93 replies to this topic

[w0qj]

As a famous recent movie said: I can't. I guess that's the problem, isn't it?

A lot more ECM mechs in QP nowadays (ECM Dire Wolf, ECM Timber Wolf, ECM UrbanMech, I'm looking at you).
It's like, OK, who which enemy is not under ECM protection? Using TAG attracts a lot more enemy fire, literally a beacon for Light mechs to come for you. And good luck finding anyone willing to use NARC to help you.
That's not what I call fun doing LRM. Not anymore.

The only good news, just yesterday I've seen an ECM Blood Asp BAS-B with 6x LRM (with 2x missile hardpoints per arm from the new BAS-E), doing 1000+ pure LRM damage!! So it's still doable...

This is from a player who (formerly) enjoy LRM boats:
~MAD 4HP: LRM-100 or Artemis-LRM-90
~ECM Archer Tempest
~LRM Nova
~LRM Nova Cat, etc.

Edited by w0qj, 29 January 2022 - 10:32 PM.

[PocketYoda]

I don't get it either its really not that fun for me.. I can understand some players with disabilities would use them but for me its the least fun aspect of MWO, i dread missile challenges because its so boring.. I have to mix lrms with other weapons and use them up front which seems to raise eyebrows of other lurmers especially in tier 4..

I just don't like them at all.. i just use mrms or srms.

Edited by Nomad Tech, 29 January 2022 - 06:39 AM.

[Weeny Machine]

What is the difference between LRMing and sniping from half across the map? I mean, this is the meta. Nearly all matches I had today was that way. The worst was the new version of Frozen City. We killed on of them by sniping and then "all move back, we killed one". This took all in all 7 min till the other team charged and it was over 2 min later. This whole meta is dull and mind-numbening. It is like FP was copied into QP.

For me, both is terrible boring. But when I play LRMs once in a blue moon, then I use a mixed build with some lasers and get my locks myself, share armour

[pattonesque]

Weeny Machine, on 29 January 2022 - 08:25 AM, said:

What is the difference between LRMing and sniping from half across the map? I mean, this is the meta. Nearly all matches I had today was that way. The worst was the new version of Frozen City. We killed on of them by sniping and then "all move back, we killed one". This took all in all 7 min till the other team charged and it was over 2 min later. This whole meta is dull and mind-numbening. It is like FP was copied into QP.

For me, both is terrible boring. But when I play LRMs once in a blue moon, then I use a mixed build with some lasers and get my locks myself, share armour

sniping requires you to aim and expose. also while snipers are powerful, so are brawlers. I spent last night putting up 800 damage games by bullying snipers in this:

https://mwo.nav-alph...12a38_ACW-PRIME

[ScrapIron Prime]

Weeny Machine, on 29 January 2022 - 08:25 AM, said:

What is the difference between LRMing and sniping from half across the map? I mean, this is the meta. Nearly all matches I had today was that way. The worst was the new version of Frozen City. We killed on of them by sniping and then "all move back, we killed one". This took all in all 7 min till the other team charged and it was over 2 min later. This whole meta is dull and mind-numbening. It is like FP was copied into QP.

That’s an unusual amount of coordination for a quickplay match, so it won’t happen often. Used to do that a lot in group queue, but in the current game, people will either not listen or will get bored and wander off to die. Congrats to whoever herded the cats on that one!

[Weeny Machine]

pattonesque, on 29 January 2022 - 08:39 AM, said:

sniping requires you to aim and expose. also while snipers are powerful, so are brawlers. I spent last night putting up 800 damage games by bullying snipers in this:

https://mwo.nav-alph...12a38_ACW-PRIME

As I said before, it is not about power (maybe indirectly because dps builds seem to be nearly completely replaced by las vomit and sniping), it is about seeing just this gamestyle which is really mind-numbening and noxious because it has the interactivity of some 80s Commodore C64 Video games which were like a kind of shooting gallery. The variety is gone. And to get back on topic: spamming ERLL across half the map isn't that different from LRMs because the interactivity is in both cases low...if you are good, it is nil because your opponent can't do anything about it

Edited by Weeny Machine, 29 January 2022 - 09:33 AM.

[Sawk]

hmm ok i will make 3 POINTS
1 point, herding CATS, i am cat lover, am also a trained leader in the USA army RETIRED.
2 point, there is a skill set, to use LRMs. and defend from light mechs have you learned it
3 point do you have the computer, and the skills to do SAID things.

SAWK PS go watch TWITCH TV, EMP just wasted folks with LASER VOMIT : )
)

[DaZur]

Fragga ONE, on 28 January 2022 - 02:13 PM, said:

It is totally a LRM rant and goes in the bin with all the other rants. You know the lights waawaa threads the sniper threads and oh missiles threads. IT is totally a waawaa thread like the majority of posts on these forums. Weapons are reasonably balanced right now so if lrm bothers you that much I guess you dont know how to resist them, again like sooo many posts offer advice for.
TL DR make a proper ***** post that isnt made 1000 times before and isnt answered 1000 times. GL HF

You're digging too deep or are a pro-LRM snowflake...

If anything this was a LRM "pilot" rant. LRMs are innocent tools of destruction wielded by maniacs who find staring into sides of cliffs or building cathartic.

[PocketYoda]

Weeny Machine, on 29 January 2022 - 08:25 AM, said:

What is the difference between LRMing and sniping from half across the map?

Off the top of my head you must get your own locks and at least stare at the opponent some what to hit them.. LRMs do not require that.

[Blood Rose]

Nomad Tech, on 30 January 2022 - 12:36 AM, said:

Off the top of my head you must get your own locks and at least stare at the opponent some what to hit them.. LRMs do not require that.

LRM's also spread damage across the entire Mech and have more hard counters than any other weapon in the game. Or at least last I checked, we didnt have Reactive or Reflective armour, or Blue Shield. Or some form of anti-laser or anti-gauss slug system.
The only time LRM boats are scary is when they are coordinated and your out of position, otherwise they are a joke. And even so, you can survive a few volleys of missiles to the face, but the current meta PPFLD sniper blast from the other side of the map will do some serious damage and can render you effectively out of the fight in a single hit or two.
Speaking of, maps really need to be made less sniper friendly. Especially Frozen City - when I hear "city" I expect an actual urban fight, not a ww1-esque hunkering down and trading shots across a giant no mans land for most of the game.

[Snoopy]

To quote & snatch a famous barbarian :

MECHWARRIOR! WHAT IS BEST IN LIFE?
To LRM your enemies, see them LRM-driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of their LRM targets.



<sarcasm off>

LRM give the ability to indirectly project power. Anyone may or may not use this tactic.

Personally, I like using LRM for this reason, but I understand anyone who doesn't want to. However, I cannot understand a hatred against LRM (or any other specific weapon system).

IMHO: conform or face the consequences. There is more than one counter for LRM.

[LordNothing]

DaZur, on 29 January 2022 - 08:59 PM, said:

You're digging too deep or are a pro-LRM snowflake...

If anything this was a LRM "pilot" rant. LRMs are innocent tools of destruction wielded by maniacs who find staring into sides of cliffs or building cathartic.

there certainly is a right way and a wrong way to use lerms. the cliff/building watchers are definitely on the side of doing it wrong. staying in one spot and broadcasting your position every time you fire is just going to draw lights to your position. keep 'em moving and stay aware of the battlefield is better. shooting on the move is one thing lerms are good at. use them with team support or direct support by a dedicated spotter or another lerm boat (tag team) is even better.

[YueFei]

Weeny Machine, on 29 January 2022 - 09:32 AM, said:

As I said before, it is not about power (maybe indirectly because dps builds seem to be nearly completely replaced by las vomit and sniping), it is about seeing just this gamestyle which is really mind-numbening and noxious because it has the interactivity of some 80s Commodore C64 Video games which were like a kind of shooting gallery. The variety is gone. And to get back on topic: spamming ERLL across half the map isn't that different from LRMs because the interactivity is in both cases low...if you are good, it is nil because your opponent can't do anything about it

We saw brawl still work in the most recent MWO tournaments. So you're wrong about how "if you are good, [...] your opponent can't do anything about it.", counter play options do exist.

I think you need to examine your emotional response, tone it down a bit, and try to be more objective, instead of denigrating an entire range-bracket's playstyle just because it isn't your preferred playstyle. I mean, I also prefer brawling more than anything else, but I have to be rational about it, recognize my own biases, and avoid letting those biases taint my thinking.

Your statements also imply a feeling of helplessness when facing enemies with long-ranged weapons, and this is not a good mindset to have. Not only are you paralyzing your own decision-making process ("oh, there's nothing I can do, may as well throw my arms in the air and give up"), but you're enabling yourself to make excuses when you lose against it. When you do that, you're not going to be able to own up to your own mistakes or use creativity to imagine alternative choices you could've made to defeat those long-ranged enemies.

Yeah, sometimes you're going to just get outplayed... but don't blame your loss on the opposition playstyles. I have games in my brawler where I do like 30 damage and die having done barely anything. I also have games where I know I've carried the match because I smashed through 3 enemies, tanked incoming fire like a champ, ran outta ammo, and then baited the enemy into continuing to shoot at my out-of-ammo mech so other teammates could continue to safely pour fire in.

I'd recommend trying to play some long-range yourself, in order to understand its weaknesses. You're certainly aware of its strengths, and you're fixated on that, but it does have weaknesses as well, and you'll become more acutely aware of those weaknesses once you try it out and get trucked a few times by enemies exploiting those weaknesses.

Edited by YueFei, 30 January 2022 - 11:21 AM.

[Weeny Machine]

YueFei, on 30 January 2022 - 11:21 AM, said:

We saw brawl still work in the most recent MWO tournaments. So you're wrong about how "if you are good, [...] your opponent can't do anything about it.", counter play options do exist.

I think you need to examine your emotional response, tone it down a bit, and try to be more objective, instead of denigrating an entire range-bracket's playstyle just because it isn't your preferred playstyle. I mean, I also prefer brawling more than anything else, but I have to be rational about it, recognize my own biases, and avoid letting those biases taint my thinking.

Your statements also imply a feeling of helplessness when facing enemies with long-ranged weapons, and this is not a good mindset to have. Not only are you paralyzing your own decision-making process ("oh, there's nothing I can do, may as well throw my arms in the air and give up"), but you're enabling yourself to make excuses when you lose against it. When you do that, you're not going to be able to own up to your own mistakes or use creativity to imagine alternative choices you could've made to defeat those long-ranged enemies.

Yeah, sometimes you're going to just get outplayed... but don't blame your loss on the opposition playstyles. I have games in my brawler where I do like 30 damage and die having done barely anything. I also have games where I know I've carried the match because I smashed through 3 enemies, tanked incoming fire like a champ, ran outta ammo, and then baited the enemy into continuing to shoot at my out-of-ammo mech so other teammates could continue to safely pour fire in.

I'd recommend trying to play some long-range yourself, in order to understand its weaknesses. You're certainly aware of its strengths, and you're fixated on that, but it does have weaknesses as well, and you'll become more acutely aware of those weaknesses once you try it out and get trucked a few times by enemies exploiting those weaknesses.

I only feel helpless when the enemy team and my team decide that each sit on a hill and snipe away for minutes. Sure, I can get close to the other team and harass them but it is just too risky. And sure, I can get good scores with my 3LPPC lights. But then I am contributing to the gallery shooter this game has become

As I said before, the interactivity got lower compared to two years ago. But to each his own I guess

[1453 R]

One thing worth noting that I haven't seen elsewise in here - Clan LRMs, at the least, are the only option for making use of a small number of missile hardpoints. ATMs are absolutely godawful, I try and try to use them but every time I do I'm reminded of the absolute travesty that is a 120-meter hard-cutoff minimum range on "Multirange" Advanced Tactical Missiles.

LRMs are a weight-efficient weapon for smaller, lighter chassis that may not have the massed hardpoints for other options, and some players can use LRMs from mobile platforms to influence the battlefield. Nothing gets a Puglandian's brain in meltdown mode like taking LRM fire; the minute Betty starts yelling "INCOMING MISSILES", whatever else that Puglandian was doing is out the window. You don't need a lot of missiles to accomplish that, either. One of my favorite medium 'Mechs combines a moderate number of tubes and a pretty light ammo loadout with a big huge stonkin' battery of red lasers. I constantly get flak for it. "LAWL why bother with missiles, you coulda had heat sinks" and such. Answer? The Stormcrow's a crap brawler, LRMs let me steer Puglandians by the nose if I have to and contribute to the game when they're playing pokey-snipey chickendickery, while the 'Mech has enough cooling to finish wounded targets. It's bracket build nonsense and comps hate it, but one might be surprised how often it works out in Puglandia. Heck, more than once the face TAG has helped me bust open a stealth bug's stealth and draw the ire of the team down upon it, even as it figures out the 'LRM boat' has enough red lasers to give it fatal heartburn if it doesn't ********** and leave me be. One of this 'Mech's notable jobs is escorting other LRM idjits that don't bother with subweapons, contributing my fire to theirs and keeping them clean of twigweights.

There's ways to make the weapons work. Primarily because while doing smegloads of damage and racking up a huge score is great, so is winning games. Lerms are a tool one can use to win games, and frankly sometimes a girl just feels like slingin' warheads. They're a weapon in the game, why not use them?

[Duke Falcon]

Noone would read it or bother anyhow, so I am free to make this...

I were a staunch LRM-hater since TT BT through MW 2-3 episodes up to MW4 Mercs. I thought missiles are useless crap and waste of space from ACs and PPCs (you know those ARE the real weapons for a mech, so C'mon!). I first surprised when tried streak SRM6 in MW4M and turned out those are cool stuffs. But still loathed LRMs generally and ATMs were no exceptation. Then many things happened, among them series of chemo made my hands with near constant tremors, what made me have hard time with DF (direct firing) weapons and aiming in general. Then I tried LRMs in MWO and realised whom f**king effective they are either with locks or used as DF mode without lock. I started to raise lurmer builds and became a decent lurmer. I am a hell if pilot lurmers, no maps such as Solaris city could help against me. But I play much FP and lurming there is generally shunned, most not care if you lurming because of health-issues or not. NO LURMING most of the times what said yet sometimes I DO. And rocks and feels good that I could hit something and do kills!
But the coin have another side. LRMs are a trap. Not much lurmer recognise it but it is. Many start to think that lurmers mean "gimme locks and protect me loosers" but no! Sadly more and more such lurmers appear whom not even bother to bring other stuff than LRMs. No TAG, no f**king laser. And guess, lights hunt them down and the team would not bother. Playing with lurmers make most people stuck. At that end started I tend toward MRMs for IS builds. For clan builds I kept lurmers for special FP missions where they could be still usefull or when I drop with a group ask me to bring lurmer. Otherwise try to avoid lurmers despite that I hardly could aim with my trembling hands.
Pros and cons, LRM is a decent weapon if one learn to use them (mean: get locks and bring some self-def stuffs) but have many traps. LRM could force a toxic play-style from people what swiftly trigger the accusations and critics of others with a good reason. I think LRMs would be a "no-go" for starters (noobs) and may advice to use them only if passed cadet time and played about 40-50 matches already otherwise you would fall in the trap. If you heed my advice you would start to use them with decent game experience and thus lurmer builds would not only fun to play but really helpfull for your team without the constant need of baby-sitting your from lights (what they would not do, so...).

[Blood Rose]

YueFei, on 30 January 2022 - 11:21 AM, said:

[Sniperium cope]

Lol. You can make these claims when, and only when, the so called "city" maps in this game are not dominated by vast open no mechs lands in the middle, terrain is not being adjusted to favour sniping, and HPG has its easy access walls fixed and masses of cover added to the centre to prevent brawls becoming pinned down focused fights around what little cover there is.

[Sawk]

LOL all good reading, what you all said----- COULD be a full chapter in a book, thing is LRMs are part of this GAME. need more MASTERS, its only 1 weapon system -- or is it a tool.

SAWK

[YueFei]

Weeny Machine, on 30 January 2022 - 11:42 AM, said:

I only feel helpless when the enemy team and my team decide that each sit on a hill and snipe away for minutes. Sure, I can get close to the other team and harass them but it is just too risky. And sure, I can get good scores with my 3LPPC lights. But then I am contributing to the gallery shooter this game has become

As I said before, the interactivity got lower compared to two years ago. But to each his own I guess

You denigrate long-range play as if it has very little "interactivity". And as a fellow brawler, I'm telling you, you're wrong about long-ranged play.

Like, imagine you play basketball, and you have an amazing post game, but you sneer at everyone else who shoots midranges and three-pointers. As if only the biggest and tallest playing under the basket are playing the game "properly".

That's what you sound like right now.

Blood Rose, on 30 January 2022 - 02:25 PM, said:

Lol. You can make these claims when, and only when, the so called "city" maps in this game are not dominated by vast open no mechs lands in the middle, terrain is not being adjusted to favour sniping, and HPG has its easy access walls fixed and masses of cover added to the centre to prevent brawls becoming pinned down focused fights around what little cover there is.

I dunno about you, but my best W/L ratio comes in brawlers. I've also played plenty of games in mid-range or long-range, but my W/L ratio in those are significantly lower than what I get in brawlers.

If I want to win more often, I will play brawl over mid-range or long-range.

Look, I've made my share of positioning mistakes as a brawler, and I've realized that you got mentally to rewind your movement 2 or 3 steps to realize where you went wrong. While it may feel that the proximate cause of your demise is that you're taking fire from enemies outside of your effective range and you have no way to get out, you must realize that you made poor choices and maneuvered yourself into position to be pinned in the first place. When selecting a path/position, you gotta be mindful of where your covered routes of egress are going to be in case you need to use them.

I have my starchy moments, too, and potato my way into stupid places and get wrecked. Thing is, I'll own up to my own stupidity and that's how I learn.

Edited by YueFei, 31 January 2022 - 12:10 AM.

[PocketYoda]

Snoopy, on 30 January 2022 - 05:31 AM, said:

To quote & snatch a famous barbarian :

MECHWARRIOR! WHAT IS BEST IN LIFE?
To LRM your enemies, see them LRM-driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of their LRM targets.



<sarcasm off>

LRM give the ability to indirectly project power. Anyone may or may not use this tactic.

Personally, I like using LRM for this reason, but I understand anyone who doesn't want to. However, I cannot understand a hatred against LRM (or any other specific weapon system).

IMHO: conform or face the consequences. There is more than one counter for LRM.

They are a lazy mans weapon.