130 replies to this topic

[John Bronco]

Cauldron is well aware of what that chart looks like, or at least they should be.

Here it is as average MS per class vs the overall global average (credit to Tarogato for these):



And for further reference here is WLR as well (Season 46 is the start of soup):

Edited by John Bronco, 08 September 2021 - 07:17 AM.

[Nightbird]

I just crack up when DATA makes his anti-light statements, as the data analyst in me can't help but reply.

Edited by Nightbird, 08 September 2021 - 07:17 AM.

[pattonesque]

lights definitely got buffs but you've got assaults who can twist to face them better as well as some good additional PPFLD options made viable

[Eatit]

John Bronco, on 08 September 2021 - 07:15 AM, said:

Cauldron is well aware of what that chart looks like, or at least they should be.

Here it is as average MS per class vs the overall global average (credit to Tarogato for these):



And for further reference here is WLR as well (Season 46 is the start of soup):

Thank you so much for this chart John Bronco and Tarogato.

This makes it plain to see that Lights would be on the lowest end of the average match score by chassis list. Though I would really like to see a list that is broken down by the average match score of each chassis.

From what I see here Assault, Heavy and Medium are very close to equal. Light is an extreme outlier. I would expect that the most important work to be done would be on the lights to bring them inline.

Seems strange to be talking about KDK-3 when lights are so out of line.

[w0qj]

Guys, let's stick to OP's topic, Kodiak 3

~Personally I feel that Kodiak 3 (and Kodiak in general) need agility buff, perhaps acceleration/deceleration?
~Just a little armor boost for Kodiak 3 (and Kodiak chassis); but do not over do this; do not turn Kodiak into a tank like the Atlas!

Clan mechs in general are more agile, but less tanky than its IS counterpart.

[Nightbird]

No buffs for the KDK-3 needed. Infact, all assaults need nerfs to bring them inline with lights

[CFC Conky]

Eatit, on 08 September 2021 - 05:16 AM, said:

Hi TMNU,

Thank you for your reply.

I agree that a solution like you have proposed would be simple and easier than adjusting the performance of every chassis. It would also be easy math to determine the multiplier for each chassis based on average match score by chassis.

I would say that we need data to determine this. PGI... Please show us the average match score by chassis.

Hey Eatit,

This is an interesting idea. IMHO, other than light mechs, the other weight classes don’t need any multipliers as they perform well enough already.

I’m not a very good light mech driver and only a bit better in the other weight classes. Perhaps one problem is using match score for rewards? For example, I have fun running around in some light mechs but it would take me forever to accumulate the necessary MS to earn the free Shadowhawk this month, let alone the amount required for the pattern.

When I have to grind MS, I pretty much have to run assaults to do so in a reasonable amount of time.

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

[Nightbird]

A multiplier for MS is a terrible idea, all it would do is push people that under-perform into higher Tiers to be seals and clubbed.

[Ignatius Audene]

kdk is a glasscanon and needs to be. The high mounted not slot or tonnage limited power is only keep in check bye hitbox and mobility. 4 ac10 +2 erppc....

As in many games. Glasscanons are hard to balance.

Edited by Ignatius Audene, 08 September 2021 - 08:26 AM.

[Nightbird]

Ignatius Audene, on 08 September 2021 - 08:25 AM, said:

kdk is a glasscanon and needs to be. The high mounted not slot or tonnage limited power is only keep in check bye hitbox and mobility. 4 ac10 +2 erppc....

As in many games. Glasscanons are hard to balance.

KDK is not a glass cannon, it still has the HP of a 100 tonner. It is a Might Glacier

[evil kerensky]

D A T A, on 07 September 2021 - 11:54 AM, said:

I have tried to play kodiak 3, but from my experience i just get rekt very easily.
I find smaller and more agile mechs not only faster, but also stronger in terms of damage output, which makes this assault and some others basically useless trash.

In my opinion this is due to this chassis having too low agility, like some other assaults and overall too low armor for the size of its hitboxes.

I generally disagree with many assaults having such low accel decel rate, and such low turn rate, and in particular i think that kodiaks could use more armor

Thoughts?

I'd be hesitant to give it both survival and speed. Since the speed is half built in already by it's engine cap, I'd buff it's accep, decel and it's turn/twist rate, and skimp on survivability until you've seen how it goes.

[Eatit]

w0qj, on 08 September 2021 - 07:46 AM, said:

Guys, let's stick to OP's topic, Kodiak 3

~Personally I feel that Kodiak 3 (and Kodiak in general) need agility buff, perhaps acceleration/deceleration?
~Just a little armor boost for Kodiak 3 (and Kodiak chassis); but do not over do this; do not turn Kodiak into a tank like the Atlas!

Clan mechs in general are more agile, but less tanky than its IS counterpart.

We were talking about KDK-3. I had asked for factual data to determine if the KDK-3 really needs a buff. From the chart provided you can see that the KDK-3 and other assaults need a nerf. They are outperforming every other class. That chart represents actual data, not the feelings or assumptions or opinions of people.

It would be impossible to defend a position of Buff Assaults when looking at a chart like that. It would show clear bias at least.

[Eatit]

Nightbird, on 08 September 2021 - 08:08 AM, said:

A multiplier for MS is a terrible idea, all it would do is push people that under-perform into higher Tiers to be seals and clubbed.

Hi Nigthbird,

Thank you for commenting and participating. I look up to you and admire your skill with statistics. Your posts are genuine and come from a position of fact. I hope that you will use any information given to help make things better.

In this case though the same low skilled player could just play in an assault and achieve higher match scores and from the second chart higher w/l ratio. Thus pushing him into higher tiers faster. Being in a light would artificially deflate his skill level because the chassis is gimped. Let's bring it in line and make the chassis have nothing to do with his rise in tier.

I'm not saying give the low skill player a boost. I'm saying make the chassis the same. It will then only be player skill in the field and in the mech lab that drive Tier levels. Right now if a new player only played in Assaults he would be go up in tier dramatically faster than if he played in a light. Leading to the clubbing starting sooner in his career.

So exactly the opposite is true. Low skilled players are being artificially inflated in assault mechs.

I would rather see the Cauldron work on the lowest performing mechs first and I doubt that the KDK-3 falls into that category. I know you didn't suggest that I'm just justifying my comment in this thread.

[Nightbird]

Eatit, on 08 September 2021 - 09:27 AM, said:

Hi Nigthbird,

Thank you for commenting and participating. I look up to you and admire your skill with statistics. Your posts are genuine and come from a position of fact. I hope that you will use any information given to help make things better.

In this case though the same low skilled player could just play in an assault and achieve higher match scores and from the second chart higher w/l ratio. Thus pushing him into higher tiers faster. Being in a light would artificially deflate his skill level because the chassis is gimped. Let's bring it in line and make the chassis have nothing to do with his rise in tier.

I'm not saying give the low skill player a boost. I'm saying make the chassis the same. It will then only be player skill in the field and in the mech lab that drive Tier levels. Right now if a new player only played in Assaults he would be go up in tier dramatically faster than if he played in a light. Leading to the clubbing starting sooner in his career.

So exactly the opposite is true. Low skilled players are being artificially inflated in assault mechs.

I would rather see the Cauldron work on the lowest performing mechs first and I doubt that the KDK-3 falls into that category. I know you didn't suggest that I'm just justifying my comment in this thread.

I see it this way... the mechs you choose affects your expected performance in matches. Without something like chassis specific PSR, a pilot that uses assaults will contribute more in a match than the same pilot in a light. Rating the pilot's skill in a vacuum without considering the mech might be interesting academically (like the adjustments in the jarl's list) but it's not something you want for match making.

So, yes, use assaults to climb tiers, use lights to lower tiers. (For those around the middle right now) To do otherwise is to allow assault pilots to farm their peers in less powerful mechs.

Edited by Nightbird, 08 September 2021 - 09:36 AM.

[RoadToDohWhere]

John Bronco, on 08 September 2021 - 07:15 AM, said:

Cauldron is well aware of what that chart looks like, or at least they should be.

Here it is as average MS per class vs the overall global average (credit to Tarogato for these):



And for further reference here is WLR as well (Season 46 is the start of soup):

Looks like it was more balanced between classes before season 46.
Why is that?
Hmm

[Remover of Obstacles]

Looks like getting rid of Soup Queue will greatly help lights and overall game balance and quality.

John Bronco, on 08 September 2021 - 07:15 AM, said:

Cauldron is well aware of what that chart looks like, or at least they should be.

Here it is as average MS per class vs the overall global average (credit to Tarogato for these):



And for further reference here is WLR as well (Season 46 is the start of soup):

[Eatit]

Nightbird, on 08 September 2021 - 09:33 AM, said:

I see it this way... the mechs you choose affects your expected performance in matches. Without something like chassis specific PSR, a pilot that uses assaults will contribute more in a match than the same pilot in a light. Rating the pilot's skill in a vacuum without considering the mech might be interesting academically (like the adjustments in the jarl's list) but it's not something you want for match making.

So, yes, use assaults to climb tiers, use lights to lower tiers. (For those around the middle right now) To do otherwise is to allow assault pilots to farm their peers in less powerful mechs.

Good point, I was only thinking in terms of after match rewards. Lights will still be fodder in the match and that's not very enjoyable for anyone.

I feel like it's a lost cause. Hopefully the Cauldron has broader vision than I do.

[wexo ita]

I agree, kodiak needs more armor and agility.!

Edited by wexo ita, 08 September 2021 - 12:15 PM.

[X T R E M E]

I agree, all assaults need more agility !!!

Today it is not possible to compete against the light ones.

[pattonesque]

X T R E M E, on 08 September 2021 - 12:17 PM, said:

I agree, all assaults need more agility !!!

Today it is not possible to compete against the light ones.

they got more agility just recently?