629 replies to this topic

[Blood Rose]

All mechs must carry a minimal of 10 heatsinks. These come free but do not always fit into smaller engines.

[Curccu]

caravann, on 30 January 2022 - 11:12 AM, said:

How hard is it to read.

No offense much but usually when you post stuff... extremely hard to read and understand.

[pbiggz]

caravann, on 30 January 2022 - 11:12 AM, said:

If you just took a moment to read what I just said = light mechs can have less heatsinks than needed and still use machineguns.

What I proposed was a buff. Imagine if you could run with zero extra heatsinks but you can not use lasers. You can still use machineguns. Because machineguns deals no heat.

How hard is it to read.

I misunderstood. Apologies.

I recall there being technical issues associated with small engines and heatsinks but I can't say for sure what they were.

[Blood Rose]

Ran into a Fire Javelin with my sextuplet AC5 Annihilator today.
I can now confirm that leg hugging Lights are indeed annoying, but also incredibly vulnerable to arm mounted weapons. Also 6 AC5 shells hitting a light on the same point do things. I actually felt bad for him, if I had been one of the lesser Assault pilots he would have probably torn me to shreds whilst I span around helplessly with my arms locked at my sides, sobbing into my mike for someone to come save me from the little bad.
Reminder, oh yee of assault grade buttblastedness, back to the wall, arms unlocked. Or just counterturn, its really effective.

[LordNothing]

Blood Rose, on 02 February 2022 - 04:54 PM, said:

Ran into a Fire Javelin with my sextuplet AC5 Annihilator today.
I can now confirm that leg hugging Lights are indeed annoying, but also incredibly vulnerable to arm mounted weapons. Also 6 AC5 shells hitting a light on the same point do things. I actually felt bad for him, if I had been one of the lesser Assault pilots he would have probably torn me to shreds whilst I span around helplessly with my arms locked at my sides, sobbing into my mike for someone to come save me from the little bad.
Reminder, oh yee of assault grade buttblastedness, back to the wall, arms unlocked. Or just counterturn, its really effective.

sounds like the light didn't check its target's loadout before engaging.

[ScrapIron Prime]

LordNothing, on 02 February 2022 - 07:13 PM, said:

sounds like the light didn't check its target's loadout before engaging.

And as a wise man once told me, siempre presione "R".

[Weeny Machine]

Blood Rose, on 02 February 2022 - 04:54 PM, said:

Ran into a Fire Javelin with my sextuplet AC5 Annihilator today.
I can now confirm that leg hugging Lights are indeed annoying, but also incredibly vulnerable to arm mounted weapons. Also 6 AC5 shells hitting a light on the same point do things. I actually felt bad for him, if I had been one of the lesser Assault pilots he would have probably torn me to shreds whilst I span around helplessly with my arms locked at my sides, sobbing into my mike for someone to come save me from the little bad.
Reminder, oh yee of assault grade buttblastedness, back to the wall, arms unlocked. Or just counterturn, its really effective.

but...but...lights op plz nerf!11!!!

[Curccu]

ScrapIron Prime, on 02 February 2022 - 07:55 PM, said:

And as a wise man once told me, siempre presione "R".

Well usually if you go against anni and you can see it's designation being 1A, 2A or 1X you ca be pretty damn sure it has some super nasty PPFLD weapons other ones might not be PPFLD but still most likely are and you don't want to get shot by it even once. Usually pretty bad idea to go knife fight annihilator in light mech unless you can be damn sure you can stay out of its firing line.

[Dryderian]

They are not broken in my opinion, they are hard to play and i would even say it got harder with the power creep, though some light mechs got their share too.

I have seen and still see light mechs taking down assaults and heavies alone, mainly when those sort of mechs were alone, too.

When you are an assault or a heavy walking alone, that was and is always a bad idea. I tend to call out any cored mechs I encounter for the lights in the team, so they can take them down with one or a few shots.

Edited by Dryderian, 04 February 2022 - 07:18 PM.

[Duke Falcon]

I killed an Archer with my Arctic cheetah! Lights are OP! Nerf them!

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Waaaaaait...

The hell are you talking about? Lights are OP?! How?! When?! Who?! And huh?!

Just learn not lag behind alone and lights would be suddenly less OP.
But, just wonder, really: If lights are so freaking absolutely irrevocably OP, just askin', why not play lights then? Because they are NOT OP?! What?! How?! Who?!

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Need some coffee to process this dump, sorry...

[Meep Meep]

Duke Falcon, on 05 February 2022 - 12:02 PM, said:

But, just wonder, really: If lights are so freaking absolutely irrevocably OP, just askin', why not play lights then?

Most don't. The most common mechs in quick play from my observations are mediums and heavies with some assaults and a light or two with the odd light lance premade. Most also die without much damage or assists when they run up to a mech head on and get obliterated.

[Blood Rose]

Duke Falcon, on 05 February 2022 - 12:02 PM, said:

But, just wonder, really: If lights are so freaking absolutely irrevocably OP, just askin', why not play lights then?

For the same reason none of the whiners do: They actually know that Lights are awful to play and the hardest class to do well anything aside form capture points in, so they drive Assaults and upper end Heavies that are, by default, the strongest mech classes in the game. Nothing in the game can match the firepower or tanking potential of an Assault.
The problem they have is that pre-Light survivability buff your average Light mech straight up disintegrated if it took any fire from one of these platforms - a meta loadout from a Heavy or Assault would not even need a good hit to end the Lights participation in the match.
Now Lights can actually be a threat and necessitate the mounting of dedicated anti Light weaponry (akin to the secondary battery on a Battleship), and the use of arm weapons that are not locked to the side, and/or a good aim to bring a square hit on an oncoming Light mech - the 6AC5 alpha on my Annihilator is hardly a good alpha for an Assault mechs main battery but a single good hit can remove the leg from all but the tougher Lights, and two good hits on any torso location will remove it, unless im in the rear then, well, "poof". And in addition to that I have 4 ML's, just in case.
The alpha from a well built FLD peek-a-boom mech will pretty much delete any Light aside from maybe an Urbanmech, which will be crippled. A good secondary battery will drive all but the most determined Light off. A skilled counterturn or slamming ones back to a wall, in both cases calling for help if needed, will deny most Lights the opportunity they need to engage and force them onto your guns.
And if all else fails, bring a Medium kitted out for anti-light duties and chase down the pesky fleas. Its a good support/strike loadout too.

[MrMadguy]

My suggestion - sized hardpoints. No. Not ones from MW4. I mean, volumetric sizing shouldn't work, if 'Mech has too many hardpoints. Each hardpoint should have some minimal size, so 'Mech with N hardpoints shouldn't be smaller, than some threshold, just because it needs to fit all that hardpoints somewhere.

[pbiggz]

MrMadguy, on 13 February 2022 - 05:52 AM, said:

My suggestion - sized hardpoints. No. Not ones from MW4. I mean, volumetric sizing shouldn't work, if 'Mech has too many hardpoints. Each hardpoint should have some minimal size, so 'Mech with N hardpoints shouldn't be smaller, than some threshold, just because it needs to fit all that hardpoints somewhere.

Sized hardpoints should have been in from the start, but i can just tell the way you mean it is in order to nerf lights.

[JudauAshta]

Blood Rose, on 02 February 2022 - 04:54 PM, said:

Ran into a Fire Javelin with my sextuplet AC5 Annihilator today.
I can now confirm that leg hugging Lights are indeed annoying, but also incredibly vulnerable to arm mounted weapons. Also 6 AC5 shells hitting a light on the same point do things. I actually felt bad for him, if I had been one of the lesser Assault pilots he would have probably torn me to shreds whilst I span around helplessly with my arms locked at my sides, sobbing into my mike for someone to come save me from the little bad.
Reminder, oh yee of assault grade buttblastedness, back to the wall, arms unlocked. Or just counterturn, its really effective.

yeh lights are op until they take a lazer vomit to the face and die lmao

imo unlocked missile do worst against lights. where as guided one destroy them, thats why stream crow is worst enemy of every light
my blood asp e with 102 firepower alpha scares lights, pseudo alpha from it is usually a kill or massive component damage.

Edited by JudauAshta, 19 February 2022 - 03:58 PM.

[Tyman4]

Lights aren't supposed to fight assaults.
They're supposed to fight tanks, infantry, helicopters, and do actual scouting.
But this is a 12v12 deathmatch game....so there is only one way to balance them.

[Blood Rose]

Tyman4, on 19 February 2022 - 03:30 PM, said:

Lights aren't supposed to fight assaults.
They're supposed to fight tanks, infantry, helicopters, and do actual scouting.
But this is a 12v12 deathmatch game....so there is only one way to balance them.

Actually, it depends on the chassis. Panthers are intended to provide fire support for heavier units, and Urbanmechs are designed to ruin the day for anyone who dares step into their town, including Dire Wolves and Fatlases. Commando's and Javelins are supposed to harass heavier units whilst they are engaging your heavies and put large swarms of missiles down range and fleas are intended as a light trooper mech. Oh, and Jenners are literally designed to get around the rear of heavier Mechs and unload into them. Pumas are designed to royally mess up anything they see at long range.
So yeah, many Lights are intended to fight heavier mechs, including Assaults. The only ones we have in-game that are intended as pure scouts are, IIRC, the Spider, Locust, and Kitfox.

[pbiggz]

Tyman4, on 19 February 2022 - 03:30 PM, said:

Lights aren't supposed to fight assaults.
They're supposed to fight tanks, infantry, helicopters, and do actual scouting.
But this is a 12v12 deathmatch game....so there is only one way to balance them.

There is a vast gulf between the intended role of lights in tabletop, and the niche they can and should occupy in a real-time shooter game where the #1 priority is clicking the bad robots. For instance, one of the primary justification for lights in battletech is cost, a factor that essentially does not matter in mwo.

Its good to point this out, but, as I think you've said, there is only one way to balance them in this game, and that is, to make them capable of performing in mech-to-mech combat.

[Der Geisterbaer]

Tyman4, on 19 February 2022 - 03:30 PM, said:

Lights aren't supposed to fight assaults.

That's a highly inaccurate claim.

Tyman4, on 19 February 2022 - 03:30 PM, said:

They're supposed to fight tanks, infantry, helicopters, and do actual scouting.

Interestingly enough the Battletech tabletop (originally called BattleDroids) had Light mechs and Assault mechs way before there were any tanks or infantry as units. So no, Lights originally weren't supposed to fight tanks or infantry at all. That came significantly later. They were supposed to duke it out with whatever the opponent fielded as part of their mech force and that included Assault mechs.

As for scouting? The vast majority BT table top games are played on a singular or two or sometimes four of the standard map sheets. Larger maps can be used but that's relatively uncommon ... and while the advanced rule sets do include "double-blind" rules were each player on their turn only get's to see those enemy mechs for which they actually have LOS those rules are not that commonly used because they usually require two identical map setups (prefereably in different rooms) and a referee who shows and hides enemy units on a per turn basis for each player.

As a consequence most of the time the players do have full knowledge of where enemy units are and can plan / play accordingly ... no "scouting" needed. The only thing somewhat akin to "scouting" that happens there is a Light mech providing its LOS (sometimes enhanced with target designation) for indirect fire of LRMs and the like.

TL;DR: Stop with this false "Lights are for "scouting" and "fighting tanks / infantry" narrative. It's just plain wrong.

Edited by Der Geisterbaer, 20 February 2022 - 06:04 AM.

[FLG 01]

Also, one may keep in mind that Assaults are supposed to be rare in the BTU. It is strange that people complain about lights being too strong compared to lore or TT-rules, but never complain about the 30%+ assault Mech share of most matches.
They also never complain about beginners and below average pilots being able to field assault Mechs, when in the BTU most militaries certainly would not assign a 100t Mech to some cadet.
They also never complain that the number of light Mechs in the game is actually too low when in the lore it is the second most common Mech class (or most common, depending on the timeframe and unit).

And, of course, the idea that light Mechs are not supposed to kill other Mechs is utter nonsense on every level.