130 replies to this topic

[CFC Conky]

1453 R, on 09 September 2021 - 09:46 AM, said:

Reasonably sure Underscore there was being sarcastic, CFC. But yes. Assault 'Mechs are usually their own worst enemy, and few of the people carping about "OP LYTES" are willing to look in the mirror and admit their own suck.

Indeed, my post was not directed at anyone in particular.

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

[Nightbird]

Speaking of a KDK-3, can we get an (S) variant pretty please?

[Rkshz]

as I wrote above, the KDKs has a big problem - a bulging belly and wide arms and and too wide hitboxes
I understand, probably the artists wanted to make the KDKs "beautiful" or "lore" - but this is a game, and game designers were obliged to take into account the peculiarities of the gameplay - and from the point of view of gameplay, the mech needed to dodge and smudge damage

as you can see in the screenshot, this bulging belly does not allow damage to be dodge and smudge damage even when turned 180 degrees (the only way is to raise your hands high during the reversal)



the problem of widely spaced arms is that, firstly, the "weapon" is located at an angle, and secondly, because when you shoot, you catch obstacles and your team (and your team always wants to hug)



therefore, I think that the KDK needs to be rescaled

Edited by Rkshz, 10 September 2021 - 12:29 AM.

[MechWarrior414712]

justcallme A S H, on 07 September 2021 - 05:51 PM, said:

D A T A is also at the top end of the food chain so my reply was more aimed at him and the discussion at hand. Part of this discussion has actually been going on the Cauldron discord and more agree that it is fine, that agree it has issues.

I too have used the KDK3 and will probably give it another run soon - I've had no issue using it either in the past however.

Remembering you don't balance from the bottom up. If you give the KDK3 much more than what it has now it'll again be on the verge of the absolute monster it once was. I don't believe the game needs that.

It is no different to the DWF or other 100T mechs. They can either dominate if played well or get destroyed if they do not. At least the KDK can be moving 60km/h+ where the DWF cannot so once in trouble it rarely can get out of it.

Yes the DWF can bring more guns it is as the cost of full exposure where the KDK3 simply does not need to risk that at all.

There is a lot to consider.

KDK gets the extra speed practically free because Endosteel-> and most of the builds dont require the hardlocked 15dhs Dire has.
I think OP is half right and wrong at the same time. I think everything else is getting the shine right now, should be looking at those mechs instead of KDK.

[justcallme A S H]

Rkshz, on 10 September 2021 - 12:22 AM, said:

I think that the KDK needs to be rescaled

All mechs need to be re-scaled, that's been discussed from the start. Plenty of mechs have hitboxes that would be well served from a rescale.

I also took some more photos that are side-on. Showing that the 'belly' is actually pretty well shielded when turned 180 degrees even when there is nothing in the torso. The real issue is the side torsos can be hit from 360 degrees.

Also to note the 'belly' area you circled actually makes up 3 hitboxes. Side torsos and centre torso.

[Rkshz]

justcallme A S H, on 10 September 2021 - 01:20 AM, said:

All mechs need to be re-scaled, that's been discussed from the start. Plenty of mechs have hitboxes that would be well served from a rescale.

I also took some more photos that are side-on. Showing that the 'belly' is actually pretty well shielded when turned 180 degrees even when there is nothing in the torso. The real issue is the side torsos can be hit from 360 degrees.

Also to note the 'belly' area you circled actually makes up 3 hitboxes. Side torsos and centre torso.

you cannot deny the fact that the KDKs has a bulging belly - this is a stupid vulnerability that game designers made
1. arm armor is always cut off if you play billistics - hands don't live long
2. you show the perspective clearly horizontally, but in the game it does not work that way, enemy will shoot as it is convenient for the enemy

P.S. I know that you like to argue just for conversation, but it doesn't work with me

Edited by Rkshz, 10 September 2021 - 01:36 AM.

[justcallme A S H]

Not argue - point out the flaws in many arguments that get put forward here as they are often incorrect. You didn't even draw even lines on the EXE vs KDK for a start.

If the opposing mech hardpoints are at the same height or lower than the KDK arms then the "belly", which is a small area mind you, it is absolutely not going to be hit at 180 degrees with any level of consistency. Even at 90 degrees you're going to have to be very very good at aiming and to be honest, no one is going to aim there because its stupid when the fat torso's are there to be taken far easier to hit.

Only at elevation, at less than 90 degrees, is it going to be somewhat of a problem and as I said - most players are not going to aim there anyway.

[w0qj]

There's a saying, and may I paraphrase someone else from this forum:
"[Kodiak] is as tall as an Atlas--and as wide as a King Crab".

Deadly combo for the Kodiak, right?

Kodiak need more agility to let it scurry and hide back in the bushes under cover.
And perhaps a little more armor to make it a little more survivable.

- - - - - - - - - -
Just saw and killed a Kodiak-3 a few days ago, and it was sad, even from someone (me) who has trouble aiming at specific torso parts. I did 2x alpha strikes to destroy its huge/wide Right torso. Cool Shot. Then I did 2x alpha strikes to destroy its huge/wide left torso. Then I took my time (not to overheat my mech to death) to destroy its CT. Solo Kill. Again, from someone (me) who has trouble aiming at specific torso parts. The Kodiak Right & Left Torso is so huge/wide that you simply cannot miss.

Edited by w0qj, 10 September 2021 - 05:26 AM.

[1453 R]

The KDK-3 also only needs to expose a small chunk of its upper torso to hammer enemies. As opposed to the Atlas or Krab, which need to expose the whole-*** 'Mech. Giving Kodiaks medium 'Mech level agility is just a terrible idea all around.

[Verilligo]

___, on 09 September 2021 - 10:21 AM, said:

I was not being sarcastic. the economy is an important part of this game and PGI has said so before

What you are complaining about has nothing to do with the economy as reference by PGI. The economy in that instance is a balance of the cost of purchasing mechs and equipment with the amount of money players can earn during play. "My 16 million C-bill mech was killed by a 2 million C-bill mech" is a matter of cost-benefit, which I believe was simply copied directly from the source material or otherwise interpolated. This tends to get ignored partly because, other than engines, most equipment has a very small cost associated with it comparative with a player's ability to generate income.

[Nightbird]

___, on 10 September 2021 - 10:44 AM, said:

Then lets just throw all the lore out of the window while were at it.

If I buy a 16 million mech, and then spend many more millions equipping it with expensive equipment only to be easily killed by a penny pinching light player using bargain bin weapons like small lasers, something is WAY OFF there.

Yes yes, let's just make it so that more expensive mechs cannot be killed by less expensive mechs, then the new meta is who can build the most expensive mech lol

[1453 R]

I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt there, Underscore...but seriously? Seriously? You think cost of the 'Mech should be a determining factor in combat?

Just...yikes. Yikes. Better watch out for those nearly thirty million C-bill heavy and assault Clanner OmniMechs, mang. Those things would be invincible engines of cataclysmic destruction. Why, just one such 'Mech could take out an entire lance of Spheroid potmetal trashmechs. Break our your space wallets, folks - time to turn C-bills into DPS.

Yeesh.

[pattonesque]

he can't keep getting away with it!

[1453 R]

Side note: does anyone actually know of any even marginally respectable light 'Mech build you can assemble for two million C-bills? Like, for real. The 'mechs themselves tend to run between two and five, and then it's another two to fourish for a new engine and internal upgrades. My tally was something like six to nine million C-bills for "Empty 'Mech bay" to "Tournament ready Light 'Mech", depending on the 'Mech in question and how much engine you get to stuff into it. Flipping Ferro/Endo/DHS alone is usually over two million C-bills...

[FupDup]

Nightbird, on 10 September 2021 - 10:47 AM, said:

Yes yes, let's just make it so that more expensive mechs cannot be killed by less expensive mechs, then the new meta is who can build the most expensive mech lol

It would be really funny to see that backfire when a super expensive light or mediums utterly obliterates a low-cost heavy or assault.

And really, the whole "C-Bills should rule all" thing would be completely impossible to enforce unless the game literally did a comparison between the cost of you and your target and applied instant buffs or nerfs on the spot to ensure that the more expensive unit always won. And even then it's still not a guarantee. And what if an expensive machine is damaged and engages a fresh cheap machine? Do they get a Ragnarok shield to protect them?

It's just an extremely stupid idea.

Edited by FupDup, 10 September 2021 - 12:46 PM.

[CptJudas]

This underscore guy is making a lot of sense to me. I spent a lot more money on my XL engine and I should get all the value out of it. Lights shouldn't be able to compete against me when my engine costs more than their whole mech.

[dario03]

___, on 10 September 2021 - 10:44 AM, said:

Then lets just throw all the lore out of the window while were at it.

If I buy a 16 million mech, and then spend many more millions equipping it with expensive equipment only to be easily killed by a penny pinching light player using bargain bin weapons like small lasers, something is WAY OFF there.

Everything would need massive rebalances if cbill cost was a main point of balance. The cost to benefit of equipment and weapons doesn't really scale, nor does the cost to weight and slots. Things like armor and ammo are very cheap but typically needed. LFE/XL engines are over double the cost of standard engines, lams is over double ams plus ammo, clbx20 is worth 120 cmachine guns, 60 ermicro lasers, 60 csrm2. A larger light with no armor, a xl engine, a couple of erppc or big lasers will have a value similar to an actual big standard engine brawl assault with armor, ac20, and srms.

[Moldur]

The KDK-3 already got its nerf when they lowered the UAC-10 ghost heat cap solely because of it. Everything on top of it has been extra.

It actually made me chuckle to look at the difference in agility and turn stats between the Atlas and Kodiaks, then again looking at the KDK-3 specifically, as it has been beaten through the ground, strung up on a bridge as a warning to others.

[GoodTry]

dario03, on 10 September 2021 - 01:52 PM, said:

Everything would need massive rebalances if cbill cost was a main point of balance. The cost to benefit of equipment and weapons doesn't really scale, nor does the cost to weight and slots. Things like armor and ammo are very cheap but typically needed. LFE/XL engines are over double the cost of standard engines, lams is over double ams plus ammo, clbx20 is worth 120 cmachine guns, 60 ermicro lasers, 60 csrm2. A larger light with no armor, a xl engine, a couple of erppc or big lasers will have a value similar to an actual big standard engine brawl assault with armor, ac20, and srms.

I mean, TBF, if the more expensive stuff isn't better, why is it more expensive?

[MyriadDigits]

GoodTry, on 10 September 2021 - 04:30 PM, said:

I mean, TBF, if the more expensive stuff isn't better, why is it more expensive?

Because lore said so.