134 replies to this topic

[Mark Yore]

Since the quirk changes I've noticed a greater proportion of lights in matches, leading to more wolf packs.

Lights always had a bit of fragility about them. Now that they have enough armour to take a couple of direct hits they seem to be less afraid of the other mechs, particularly the assaults. So more people bring lights, which means the chances of having four or more on a side goes up.

Do you think the armour changes have gone too far?

[John Bronco]

We'll have to wait and see. Looking at the data up to August, lights were still the lowest performing and least winning class in the game.

Certainly the recent changes have been to bump their performance up and make them more attractive to play, which based on your observations may indeed be happening.

As always, just keep shooting them.

[pattonesque]

Lights consistently have been the lowest-performing mechs out of all the weight classes in terms of average match score and win rate. In general, the lights that recently got armor buffs were ones you effectively did not see beforehand. Lights still die very quickly with big alphas flying around.

[1453 R]

No. They're still lights.

Put it this way: if you got attacked by four assault 'Mechs all at the same time, would you consider it weird that you got ruined? No? Would that be a case of "Oh, I was outnumbered pretty severely, it makes sense that I lost"?

Then why should that be any different if you get ganged up on by an entire lance of light 'Mechs? Why should being drastically outnumbered and taking on an entire lance by yourself not count just because the 'Mechs doing the outnumbering are smaller than others?

[Curccu]

chances are there are still more assaults in the game than light mechs, wolf pack with your assault buddies.

[pattonesque]

1453 R, on 22 September 2021 - 06:43 AM, said:

No. They're still lights.

Put it this way: if you got attacked by four assault 'Mechs all at the same time, would you consider it weird that you got ruined? No? Would that be a case of "Oh, I was outnumbered pretty severely, it makes sense that I lost"?

Then why should that be any different if you get ganged up on by an entire lance of light 'Mechs? Why should being drastically outnumbered and taking on an entire lance by yourself not count just because the 'Mechs doing the outnumbering are smaller than others?

And at least with lights, if you get jumped by a lance and keep your head about you, you have a far better chance of killing or crippling one or two than if the same thing happens with a lance of assaults

[Rkshz]

people who are improving quirks do not understand one important thing = if you give for lights +10 armor, then you need to give for assults +40 armor

[caravann]

Assault is a glass cannon. It is meant for one thing, dealing lots of damage. They're 100ton.
Mechs are based on tanks. 100ton tank perform worse than a heavy tank.
100ton can barely move at all. It has armor and less carry weight since it's a brick on wheels.
There's maybe only 1 or 2 examples of 100ton tank models and them never got into production.
In MWO assaults are not made to take damage. They're not that tanky when the opposite is a glass cannon.
Lights are competitors of 11 other mechs no matter what size or weight. It doesn't ,matter if it makes sense to you.
In WW2 the tanks the allies shipped to the front were awful but light tanks who could only defeat a German tank with the cost of 3 light tanks with 1 flanking behind and shoot at the tank at point blank range in the back. The reasoning behind it was that they had to ship the tanks on cargo ships.

By this logic , light mechs should come with 4 extra Mechs for every encounter with up to 48 light mechs vs 12 assault.

Let's see how that works out on a small map.

[1453 R]

No, they do not. Most assault 'Mechs are fine. Assault 'Mechs feel fragile because people pilot them poorly and hang them out to dry in front of the entire enemy team, or because they feel like their assault 'Mech should be an invincible titan of armor-clad death that cannot be felled by mortal means.

Even the most heavily armored light 'Mechs disappear like candlewax under focused Fatbro fire. Shoot. The. Smegging. Fish. Its eight shiny new points of armor means it will tolerate an extra two small laser shots' worth of damage before popping. The up-armoring is to help light 'Mechs against incidental, poorly-aimed damage - hit the thing solidly and something will break off of it.

[MrMadguy]

2nd pass of quirks for Lights, that has already been OP? Dunno. First it seemed like this game started to come alive. And now two maps are broken and this strange "balance", where guys want Lights to become "popular" just for the sake of some sort of "balance" between wight classes? May be we should balance CB and MC prices then?

Meanwhile, when I bring something like Atlas to battlefield, I really feel, that I'm just a waste of tonnage, because of how terrible it's firepower is.

1453 R, on 22 September 2021 - 07:17 AM, said:

No, they do not. Most assault 'Mechs are fine. Assault 'Mechs feel fragile because people pilot them poorly and hang them out to dry in front of the entire enemy team, or because they feel like their assault 'Mech should be an invincible titan of armor-clad death that cannot be felled by mortal means.

Even the most heavily armored light 'Mechs disappear like candlewax under focused Fatbro fire. Shoot. The. Smegging. Fish. Its eight shiny new points of armor means it will tolerate an extra two small laser shots' worth of damage before popping. The up-armoring is to help light 'Mechs against incidental, poorly-aimed damage - hit the thing solidly and something will break off of it.

That's, what is called "entry skill threshold". This is core thing, some devs don't understand. If two 'Mechs have equal performance, but one of them has lower skill threshold - then it's actually more powerful, than other one.

Edited by MrMadguy, 22 September 2021 - 07:55 AM.

[Saved By The Bell]

If you hate lights, try to play them!

[pattonesque]

MrMadguy, on 22 September 2021 - 07:41 AM, said:

Meanwhile, when I bring something like Atlas to battlefield, I really feel, that I'm just a waste of tonnage, because of how terrible it's firepower is.

What are you running on an Atlas when you bring it?

[GoodTry]

If you think lights have too much armor, trying playing a Locust or a Piranha and watch your leg get deleted by a 40-pt alpha from 800m away.

[kuma8877]

If they are so OP, play them and show us how ezpz it is. Should be a breeze to make the case if they are as super-duper as claimed.

More likely, some of you try it, get insta-deleted twice in a row, and go back to the assaults to continue complaining about the least played weight class being OP.

[w0qj]

Hey Mark Yore, welcome to our MWO forums!

1. What mech are you generally using (Assault? Heavy?) that you are having trouble vs Lights?

2. Several pointers:
~Learn to walk backwards to back-against-the-wall, so lights cannot shoot your back. Better yet, back into a corner!
~LBX autocanons are great at Light-hunting, and helps your fight if you survive into the 2nd half of the fight.
~If you must, get both Seismic Sensors nodes in the Sensor Tree, to familiarise yourself with how Lights operate.

3. Someone else had already pointed out this B33F video of his Assault (CRG-1A5 with AC20 + 3x MRM10) fighting vs two Light mechs.

Navid A1, on 20 September 2021 - 10:53 AM, said:

Here is a guide for dealing with PIRs:

You don't even need your HUD or reticle.... as long as mouse button 1 and 2 is working:

https://clips.twitch...sXS3GyVHyGS4T0p

4. There's yet another running thread here:
But it's already degenerated into that regular toxic arguments between the Light-players and Assault/Heavy-players, both defending their territory, afraid of MWO/Cauldron nerfs to their side:

https://mwomercs.com...i-piranha-guide

5. It might be your computer too, make sure you have fast 'ping'.

6. If your computer is lagging during intensive fights (especially ballistic dakka), set your MWO game client Settings to:
In [Video]:
1280x720 DPI
[Full_Window]

In [Video]>>[Advanced]:
[Particles]=Low
[Environment]=Low

7) You can also try adjusting your User.cfg via Mr. Vaad's instructions (works wonders for me!):

http://mwomercs.com/...ide-and-usercfg

http://mwomercs.com/...u-and-particles

http://mwomercs.com/...5-mwo-dimmdrive

http://www.reddit.co...ide_and_usercfg

Good luck!

Edited by w0qj, 22 September 2021 - 09:26 AM.

[ScrapIron Prime]

caravann, on 22 September 2021 - 07:14 AM, said:

By this logic , light mechs should come with 4 extra Mechs for every encounter with up to 48 light mechs vs 12 assault.

Let's see how that works out on a small map.

And in other news, Mercer Ravannion is still wrong.

[Telemachus -Salt Wife Salt Life-]

LOL this thread is funny

[MechNexus]

Just shoot them. Seriously. Losing one leg is absoloutely crippling for any mech relying on mobility - which is basically every light mech in the game, even the sniper bois like the panther, cougar, and adder. Screws over a few mediums, too. This is why this patch and last patch you've seen many get a bit extra armour in this department.

I've also noticed that the armour quirks going to the piranha and flea this patch are for the weaker variants on offer - the stronger ones get no change.

[Valdarion Silarius]

GoodTry, on 22 September 2021 - 08:34 AM, said:

If you think lights have too much armor, trying playing a Locust or a Piranha and watch your leg get deleted by a 40-pt alpha from 800m away.

Which is incredibly hard to do. I think people tend to forget that lights have speed on their side.

[1453 R]

Again: speed is as much a defense against them shooting you as it is the other way around. When a Doomfish is zooming by at 140kph and doing mad jukes to avoid getting blasted, its own hit chances are basically zero. Unless you're playing a T0 Ultracomp light pilot who will eat your lunch no matter what you do, the light 'Mech is GOING to slow down or flatten out its lines of movement when it's actually attacking you. Face-staring machine gun spammers like the Meth Lynx or Doomfish have to take a relatively predictable track to apply their DPS. Wait for them to do that, then hit them when they're not utilizing their mobility to be difficult targets.

I've been spending quite a few matches in an HMG Meth Lynx as of late, and lemme tell you - if you ignore me or I catch you by surprise because you ignored your Infowar ****, I will end your life in seconds. But even just maneuvering to keep me away from your juicy robit heiny, trying to present guns to me, makes my life as a Meth Lynx vastly more difficult, because now I have to try and focus that spray-n-pray machine gun DPS on a single component long enough to drill through vastly thicker frontal armor, and I have to do it while maintaining enough unpredictable movement to foul your aim and stop you from just punching me out like a boxing game tutorial weenie.

Half the time, simply showing me that you're gonna fight back and make me work for it is enough to get me to disengage and try to find a better fight, because as a light 'Mech I cannot afford to stick out and insist on an engagement where I don't have a marked advantage. If I can't cripple you with my opening attack, odds are good it won't matter if I can press the fight and win anyways - I'll be useless for any fight after that if you bother to fight back at all, and simply staying alive long enough means your reinforcements will be along to do their best to make me resemble bagel spread instead of a BattleMech.

And that's in a Mist Lynx, arguably the best/strongest MG brawler light 'Mech right now since it has the jumpy mobility and the heavily expanded armor quirks to allow it to dogfight in close range better than the Fish or the Cheetah.

Shoot The Damn Fish™. Even if you miss, even if you suck at hitting Fish, you're making yourself a much more difficult target to kill and you're buying time for someone who may be better at Shooting Fish than you are to come along and do just that.