182 replies to this topic

[Maddermax]

caravann said:

1661095817[/url]' post='6469561']
It really isn't. Look for yourself = Light active probe 90 meters

caravann said:

1661095817[/url]' post='6469561']
It really isn't. Look for yourself = Light active probe 90 meters

Your post mentioned BAP.

BAP =/= LAP.

I honestly don’t care one way or the other about the point being made, I just didn’t want anyone reading the thread to mistake that for factual information, because it’s so hard to find the actual range, though last I tested it, BAP could cancel one ECM at something like 240m.

Edited by Maddermax, 21 August 2022 - 07:55 AM.

[Saved By The Bell]

caravann, on 21 August 2022 - 04:36 AM, said:

Do you realize that the range for BAP is 90 meters .
You can't fire LRM at 90 meters.

I use BAP for fast lock, etc, not for ECM fighting in close range.

Edited by Saved By The Bell, 21 August 2022 - 11:40 AM.

[caravann]

Maddermax, on 21 August 2022 - 07:53 AM, said:

Your post mentioned BAP.

BAP =/= LAP.

I honestly don’t care one way or the other about the point being made, I just didn’t want anyone reading the thread to mistake that for factual information, because it’s so hard to find the actual range, though last I tested it, BAP could cancel one ECM at something like 240m.

No. You just want it to be something it's not and when I caught you not having the right information you're making up an excuse that it's not factual for an active probe to be an active probe. Because for what I know you thought that active probe made mechs visual from max range.

[ScrapIron Prime]

Let’s cut the misinformation, please. Read up on probes, tag, narcs, and ECM here, including their bugged values and effects:

https://mwo.nav-alph...rmation-warfare

[Aidan Crenshaw]

There's plenty of misinformation in here:

caravann, on 21 August 2022 - 04:36 AM, said:

Do you realize that the range for BAP is 90 meters .
You can't fire LRM at 90 meters.

This is the (incorrect) range of the BAP for detecting shutdown mechs. ECM counter happens up to 240m.

Saved By The Bell, on 20 August 2022 - 12:45 AM, said:

"Beagle active probe counters ECM"

No.

You still cant get a lock in many cases, as Raven guy wrote above.

All my Lrm mechs equipped properly with BAP, TARG COMP, skills, etc. But I felt changes at once after tree changes.

And now we have swarm of lights and mediums with snubs in every fight, though they should be lurmed, lol.

Any Active Probe can only counter the the closest ECM and only one at a time.
People really need to stop installing Targeting Computers to enhance their lock-on weapons - they do almost nothing for them.

Saved By The Bell, on 21 August 2022 - 07:54 AM, said:

I use BAP for fast lock, etc, not for ECM fighting in close range.

Active Probes do not enhance lock-on times for missiles. (although they increase sensor range and thus may slightly reduce IDF lock-on time, but very minorly)

I know ScrapironPrime already posted it, but I want to re-iterate because people still fall for these a half decade old misconceptions.
Use this WIki, people!
https://mwo.nav-alph...rmation-warfare

Edited by Aidan Crenshaw, 21 August 2022 - 10:19 PM.

[PocketYoda]

I remember Lrmeggedon.. i don't really want that back sorry..

[SirNotlag]

Nomad Tech, on 22 August 2022 - 05:43 PM, said:

I remember Lrmeggedon.. i don't really want that back sorry..

I really dont think 0.35 seconds of lock time will be enough to bring that back, cause at 90% radar derp thats all youd get with max target delay nodes.

[Curccu]

Nomad Tech, on 22 August 2022 - 05:43 PM, said:

I remember Lrmeggedon.. i don't really want that back sorry..

SirNotlag, on 23 August 2022 - 02:04 AM, said:

I really dont think 0.35 seconds of lock time will be enough to bring that back, cause at 90% radar derp thats all youd get with max target delay nodes.

Yep Lurmageddons were about changing missile flight angle (flying like Javelins) flying over almost all covers and also headshotting mechs because of that other lurmageddon was because of missile splash damage which melted atlas in few salvos, etc other changes of missile mechanics not fraction of seconds lockdown time.

If I remember correctly there has been 3 or 4 Lurmageddons in MWO history and those changes that created situation were rolled back very fast.

[VeeOt Dragon]

honestly i agree with the OP, decrease the value for the RaDerp nodes so that only mechs with the largest RaDerp quirk can get 100%. this is also the least time and work consuming thing that could be done to help balance things a bit.


as for other balancing things someone mentioned that in the beta (before my time) weapons had a convergence timer. i would love to see this. hell make it so that only arm mounted weapons can converge and torso weapons just fire direct forward of their weapon locations. that would go a LONG way to dealing with the massive pinpoint damage meta we have right now. (though it would also make light mechs even harder to hit than they already are with i unlikely that even the biggest alpha would delete one in a single alpha)

for those that are LRM haters if you don't like getting hit by them sacrifice a bit of alpha and carry an AMS unit (if possible as some mechs don't have an AMS slot) otherwise just shut up as i am sick and tired of your ******** over the years. hell one Corsair-7A and maybe one two other mechs with a single AMS each can completely shut down even one of those LRM 100 assault builds. not only that but shooting down missiles does give you credit in match score and C-bill rewards.

i honestly don't have any dislike of any weapon system in the game. there are those that i like more than others but none that i hate. all hell they add variate and diversity to the game. now there are certain mechs in the game that are cancerous (i'm looking at you Piranha) but that can be fixed with quirk balancing (the Piranha should have its stripped and reworked to balance that mech and fix the dam hit reg on it)

as for the New player experience well i don't know how to fix that cluster ****. the tutorial needs to be improved for one and maybe give new players 4 free mech bays at the start at least (this would give them room to at least one mech of each weight class) before they have to start looking at MC or spending real cash. its been so many years since i first started playing that i don't remember what you start with right out the gate. maybe even give them their choice of one free C-bill mech or even have a list of mechs they can chose from (say by looking at the lore and selecting a list of mechs that were often given to green pilots (the Blackjack would definitely be on that list and it isn't a half bad mech)). the tutorial needs to explain things like ghost heat and other background info.

[martian]

VeeOt Dragon, on 23 August 2022 - 06:40 AM, said:

for those that are LRM haters if you don't like getting hit by them sacrifice a bit of alpha and carry an AMS unit (if possible as some mechs don't have an AMS slot) otherwise just shut up as i am sick and tired of your ******** over the years. hell one Corsair-7A and maybe one two other mechs with a single AMS each can completely shut down even one of those LRM 100 assault builds.

I think that the only 'Mech that can not carry AMS is CDA-X5 Cicada. I believe that all other 'Mechs can be equipped with AMS if their owner wishes so.

VeeOt Dragon, on 23 August 2022 - 06:40 AM, said:

not only that but shooting down missiles does give you credit in match score and C-bill rewards.

A few weeks ago somebody told me that AMS no longer contributes to Match Score (only boosts C-Bill earnings), but I am not sure in what Patch Notes you can find info about it.

VeeOt Dragon, on 23 August 2022 - 06:40 AM, said:

as for the New player experience well i don't know how to fix that cluster ****. the tutorial needs to be improved for one
...
the tutorial needs to explain things like ghost heat and other background info.

PGI said that it will stay "as is". Sorry.

VeeOt Dragon, on 23 August 2022 - 06:40 AM, said:

and maybe give new players 4 free mech bays at the start at least (this would give them room to at least one mech of each weight class) before they have to start looking at MC or spending real cash. its been so many years since i first started playing that i don't remember what you start with right out the gate. maybe even give them their choice of one free C-bill mech or even have a list of mechs they can chose from (say by looking at the lore and selecting a list of mechs that were often given to green pilots (the Blackjack would definitely be on that list and it isn't a half bad mech)).

The Cadet bonus is some 20-25 million C-Bills or so - quite sufficient for buying even assault 'Mech such as Daishi or Masakari.

[caravann]

When 5 mechs have AMS them cover 20 missiles. This means a Corsair is able to protect itself from one missile boat but only if it has a supporting mech next to it. Having extra LRM on the same mech doesn't count since it counters all missiles from all LRM hardpoint from one mech. If let's say 5 LRM boats fire at the corsair it's struck by 100 missiles at the same time. You fire LRM20's and think that 5 LRM20's = 100 tubes but the AMS shoots down 4 out of 5 missiles and then the supporting mech shoots down the remaining 1 of 5 missiles. But if 2 mechs fire at the corsair it only gun down 4 out of 10 and with supporting mech 5 out of 10. Which means with help of an extra LRM boat the damage has increased by 150% This is why nobody, not even a Corsair should walk alone without another mech. This is why groups protects the team because a group of 5 mechs carrying 5 AMS is going to disable LRM.
Once the team is reduced from 12 to 8 and only a 3rd carry AMS their combined coverage is 4 which means only occasions where we see many mechs with multiple AMS are LRM boats able to be disabled and only because the team has a single LRM boat.

[Tarteso]

D A T A, on 21 August 2022 - 07:26 AM, said:

No, promoting hiding in a hole and firing with an aimbot at a lock that you see on a wall is the very last thing this game needs.

LRM boats doing that are food for lights. Using LRMs was hard enough before, but to see this new thing in perspective, it is the equivalent for a sniper/brawler to "my aim is pure **** " to " I cannot aim at all", dependeing on the target`s skill % (and ECM), and it cannot be improved. As it is, currently, radar depr is the most OP thing ever in this game.

Be carefull deciding what this game needs, because it seems from long ago that some people are turning intentionally this game in a niche within a niche, to please their own gaming styles maybe, which means that more people may quit rather than attract new players.

caravann, on 21 August 2022 - 07:42 AM, said:

That's what they're doing, you can't counter fire because LRM boats uses ECM + deprivation while firing from a hidden location.

LRM boats are now immune to counter fire because they have ECM + Deprivation which means ECM is working in favor of LRM boats.
The other team is ruined because they only got one ECM mech on their team.

LOL?

Edited by Tarteso, 23 August 2022 - 09:26 AM.

[ScrapIron Prime]

martian, on 23 August 2022 - 08:58 AM, said:

I think that the only 'Mech that can not carry AMS is CDA-X5 Cicada. I believe that all other 'Mechs can be equipped with AMS if their owner wishes so.

Correct, sir. Though for clan mechs, you often have to choose an omni-pod that is less than optimal for the stuff you want in your build.

martian, on 23 August 2022 - 08:58 AM, said:

A few weeks ago somebody told me that AMS no longer contributes to Match Score (only boosts C-Bill earnings), but I am not sure in what Patch Notes you can find info about it.

Its not in the patch notes (searching patch notes back to April 2021 on "PSR" and "AMS"). Don't know where they announced it, but it did happen.

[martian]

ScrapIron Prime, on 23 August 2022 - 09:27 AM, said:

Correct, sir. Though for clan mechs, you often have to choose an omni-pod that is less than optimal for the stuff you want in your build.

I guess that it is a matter of priorities, i.e. how much they really want that AMS on their 'Mech.

[Urbie Connoisseur]

Personally, I feel the best change would just be for fired missiles not to lose their lock when you do, instead of just giving up, and no other changes. Missiles losing lock mid-air just plain doesn't make sense to me, even moreso if the missile itself has LoS.

[caravann]

Marida Connoisseur, on 23 August 2022 - 02:43 PM, said:

Personally, I feel the best change would just be for fired missiles not to lose their lock when you do, instead of just giving up, and no other changes. Missiles losing lock mid-air just plain doesn't make sense to me, even moreso if the missile itself has LoS.

Perhaps it doesn't make sense for the human. The computer being blocked by spam from the ECM.

TAG guided systems are able to be hacked by signals feeding wrong information.

A consistent lock would mean that there's no way to escape. The missiles themselves are cheap and has no tracking device.
Air to air missiles and expensive missiles have computers who print the target. The missiles used in mwo are just enough, good enough and barely able to obtain its goal. That's why LRM has such short range distance.

Still this would change based on TAG and NARC even if in nature both aren't working against ECM need to be changed for game mechanic. Deprivation shouldn't be changed because it's one of the YES or NO mechanics who either has no effect or a good effect.

NARC simply need the ECM counter removed.

[Strelok7]

SHOULD RADAR DEPRIVATION BE SLIGHTLY REDUCED - short answer - no

[chaosshade2638]

From the standpoint of NOT wanting to get utterly decimated by a LRM-heavy team, no, it should not.

From the standpoint of being a LRM boat, yes, it should because it makes getting locks annoying.

NARCs need a nerf if you ask me, they last WAY too long.

[JC Daxion]

The problem is with radar dep is it can hit 100%. It really needs to have a cap before that point so target decay also can do it's job of keeping someone on lock that only blinks out of site for a split second.. like a light running that goes over a hill and a split second later is back in site and yet you totally lost the lock for the fraction of a second.

I think a hard cap at 90-95 would be a good thing. It would still be a strong skill, but it would remove the OP qualities of it. As it is LRM's are situational at best, and a good shot with a PPC or ballistic is always going to be better.

I think this minor change to hard cap would really help the players that actively move while trying to use lock on weapons. Streaks is another that this would help.. chasing a light that flashes around a corner and you have to re-acquire the lock again.

at 100% it almost feels like a cheat, dialing it back just a bit would really get this skill in the right spot.

[sosegado]

JC Daxion, on 26 August 2022 - 12:02 PM, said:

The problem is with radar dep is it can hit 100%.

imho that's the beauty of it.
If I can haul my dire wolf's butt out of sight the last thing the enemy deserves is to have their LRM's chase me into the safe zone. Sorry, I ran the race and won! No more volleys for you!

JC Daxion, on 26 August 2022 - 12:02 PM, said:

at 100% it almost feels like a cheat, dialing it back just a bit would really get this skill in the right spot.

If you think it should be nerfed than maybe it should have a maximum per weight class?

Lights=85% max
Mediums=90% max
Heavy=95% max
Assault=100% max

Lower weight mechs just can't carry the same amount of equipment necessary to max it out. How's that for the explanation why?

Edited by Stab Wound, 26 August 2022 - 11:39 PM.