191 replies to this topic

[w0qj]

Clicky for MWO 2022 Roadmap (WIP--Work In Progress)
https://mwomercs.com/roadmap
https://mwomercs.com...road-map-update

Basically the Crusader mech pack is the "booster mech pack", ETA on/about 21-June-2022.

The next Booster mech pack (or Hero mech pack) should be announced in July 2022.

Now here's to hoping that there is new Clan mech chassis introduction in the 2nd Half of 2022 !!
Phoenix Hawk IIC, or Urbanmech IIC?

Lockheed_, on 10 April 2022 - 08:32 AM, said:

So, when is the next Booster Pack going to be announced?

[McGrizzled]

Yeah, that much clicking isn't necessary. The 'Respec Skill Tree' button will deactivate all of your Active nodes in effectively 2 clicks.

Skills page > Current Mech Enhancements panel (upper right) > RESPEC SKILL TREE button (1) > Ok button on reset Skill Tree popup (2) > DO NOT Apply Changes

When done, return to Skills > Current Mech Enhancements > REVERT CHANGES button > Ok button on revert Skill Tree popup

C337Skymaster, on 09 April 2022 - 07:27 PM, said:

As functional as your method is, it still sounds more click-heavy and labor intensive than just finding the same chassis in the in-game store and looking through the quirks there, which is what most people have been doing, anyway.

Edited by McGrizzled, 10 April 2022 - 09:01 AM.

[Reno Blade]

To really specialize into one thing, wouldn't it make sense to do each tree deeper with more nodes?
e.g.
being able to spend ~ 22 points to get 22% cooldown instead of 16 points for 9.6%
being able to spend ~ 22 points to get 22% range instead of 15 points for 15%
being able to spend ~ 10 points to get 30% velocity instead of 5 points for 15%
being able to spend ~ 10 points to get 30% velocity instead of 5 points for 15%
being able to spend ~ 22 points to get 83% structure instead of 10 points for 38%
being able to spend ~ 22 points to get 50% armor instead of 10 points for 23%

[Roodkapje]

Where is the written version that I can read a lot faster compared to watching a video on that horrible YouTube ?!?!

Not all of us are part of "The YouTube Generation"

PraetorGix, on 07 April 2022 - 08:37 AM, said:

Ohh, those preview pics look interesting. Still complicated for new players but overall less nodes if I'm not mistaken? Promising.

Complicated ?!

More like :

Titan Prometheus, on 07 April 2022 - 09:40 AM, said:

'dumbing the game down'

GweNTLeR, on 07 April 2022 - 09:33 AM, said:

Wow new skill tree is so lame. I really dont like the changes.
Skill tree was something that was making gameplay unique for each player, even with similar mech builds.

This is what the world is these days : Simplify everything because everyone has become an dumb dumb!

martian, on 07 April 2022 - 09:37 AM, said:

2. It seems that the time-to-kill will go down in MWO.

We are already at that point as things are right now and even more since the Cauldron crap...

Quote

Essentially, no matter what battlefield role your 'Mech has, you will be able to more or less disregard all skill nodes not relevant for your role and unlock only those nodes that will make your 'Mech more lethal. I guess that many players will start to ignore all those Hill Climbs and similar nodes.

Again : That's already the case!

Garran Tana, on 07 April 2022 - 09:53 AM, said:

While the skill tree is better it's still bad that xp to sp conversion isn't automatic.
xp should change into sp automatically, same as gxp should turn into gsp as soon as you cumulate enough of the xp to be a sp. You just don't bother to mess around with xp, xp only tells you how far is for the next sp.

Even better : NO SKILL TREE!!!111oneoneone

Dumbing it down to the max! LOL!



When I have some more time I will start reading at Page 3 to 8 and see what weird stuff I encounter on those pages...
Should be fun!

Edited by Roodkapje, 10 April 2022 - 10:45 AM.

[minnowzzz]

Lockheed_, on 10 April 2022 - 11:00 AM, said:

unfortunate. I'm happy to spend 20 bucks on a pack with 2 unique camo patterns and bolt-ons, but I'm not paying for a bunch of standard mechs that I can buy 6 months later for c-bills.

I hope the next announcement is another Booster Pack and not another new chassis if they take up the development time and space of the Booster Packs.

thing is the reason why you will be able to buy said mech with C-bills is because there are people willing to pay money for it. PGI needs to make money. and from what I know from the MW5 modding scene and from what I know of the development of these Chassis, a new Chassis takes a ton of work. more so to the quality that PGI makes them.

Edited by minnowzzz, 10 April 2022 - 02:07 PM.

[Lionheart2012]

Lionheart2012, on 07 April 2022 - 08:19 PM, said:

So I have seen the Devlog and I have reviewed the screenshots. I agree with the sentiment that more powerful nodes should be more difficult to obtain. However, speed tweak never required all of the acceleration nodes prior to obtaining them, and you would want to balance acceleration with deceleration to ensure you could stop at that corner appropriately. I think it would be better to split speed tweak between the acceleration and deceleration trees, and likely off the 3rd and fourth nodes of those trees.

Further, I think that radar deprivation being so difficult to obtain, while target decay is so easy, will lead to the next lurmaggedon. And I know the veteran response, learn to find cover ("git gud scrub"), which is patronizing in the least. I am a veteran, and I do know how to find cover, but target decay will neutralize that cover for a certain amount of time. This is why radar deprivation is a necessary counter. However, I also understand the balance in ensuring that missile weapons need some viability. The old system seemed to have reasonable viability where most could get 60% radar deprivation and investing only 1 sensor range node. But if you wanted 100% radar deprivation, then you would need to invest in another 3 sensor range nodes. I would propose updating the sensor tree as follows:

Here is my adaptation of the Kenetic Burst and Hard Brake trees:



Notably this allows one to use the same minimum number of hard brake nodes and one additional kenetic burst node than using the right side of the current tree.

Edited by Lionheart2012, 10 April 2022 - 06:56 PM.

[PocketYoda]

I like it thanks making mechs more generic across the board is good, keep it up.

[VaMPHuNT]

Lockheed_, on 10 April 2022 - 11:00 AM, said:

unfortunate. I'm happy to spend 20 bucks on a pack with 2 unique camo patterns and bolt-ons, but I'm not paying for a bunch of standard mechs that I can buy 6 months later for c-bills.

I hope the next announcement is another Booster Pack and not another new chassis if they take up the development time and space of the Booster Packs.

Pretty sure a very high percentage of the playerbase would welcome a brand new chassis (With 4-6 variants including a hero/special/etc) over more booster packs that just add more variants to an already bloated tree of pre-existing mechs that have been min/maxed to death and back.

Honestly? I welcome just about all actual new content to the game, means it's doing well enough to warrant further development on the game and continued investment into the game by PGI. Booster packs that just introduce new special variants of pre-existing mechs take quite a bit less time, effort, and funds to produce, which is why they're inherently cheaper than mech pre-orders for brand new chassis.

Edited by VaMPHuNT, 10 April 2022 - 08:29 PM.

[Horseman]

Reno Blade, on 10 April 2022 - 10:29 AM, said:

To really specialize into one thing, wouldn't it make sense to do each tree deeper with more nodes?
e.g.
being able to spend ~ 22 points to get 22% cooldown instead of 16 points for 9.6%
being able to spend ~ 22 points to get 22% range instead of 15 points for 15%
being able to spend ~ 10 points to get 30% velocity instead of 5 points for 15%
being able to spend ~ 10 points to get 30% velocity instead of 5 points for 15%
being able to spend ~ 22 points to get 83% structure instead of 10 points for 38%
being able to spend ~ 22 points to get 50% armor instead of 10 points for 23%

That's way too much power creep. Fuly skilled mechs already enjoy ~30-40% better overall performance in the current system, and this gap will only increase further with the new layout (I'd guess another ~5-10%). Your changes would allow them to double the difference.

[Vellron2005]

I for one welcome the proposed changes, especially the skill tree changes. This will bring completely new ways to skill your mech, and some much needed variety.

It will also completely shake up the meta, but sadly, probably in a negative way, since things that were good before will now become better. For me, as an LRM enthusiast, that means instead of using up non-desirable nodes to get to my missile nodes and range nodes, I can now invest more nodes in sensors and heat management. For someone using long range direct fire weapons, they will probably have more nodes to spare on radar deprivation..

With that, I propose that some of these nodes go under the microscope and are re-balanced. radar deprivation and ECM is waaaaay to powerful, and will now be even cheaper to get..

As far as the event queue goes, I also welcome the change, as it will make the game more versatile, and will sometimes force the players to play more fair, or to adapt other play styles. The negative thing about this is that the population will once again split, so we might get instances where either the event queue, or normal quick play has very long wait times.

MWO's population is still very slim, so I'm sad that it took all this time to implement this.We needed this years ago..

[Roodkapje]

Vellron2005, on 11 April 2022 - 12:53 AM, said:

I for one welcome the proposed changes, especially the skill tree changes. This will bring completely new ways to skill your mech, and some much needed variety.

Not really...

Quote

For me, as an LRM enthusiast, that means instead of using up non-desirable nodes to get to my missile nodes and range nodes, I can now invest more nodes in sensors and heat management.

Why would you not use the Range/Cooldown/Heat and even Velocity nodes when skilling a LURM mech ?!

I don't see those as not being usefull when skilling my MRM/SRM/Streak mechs

Quote

For someone using long range direct fire weapons, they will probably have more nodes to spare on radar deprivation...

Never used those unless it's a Light mech which has some nodes left, but even then I would rather go for one more UAV or extending the range and duration of the UAV

Quote

With that, I propose that some of these nodes go under the microscope and are re-balanced. radar deprivation and ECM is waaaaay to powerful, and will now be even cheaper to get..

One PPC shot is all it takes to consider ECM as useless for all those Lights attacking your big slow Assault buddies!

[LordNothing]

Ghoja, on 09 April 2022 - 01:58 PM, said:

Just a quick message to all those who are complaining about not seeing the skill bonuses separate from quirks....

If you want to see what your mech looks like stock:
1- Go to skills
2- Click the top node in each section to strip the skills, DON'T save
3- Go back to loadout and bring up mech stats.
4- Go back to skills and revert changes to put your skills back.

This new layout will make that more click heavy, but I like the separation in the new layout.

Also:
Right now you can also skill your mech in the skill tree (including over 91), go back to loadout and test run it before actually purchasing the skills (Can't purchase if over 91 obviously but can still see how it'd run in testing grounds). Same goes for weapon loadouts and such, can test run with skills before buying/saving the loadout.

If you aren't taking advantage of the above, minus the overskill, then you probably should.

Honestly, I would have probably buried the laser duration some as well, but overall, I like what I'm seeing.

Also, those who are griping about the no refund, in the video, they stated that the purchases of the nodes will carry over to the new layout. You do NOT have to rebuy every node. You might have a couple to get if you depending on which way you went through the current tree, but most likely, you'll have what you need (and some you'll do away with.)

its easier just to go look it up in the in-game store. mechdb also works, for those situations where you are in the middle of a build and dont want to mess it up. either way is a long way from just having the data right there. even the minimally viable way they went with is a vast improvement. i think it could be better, but you have to pick your battles.

Edited by LordNothing, 12 April 2022 - 06:45 PM.

[C337Skymaster]

Roodkapje, on 11 April 2022 - 10:22 AM, said:

Not really...


Why would you not use the Range/Cooldown/Heat and even Velocity nodes when skilling a LURM mech ?!

I don't see those as not being usefull when skilling my MRM/SRM/Streak mechs


Never used those unless it's a Light mech which has some nodes left, but even then I would rather go for one more UAV or extending the range and duration of the UAV


One PPC shot is all it takes to consider ECM as useless for all those Lights attacking your big slow Assault buddies!

Target Decay is a very important set of skills to get on a LRM 'mech, and Sensor Range is helpful in combating the long-range effects of ECM, neither of which are necessary for any other type of missile.

PPCs are my favorite anti-ECM weapon, but in modern MWO, you need several PPCs on chain fire so you can knock out the two or three overlapping ECMs in the same area. Eventually, though, the heat sinking requirements for all those PPCs will use up all the spare tonnage you had for LRMs.

[w0qj]

I strongly feel that maximum Radar Deprivation should be reduced to a maximum of 75% to 80% Radar Deprivation. And the last few Radar Deprivation skill nodes should be buried deeper into Skill Trees.

100% Radar Deprivation (just 5x skill nodes with no 'filler nodes opportunity cost) would largely negate your primary LRM weapons, and negate your 5x Target Decay skill nodes, and also negate your 5x Sensor Range skill nodes.
[Sarcastic:] Not bad for just 10x 5x skill node investment into 100% Radar Deprivation, right?

[Edit]
[Proposed Skill Tree May/June 2022: just 10 [Edit: not 5] skill points to achieve 100% Radar Deprivation.]
[/Edit]

<<Don't laugh, it just happened to me today; my LRM Timber Wolf had great trouble even shooting at a Mad Dog with 100% Radar Deprivation; he was purposely running between the low/small dividers in HPG Manifold>>

Everyone and their dog would be getting the 5x Radar Deprivation skill nodes, from the freed up 'filler skill nodes' that you can now skip entirely.

I strongly feel that maximum Radar Deprivation should be reduced to a maximum of 75% to 80% Radar Deprivation. And the last few Radar Deprivation skill nodes should be buried deeper into Skill Trees.
~This leaves headroom for certain mechs to boost it close to 100% Radar Deprivation:
Phoenix Hawk (+20% additional Radar Deprivation)
Hellbringer (+20% additional Radar Deprivation)
Night Gyr (+25% additional Radar Deprivation)
Blood Asp (+25% additional Radar Deprivation)

C337Skymaster, on 12 April 2022 - 06:47 PM, said:

Target Decay is a very important set of skills to get on a LRM 'mech, and Sensor Range is helpful in combating the long-range effects of ECM, neither of which are necessary for any other type of missile.

PPCs are my favorite anti-ECM weapon, but in modern MWO, you need several PPCs on chain fire so you can knock out the two or three overlapping ECMs in the same area. Eventually, though, the heat sinking requirements for all those PPCs will use up all the spare tonnage you had for LRMs.

Edited by w0qj, 13 April 2022 - 06:48 PM.

[Horseman]

w0qj, on 12 April 2022 - 07:59 PM, said:

I strongly feel that maximum Radar Deprivation should be reduced to a maximum of 75% to 80% Radar Deprivation. And the last few Radar Deprivation skill nodes should be buried deeper into Skill Trees.
Everyone and their dog would be getting the 5x Radar Deprivation skill nodes, from the freed up 'filler skill nodes' that you can now skip entirely.
I strongly feel that maximum Radar Deprivation should be reduced to a maximum of 75% to 80% Radar Deprivation. And the last few Radar Deprivation skill nodes should be buried deeper into Skill Trees.
~This leaves headroom for certain mechs to boost it close to 100% Radar Deprivation:
Phoenix Hawk (+20% additional Radar Deprivation)
Hellbringer (+20% additional Radar Deprivation)
Night Gyr (+25% additional Radar Deprivation)
Blood Asp (+25% additional Radar Deprivation)

Reducing it to 15% per node might work?

Edited by Horseman, 13 April 2022 - 12:14 AM.

[C337Skymaster]

I am 100% on board and in agreement with a Radar Dep strength reduction, and think it is long overdue. It's completely understandable to lose lock if a target retreats into cover, but if a target just walks behind a pillar, or a rock, or tree, or even another 'mech for just a split second, it is unreasonable to immediately lose ALL of the target lock progress you had managed to achieve over the previous 5-10 seconds of exposure.

Edited by C337Skymaster, 14 April 2022 - 04:55 AM.

[Horseman]

Lockheed_, on 13 April 2022 - 05:08 AM, said:

I think target decay strength is fine. being able to retain locks on a target that is out of line of sight to everyone should not be a thing in the first place. it's literally wall hack.

It's "fine" until you hit 100% and locks are broken instantly when your opponents lose LOS, no matter how much Target Decay they have. With the skill tree rework, that 100% will be extremely easy to get.

Edited by Horseman, 13 April 2022 - 05:17 AM.

[Horseman]

Lockheed_, on 13 April 2022 - 06:49 AM, said:

there should be no way to retain locks at all.

As we all know, PGI designed the game with the opposite idea: that locks are retained for several seconds after breaking LOS. Radar Deprivation, as it currently is, completely negates both that (~3s) and any investment into Target Decay skills (max 3.5s).

The proposed reduction of Radar Derp to 15% per node would reduce that retention to 1.6s with a maxed Target Decay tree, 0.8s without - and, given that we have mechs with Radar Derp quirks, it would make those quirks actually significant when those chassis would be able to reduce the retention to 0.3s or 0s when others cannot.

Edited by Horseman, 13 April 2022 - 09:22 AM.

[Nightbird]

Horseman, on 13 April 2022 - 05:16 AM, said:

It's "fine" until you hit 100% and locks are broken instantly when your opponents lose LOS, no matter how much Target Decay they have. With the skill tree rework, that 100% will be extremely easy to get.

Do people get 100% today though? Most people I know don't because survival is useful against all damage types.

[Horseman]

Nightbird, on 13 April 2022 - 11:23 AM, said:

Do people get 100% today though? Most people I know don't because survival is useful against all damage types.

They do, especially for ECM mechs since most of the required nodes are already part of the investment into Enhanced ECM.
In the new tree, the opportunity cost will be substantially smaller, making the expense much easier. So yes, I'd say that that is reason enough to make that skill less than 100% reduction when maxed, while leaving room to max it by stacking quirks on top.