies or assaults because of how evenly they spread damage. They just arnt effective against heavier mechs. And its difficult to make them effective against heavier mechs without making them overpowered against lighter mechs.

The problem with making streaks more well-rounded is that theres already better well-rounded missile weapons like SRMs which can actually hurt heavies and assaults badly. And are still fairly good against lights when you can actually hit them. Streaks have to find some niche where SRMs arnt straight up better and killing lights was always that niche.

Streaks need fill the niche where theyre better at killing lights than SRMs but not good enough at killing lights that they one shot them. I would also support lights getting armor/structure buffs as well to help against streaks and I think a lot of lights probably need those buffs.

Edited by Khobai, 09 June 2021 - 10:18 PM.

[Nightbird]

I said it before and I'll say it again, just make streaks shoot like ATMs with no min range and 0 duration. Make the spread miss a little against lights and it'll most hit torsos against assaults. Balance achieved.

[justcallme A S H]

Khobai, on 09 June 2021 - 09:09 PM, said:

Cauldron also said they wouldnt nerf any weapons. Then nerfed weapons. I will continue to disbelieve you until I see otherwise.

I don't know why I'm going to ask... But... Can you link to the evidence of this claim?

What the Cauldron actually said was - we would propose to rebalance weapons over a number of passes. We knew full well it would not be perfect from the first patch and to assume it would be is just ignorant.

So you are yet again making a false statement. Maybe if I timeline you might understand/comprehend what you are being told...


Regarding SSRM

April
The big weapons patch. Values were rebalanced and adjusted all over the place, SSRM was rebalanced as noted in the patch notes (I've pointed them out to you already). On paper they looked reasonable, DPS was very similar and no longer would insta-gib lights. With no possibility of PTS it was hard to properly asses such a sweeping change.

May
SSRMs in terms of gameplay were not performing as well in-game as expected. We thought the increased use of AMS was a key reason as AMS had received a large buff/was popular. The Cauldron buffed SSRM hit points in light of the AMS buffs to see how it would then play out and if that was the issue.

Next time weapons get touched (Proposal only)
Following the May patch it was evident SSRM were still under performing in their role and more adjustment was needed. While they were no longer insta-nuking lights, they were still taking 3 huge alphas often more.

The consensus has been to rebalance again with a half-way on the damage from March & April values and tweak some heat or cooldown (I forget which exactly). We think we are pretty close to a balance between not insta-gib and not being useful at all should then be achieved.

Yes it's taken a few iterations to get right. Such is the nature of sweeping rebalances, not everything is going to be perfect.



What I have posted above is the basic thought process undertaken. Claiming anything else is an outright lie. Hopefully that is simple and clear to follow and everyone appreciates the insight.

[justcallme A S H]

Nine-Ball, on 09 June 2021 - 09:15 PM, said:

Yes because newer players are the ones abusing mechanics that force newer players into bad habits like nascaring

If I have to explain to you the logic behind that then I suppose you are not being willfully obtuse.

You're explanation is wrong though? There is no NASCAR in Tier 5/4 where the new players sit.
You can't really call someone obtuse if what you are claiming is going on isn't happening

Leone, on 09 June 2021 - 09:58 PM, said:

~Sincerely, Rock.

lol...

Fair cop there Rock - I was slightly inaccurate there on a very edge-case scenario and left the door completely open and everything I've ever said is now completely invalid

[MechB Kotare]

Light are not op. Fact is some of them are ridiculously large and need rescale. Skill needs to be nerfed...

Rescaling some of the assault would also help, but im fine with the fact that skilled light pilot can totally crash unskilled assault mech pilot.

If lights were made even worse, no one would play them. Please dont touch the lights, do something about assault instead.

Also saying this from medium/heavy main pilot's perspective. I dont play lights at all.

[Khobai]

MechB Kotare, on 09 June 2021 - 10:42 PM, said:

Light are not op. Fact is some of them are ridiculously large and need rescale. Skill needs to be nerfed...

Rescaling some of the assault would also help, but im fine with the fact that skilled light pilot can totally crash unskilled assault mech pilot.

If lights were made even worse, no one would play them. Please dont touch the lights, do something about assault instead.

Also saying this from medium/heavy main pilot's perspective. I dont play lights at all.

people arnt complaining about lights in general

theyre complaining about specific lights

[cougurt]

Khobai, on 09 June 2021 - 10:02 PM, said:

im not sure making streaks more well-rounded is a good approach though. I think streaks need to be a specialized weapon for hunting lights. Because streaks are never going to be good against heavies or assaults because of how evenly they spread damage. They just arnt effective against heavier mechs. And its difficult to make them effective against heavier mechs without making them overpowered against lighter mechs.

The problem with making streaks more well-rounded is that theres already better well-rounded missile weapons like SRMs which can actually hurt heavies and assaults badly. And are still fairly good against lights when you can actually hit them. Streaks have to find some niche where SRMs arnt straight up better and killing lights was always that niche.

Streaks need fill the niche where theyre better at killing lights than SRMs but not good enough at killing lights that they one shot them. I would also support lights getting armor/structure buffs as well to help against streaks and I think a lot of lights probably need those buffs.

i don't see streaks losing their niche as an anti-light weapon barring any (unlikely) mechanical changes, but i think we can reach a more comfortable middle ground where they're still a threat without being an outright death sentence.

i can agree that some lights could use a little more in the way of defensive quirks, but that mostly comes down to them being oversized. assuming the rescale happens, that should help out most of the outliers quite a bit.

[MrMadguy]

Two Piranhas shoot your back, your back isn't one-shot, but it's red, you turn to them to fight back, but one of them starts to run around you, while other stays in front. You're in lose-lose situation, so you're dead within just 5 seconds. Yeah, Lights aren't OP.

[Capt Deadpool]

MrMadguy, on 09 June 2021 - 11:19 PM, said:

Staying with your team and developing good situational awareness before you attempt to go ramboing off by yoir lonesome is OP. Furthermore, it is completely understandable why there should be a weight class that acts as a counter to assaults, who certainly should not be permitted to dominate in all scenarios against anyone, lest players play nothing but assault mechs.

Fixed that for you

[Khobai]

MrMadguy, on 09 June 2021 - 11:19 PM, said:

Two Piranhas shoot your back, your back isn't one-shot, but it's red, you turn to them to fight back, but one of them starts to run around you, while other stays in front. You're in lose-lose situation, so you're dead within just 5 seconds. Yeah, Lights aren't OP.

you should lose a 2 v 1

the problem is when 1 piranha murders you in 5 seconds.

[dario03]

Khobai, on 09 June 2021 - 11:41 PM, said:

you should lose a 2 v 1

the problem is when 1 piranha murders you in 5 seconds.

Which for the most part happens if it gets up close behind your assault and you don't react. However an assault can kill a Piranha in less time from the front at range.

[MechB Kotare]

Khobai, on 09 June 2021 - 11:13 PM, said:

people arnt complaining about lights in general

theyre complaining about specific lights

The title of this thread dictates otherwise. But i admit... havent read the entire discussion.

[The Basilisk]

Light mechs are as close to TT as it gets in MWO.
One time you hit them with a full salvo of dual Gaus and tripple snub and they just stand there beeing slightly yellowish all over their body next time they just evaporate.
Same or even worse it is for spread fire weapons.
Fire a full burst MRM 120 on a flea running straight at you and one time you will have next to zero dmg and next time nothing but the Leggs and cockpit will remain.

Just don't think about it driving them isn't better. Some times you will feel immortal carving through half the enemy team next time your little devil will be evaporated by some PPC sniper while you where running full tilt from across the map.

[Meep Meep]

MrMadguy, on 09 June 2021 - 11:19 PM, said:

Two Piranhas shoot your back, your back isn't one-shot, but it's red, you turn to them to fight back, but one of them starts to run around you, while other stays in front. You're in lose-lose situation, so you're dead within just 5 seconds. Yeah, Lights aren't OP.

But that is near any 2 vs 1 situation if they have a clue. As to not dying to a backstabber get at least one node of seismic so you can tell if anyone is sneaking up on you and try to always be grouped with other mechs. If you are getting caught out alone then a large part of the problem is poor positioning and not mech balance.

[Der Geisterbaer]

Khobai said:

the problem is when 1 piranha murders you in 5 seconds.

Two questions:

Which PIR (variant / actual loadout) kills which mech (weight class, armor values, strucure values, engine type) from which attack angle in 5 seconds?

What are the additional situational constraints that have to be met in order to get that "perfect situation" 5 second kill, that as such potentially qualifies the scenario as a fallacious focus on an edge case?

[Dogstar]

ScrapIron Prime, on 09 June 2021 - 12:54 PM, said:

Exhale, pull trigger.

and you did it with a joystick? I'm impressed!