86 replies to this topic

[sosegado]

If your going to use a Tier system at least make sure it works.
Ostensibly it's a measure of a Pilots Skill but that's just laughable.

I know I shouldn't care but dammit I kinda do.
It's so broken I'm looking for reasons to keep playing.

I've been playing and defending this game for over a decade so I have some battle scars.
But even I have my limit.

I can't perform every battle like (insert your favorite Tier 1 You Tuber here) but when I have a good game (judge for yourselves by the pictures below) and PGI tells me it just wasn't good enough by their standards to advance then there really isn't any reason for me to continue.

There's no carrot, there's only stick. There's no path forward so I'm just going to leave this here.

Edited by Stab Wound, 20 July 2022 - 06:12 AM.

[Escef]

The formula for this was made by the community, not PGI.

Just because you had a good game, does not mean you did well enough to merit a bump in PSR. In such games, you likely got matched with lower tier players and didn't seal club as hard as the formula expected you to.

The current PSR system is not an XP bar. It is designed to place you where you will be most competitive. You will bob up and down within that area frequently. If "there's no carrot, only stick", the problem is that you have risen too high and are failing to meet expectations, and so you are sinking back down as a correction.

[pattonesque]

Generally you have to significantly overperform in match score to get an up arrow on the losing team. Also the red arrow shows you went down, but in both these cases you probably only went down by an extremely small amount. If you keep up these performances consistently you will definitely climb!

[pattonesque]

also I notice you play primarily assaults -- what kinda builds are you using? I can help tighten some of them up if you'd like!

[martian]

Stab Wound, on 16 July 2022 - 08:30 AM, said:

I can't perform every battle like (insert your favorite Tier 1 You Tuber here) but when I have a good game (judge for yourselves by the pictures below) and PGI tells me it just wasn't good enough by their standards to advance then there really isn't any reason for me to continue.

You feel that you had a good game, but the fact is that you were the fifth best player of the defeated team.

I did the maths and unless I made some error, you lost -3 PSR points - so the loss was quite small.

Stab Wound, on 16 July 2022 - 08:30 AM, said:

You had the "=" sign, so you lost no PSR. Where is the problem?

Stab Wound, on 16 July 2022 - 08:30 AM, said:

There's no carrot, there's only stick. There's no path forward so I'm just going to leave this here.

Obviously, there "is" path forward, since some players have moved to Tier 1 since the PSR reset. Some of them are solo players.

[Gagis]

Its hard to go up on a defeat.

Win/loss records are the ultimate measure of skill so its good the system weighs winning and losing a lot.

If they hid the arrow, I bet youd be happy.

[RickySpanish]

OP just play Light 'Mechs and you will get to T1 EZ. They are more effective than Assaults. You want to pick one with armour quirks, then get full structure and armour skill nodes, and now you have as much armour as a Medium. "B b b but Lights get w w worst m matchscore, s senpai!". Yeah, because people keep playing crap builds, die, and give up. Learn to play a Light decently and you will out perform every chump in a Direwolf. Also hidden bonus - when your team goes full 'tard, you can easily reposition to mitigate their stupidity. I heartily recommend the Incubus or Urbie.

[martian]

RickySpanish, on 16 July 2022 - 09:12 AM, said:

OP just play Light 'Mechs and you will get to T1 EZ. They are more effective than Assaults. You want to pick one with armour quirks, then get full structure and armour skill nodes, and now you have as much armour as a Medium. "B b b but Lights get w w worst m matchscore, s senpai!". Yeah, because people keep playing crap builds, die, and give up. Learn to play a Light decently and you will out perform every chump in a Direwolf. Also hidden bonus - when your team goes full 'tard, you can easily reposition to mitigate their stupidity. I heartily recommend the Incubus or Urbie.

I think that the OP loves his Daishi too much.

[w0qj]

Hey Stab Wound, here's hoping that you would enjoy your stay in MWO revamped

A) What you are asking is basically "How can I increase my PSR Tier by improving my match score".
Here are some pointers:
~Damage is king. 800+ damage very likely pull your match score & PSR up singlehandedly.
~More Kill Assists (I define this as 8+ Kill Assists) also pull up your match score & PSR.
~Well placed UAV and its bonuses triggered also pull up your match score (scouting, ECM counter, locked damage, etc.)
~Unconventional, but equipping AMS and shooting down missiles not aimed at you also count as Kill Assist when that foe dies.

***Killing Blow by itself does not get you very far in march score & PSR per se.
Hence your initial disappointment and motivation in this posting.

As for PSR up/down arrow, it's well documented that:
~How well you did as compared to your 12-man Team has major bearings in your PSR.
~How well you did compared to all 24 players also has bearings in your PSR.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Therefore to quickly improve your PSR, aim for something this:
1x Kill, 800 damage, 8+ Kill Assists

Edited by w0qj, 16 July 2022 - 09:41 AM.

[w0qj]

Part B )

Are you using mainly ballistic weapons for your DWF-B (-2.5% heat, +10% velocity)?
Why are you are insisting on DWF-B, is it because of the 1x energy hardpoint in CT of DWF-B ?

This is better for ballistic weapons:
DWF-A has -5% Heat, +10% velocity, and this better than your DWF-B.

Or, if CBills matter more to you, consider DWF-UV whose CT has -2.5% heat, +10% velocity, +30% CBills bonus!

Edited by w0qj, 16 July 2022 - 09:47 AM.

[w0qj]

My own anecdotal observation:

If you are on the losing team:
~Top two match score players within your Team gets "up" PSR arrow
~3rd match player gets "=" PSR arrow
~Generally the rest of the 9 players on the losing side gets a "down" PSR arrow

If you are on the winning team:
~Bottom three match score players within your Team gets "down" PSR arrow (ie: pretty hard to go PSR down if you put in an honest effort!)

~ymmv

pattonesque, on 16 July 2022 - 08:37 AM, said:

Generally you have to significantly overperform in match score to get an up arrow on the losing team. Also the red arrow shows you went down, but in both these cases you probably only went down by an extremely small amount. If you keep up these performances consistently you will definitely climb!

[MrVaad]

Honestly, that XP bar concept feels so bad.
It would probably be better if Tiers worked like a global ranking of all MWO players (not an XP bar).

T1, you are in the 20% highest ranked players (or 5% as you wish )
T5, you are in the 20% lowest ranked players.

At least, Tiers could be recalculated every week/month/season ?

Edited by MrVaad, 16 July 2022 - 10:15 AM.

[CFC Conky]

How are your Jarl's stats trending Stab Wound? Is the line on the graph going up, level, down? I find that this is a better indication of progress than Tiers.

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

[pattonesque]

CFC Conky, on 16 July 2022 - 10:42 AM, said:

How are your Jarl's stats trending Stab Wound? Is the line on the graph going up, level, down? I find that this is a better indication of progress than Tiers.

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

he's had four or five pretty good months in a row! Actually I've noticed this a lot -- whenever someone posts a thread along these lines, they're usually having the best few months of their MWO careers.

[BellatorMonk]

Having been back only two weeks after being gone for years I was getting slightly dejected over the apparent loss to win ratio despite my efforts (which were not always enough to win, so there is that) or the team in general.

I had been trying all these cheese youtuber builds for one, not being patient, or to timid when needing to be aggressive, etc. I thought brawling was dead and replaced by cheesy medium to long range sniping and the seemingly new (to me at least) "light meta".

I tried all this crap and was marginally successful in playing a couple OP lights, cheese builds or straight sniper configs, but not enough to feel like I was doing my 100% best.

Just in the last two days I realized that I needed to go back to solid builds that are designed to push out the alpha damage they are meant to at the role they were designed for (with a few exceptions until I learn the mech's capability) and went back to brawling in almost all my Assaults and Heavies, skirmishing in my Mediums and multi-role in my Lights as needed.

I have stopped obsessing over the win or loss for the most part and realized I just need to dish out the most damage I can in order to attain the goal of making 250k-450k cbills per match and an = or + PR, win or lose.

The realization that most, not all, of these youtubing cheese builds were designed to be run with a full lance of premades on comms and the "fabulous wins" displayed are cherry picked. I went back to the basics of letting the pawns and meat shields go first while I farm damage, do my part based on my build designed around mostly alpha strikes doing 3-5 alphas before heat max. Rinse and repeat since I am technically a filthy casual in the QPlay/PUGs.

Since then I have a net positive on wins, more importantly to me, my cbills earnings per match went up and my PR stabilized and started increasing....win or loss.

Lastly, I am looking forward to the MM changes this month to see how that changes the win/loss ratios in QPlay. There are far to many premades running wild on solo casuals in QPlay which is 50% of the reason for these unbalanced matches.

No offense meant to the "youtubers" either. I want to thank Sean Lang, TTB, Bardul and even TheB33F for all their videos, Bardul and TTB being the most entertaining for me It did help me immensely to get back into the saddle.

Edited by BellatorMonk, 16 July 2022 - 01:29 PM.

[Felbombling]

Embrace the horror and just play. If you are meant to be tier 1, you'll eventually get there. No sense stressing over it match to match, unless it is a point of pride for you or something.

[Kanil]

Stab Wound, on 16 July 2022 - 08:30 AM, said:

There's no carrot, there's only stick. There's no path forward so I'm just going to leave this here.

You say that like losing PSR after good matches is a guarantee rather than a rare occurrence. Is not the carrot all the other times you did 500+ damage and went up in PSR?

Like seriously, I looked through my last 300 something matches and I had exactly one where I lost PSR after doing at least the 536 damage in your screenshot.

Meanwhile, I had four matches where I did sub-300 damage but still gained PSR.



Was this a good match? No, it really, really wasn't, and yet... maybe MWO has more carrot and less stick than you think.

[crazytimes]

PSR is not a reward system. If you're struggling to do well in the lower tiers, playing much better players will not improve your enjoyment.

One of the issues with lower tier matches and PSR understanding is that there is much more damage on offer. People use more spread weapons with less accuracy, which means the scores are inflated across the board for damage and MS. That means people like you are surprised that their damage figures doesn't have them in the top 3 of their team.

I've seen tier 1 matches where there was no one with +300 match score, and damage numbers were all similar. This happens when everything is killed with accurate CT shots. Plenty of others with one or two players that are higher, and the rest in the 200s . Compare that to some of the farm fests posted in these kinds of threads, where damage and MS averages are much higher- that is the source of your confusion.

[Ihlrath]

PSR is generally not a quantification of how good a pilot you are but rather how much damage you manage to crank out. Doing other things such as as scouting, harrassing, spotting, etc all do not count in PSR and I've found that a skilled light pilot causing havoc or spotting/calling out enemy movements will almost always lead to a victory or at least a competitive match.

Meanwhile they don't get a huge match score because the algorithm could give a doo doo less about anything other than damage.

In short, don't let PSR determine you having fun or not. It's garbage.

Welcome to Match Maker, where Tier doesn't matter and the PSR formula is made up.

Edited by Ihlrath, 16 July 2022 - 03:54 PM.

[Bassault]

If you look at the team data, you didn't do that much damage compared to the rest of your team. Actually, 500 dmg is not really not that much anyway. You got a down arrow because you didn't do enough. When you do better, your PSR will go up.