344 replies to this topic

[BiteyFerret]

I am okay with certain maps favoring certain types of loadouts, it keeps things fresh, however too many maps feel like they were designed to -only- be viable with some systems and offer no means of playing around that handicap. This is mainly a problem with long range maps, where short range builds have the option of a) walking into the open and get slowly killed by blue lasers and LRMs while being unable to do anything about it or b ) not participate in the fight. Don't even get me started on soft cover like hills that LRMs arc over. Thanks, I hate it.

I feel every map should have enough *small, hard cover that makes it possible to assault an undefended sniper spot (artillery should never be safe when alone. You're playing a long range, unpunishable build, you should require active defense to be kept safe), where you don't die to a single mech just because the only point of approach is a slow plod towards them in the open. There needs to be a downside to playing a long range build beyond "it's kind of boring".

* by small I mean cover where you can reasonably move from cover to cover. In theory Solaris City has lots of cover, however because that cover is The World's Biggest Buildings and it takes most mechs 30 seconds to walk from one side of cover to the other it makes actually playing it tactically (changing cover, moving around to flank, etc) impractical, because you need to fully commit into that move and are likely too slow and dead if the opposing team spots you mid move. The 12v12 matches already make being out of position punishing enough without also adding "and now your cover has turned into a gauntlet where you're shot in the back for +15s" to the mix

Edited by BiteyFerret, 03 August 2023 - 12:43 AM.

[CwStrife]

F i s s i o n, on 02 August 2023 - 07:47 PM, said:

There's been talk and promises made (since at least January to my knowledge) regarding increasing the dom circle time with faction play and other drop deck variants from 1.5 mins to 2.5-3 mins - this allows more opportunity for come backs and making it back in the circle without the game ending too early, while you can still win based on the timer if it's a close game. Please make this happen in the next patch

I really hope they put faction play style drop decks on the quick play maps/game modes. If anything they should just remake Faction Play into that mode, it would probably get a ton of attention then.... the objectives and all that bs never really worked out.

[MelchiTzedeK]

All maps have its advantages and disadvantages. We can chat all days about them all, but what makes a good map and good game mode is the abilities to add strategic plays... which means by adding bot turrets, tanks, bombing runs, elemental suit after eject from the mech... etc, etc, etc... By adding new elements to the game creates an excitement and new ideas in battle. For quick play there should be at least 2 drops on mechs. The winning team should be won by the amount of damage done and timeout, or destroying strategic primary and secondary objectives. Very similar to Faction, but more intense play with bot turrets, tank, bombing runs etc, etc... Create a game mode is all out war with more battle technique in mind. Quick play is okay, but there has to be more to it than just killing each other off one by one... it gets old pretty quick. The game mode need something different like capture the flag... like in the old days of mw3, mw4.... it's more fun running around with a flag and some someone is trying to shoot you down. There is nothing wrong with having Elemental suit after ejection and trying to stay alive. Just a thought.. and perhaps the future of mech war will some how make it more interesting. If I have a good game engine.. there are so many possibilities... Hopefully the future of Mech War will give something more interesting. Thank you all. See you in the Battlefield.

[__PLASMA__]

I think we
need a kind of drop decks for QP which can only be earned in FP and then have the effect that you can create your decks as e.g. brawling deck or long range deck or light mech deck and select them before the QP (like in the EQ) and select them then be available as mechs to make it more interesting I think the map vote should be dropped. then the people would have the possibility to at least adapt the mechs to a map and situation.

I have in mind to somehow make the game modes (FP/EQ/QP) much more dependent on each other, maybe that will help?

maybe it's just an idea that you might try in the EQ? the most important thing is that people don't get too serious about changes and please don't forget to have fun first.

for competitions there is compplay

with kind regards

__PLASMA__

[C337Skymaster]

Gagis, on 02 August 2023 - 02:43 AM, said:

I'm a bit surprised by how popular Skirmish is compared to other game modes. It is the one mode that provides no incentive to fight and potentially lets stalemates happen.

Skirmish is the one mode where all you have to do is fight, and you can't be defeated by someone paying attention to the actual mission objective and sneaking around the fight to steal away your overwhelming victory while you bludgeon your hapless opponents. Assault has mixed feelings because on the one hand: it mostly plays like Skirmish, but with an alternative to hunting down that stealth light 'mech that's been kiting all match, but that stealth light 'mech can also steal the match if he's paying attention and you're not.

Nobody seems to like the two modes where you actually have to employ strategy and tactics, which is odd (and very disappointing) given this franchise is all about strategy and tactics.

[C337Skymaster]

CwStrife, on 03 August 2023 - 01:21 AM, said:

I really hope they put faction play style drop decks on the quick play maps/game modes. If anything they should just remake Faction Play into that mode, it would probably get a ton of attention then.... the objectives and all that bs never really worked out.

Go play Faction a few times. Particularly, go play against a coordinated opposing team. Then go play a few QP matches where you get stomped, 12-2, or 12-0. Now consider you got stomped 12-0, and you've got three more waves of 'mechs you have to fight those same opponents with, before you can be released to go to another game. This is why Faction Play died the way it did: you get a group of Pugs who just want to play the mode and have fun, and they get matched against a team that's there to win as hard as possible, and the end-of-match kill ratio is something like 18-48, and 6 of the 18 were ejections because they ran out of ammo.

QP lived while other modes died because of exactly that scenario, which is why it's a very bad idea to bring that scenario to QP.

[sycocys]

In my opinion the 2 biggest problems is that most of the maps are too small - most were/are too small when designed with 8v8 in mind and then 12v12 got jammed onto them.

The second and equally big problem is that ALL off the drop/spawn points are bad. Some of them are bad combined with the maps being way, way too small for 12v12 like mining collective.

The drop points should be designed to push the game away from deathball and into lance v lance. Especially for modes like conquest and incursion - changing the drop points could actually give these modes an identity.

Incursion you should not be spawning at the back of your base all in a ball, move the drop points forward to at least the gates if not outside and spread them out.

Conquest should 100% be 3 lances dropped to compete for 3 points to start out the match.

---
Individual maps -
Alpine is still ****. The map combined with the bad drop points have never made this map any good. Its a huge map with play designed against using 80% of it and the one spot that you are pushed to utilize is massively unbalanced for one team.

Mining is way too small (of course the other classic maps as well), really needs to be expanded on the outside. With caves?
Solaris is a find your way out Denny's placemat maze.

New Forest needs that mountain range that cuts off the FOREST deleted.

The bigger maps just get super boring because the drop pointes are so bad and encourage deathball.

[nopempele]

Several points I'd like to raise.

The maps.

The Canyon Network is generally great, except for the Assault modes where drop points are hugely imbalanced. One team gains a huge advantage by moving left and taking an unassailable position from which it could safely snipe the other team.

Alpine is just killing fields for campers to exploit, any other mechs have no roles there. Extremely boring and annoying. I wonder if moving spawn points could improve that a bit?

Solaris City is OK for all but LRM boats, which are completely useless there.

Caustic Valley used to be fun, the new version is not. It is so bland I cannot really remember anything about it.

Basically all the "new" versions of the maps (Forest Colony, Frozen City, HPG Manifold, Terra Therma) are somehow worse and less fun to play than their original versions. Like both new Forest Colony and Frozen City have lost their indicative tunnel feature, new HPG Manifold has now camper walls all around it, and the new Terra Therma is a nascar around the central location rather than a stand-off the original version used to be. And bigger does not mean better.

And the greatest, most fun and versatile map after all these years is still the old Tourmaline Desert. Please don't ruin it.

The modes

Of all the modes I think Incursion feels underwhelming currently. It is almost impossible to win by destroying the base so one might not bother with anything other than killing mechs. Which makes it a more prolonged (and thus more boring) Skirmish due to how spawn points are farther. Maybe re-think it as a Conquest spin-off rather than an Assault one? What I mean is that instead of two opposing bases you would have more smaller ones scattered across the map that you can capture (they start as neutral). Those bases when captured could give you some extra advantages (like those temporary ECM/Radar and maybe something else like extra strikes or coolshot replenishment).

[avenger cannon]

Incursion is like the better version of Assault.

[LGBTQIAplus Ally]

It was hard for me to pick my least favorite large map because I don't like many of them, and it was hard to pick my favorite medium and small maps because I like most of them. Hard to keep a team together in large maps with a direwhale going 1/3 the speed of lights.

[McLaine]

I'm no fan of Incursion.

I do think the Radar Jammer, Radar, and Strike boosting instalations would be cool added to flags on conquest tho, such that control of the flag gives you control of the instalation.

Likely too much coding tho.

Edited by McLaine, 03 August 2023 - 07:28 AM.

[Kroont]

Bring back the ESCORT mode....
( uuuuuh, but that is not fair....., YES RIGHT , WAR IS NEVER FAIR !! )

[MrMadguy]

Why don't you analyze ingame voting?

Problems are exactly the same, as they've always been.

Maps. You make PVP game, not PVE. Gameplay >> environment diversity. Your game has certain game mechanics. Don't forget about them. Cover is essential. Effective range is essential. Routing is essential. Just don't make maps, where half of 'Mechs are useless dummy targets. Don't make Meta maps, that cater to certain builds (Lights for example). Another thing - is waste of time. We play 'MechWarrior Online, not WalkWarrior Online. It shouldn't take 30-50% of match time just to see other team for the first time. We all understand, that for online game developers it's more profitable to waste more time for lesser reward. But for us it's opposite. That's why big maps are almost useless.

Modes. Don't try to fix, what isn't broken. Players prefer to kill other players. This game is about it. It's PVP game. Period. What game modes should try to achieve - to create some points of interest in different parts of map. Also to prevent players from griefing. That's why it's better to finally add engage timer to Skirmish. Objectives should make sure, that team can win match, if other team's player(s) are wasting time, hiding, trying to use starvation tactic or perform some other non-sportive actions. What modes shouldn't do - turn game into ObjectiveWarrior Online.

Edited by MrMadguy, 03 August 2023 - 08:14 AM.

[Manboobs-sama]

Of all the problems on all the maps the one thing that frustrates me the most is the hitboxes for the assets on Tourmaline. Have blasted thousands and thousands of damage that should have gone into a mech into invisible walls. The rocks, the debris, it's just so frustrating. I would trade all the new maps made in the last 2 years to have a Tourmaline that actually works like it should. If I can see a mech, I should be able to shoot it. And now that these same assets are being used in Ceres Metal Scrapyard, I have already experienced several instances of egregious hitbox mishaps.

Definitely should be something to look into if it's something that's possible to fix.

[CwStrife]

C337Skymaster, on 03 August 2023 - 03:53 AM, said:

Go play Faction a few times. Particularly, go play against a coordinated opposing team. Then go play a few QP matches where you get stomped, 12-2, or 12-0. Now consider you got stomped 12-0, and you've got three more waves of 'mechs you have to fight those same opponents with, before you can be released to go to another game. This is why Faction Play died the way it did: you get a group of Pugs who just want to play the mode and have fun, and they get matched against a team that's there to win as hard as possible, and the end-of-match kill ratio is something like 18-48, and 6 of the 18 were ejections because they ran out of ammo.

QP lived while other modes died because of exactly that scenario, which is why it's a very bad idea to bring that scenario to QP.

So you either get stomped one time or 4 times in a match if you were to make a Faction mode type Quick play.... Whats the difference than what already happens?

I played FP exclusively for quite a while, and the unit I was with wasn't bad, but overall, the objectives and everything that needed to be achieved with FP made the mode die, they could try and spruce it up just doing QP maps with a drop deck selection, this way once you die you're not out of the action. And what about all the matches where the game is 12-10 and if the team had another drop it might change the outcome? I think it would.

It's better for PGI to try something than to leave faction play as a completely dead mode that not a soul plays. FYI I doubt you could even get a FP drop at this point unless there is an event, the queue is beyond dead and has been, it's never going to come back in it's current form.

[Deadboy57]

Please remove the mushroom kingdom from FWC. Two many matches spent trying to get one light down the top of one of them. Put in a couple of decent looking terrain features for some cover instead.

[Lunatic_Asylum]

All of the maps need an increase in temperature (or a decrease in air thermal conductivity). Players should work on heat management more.
Some of the maps have spots that are not well-suited for an STD100 Stalker (19.1 kmph), which cannot even walk over slight ramps.

Edited by Lunatic_Asylum, 03 August 2023 - 11:21 AM.

[MercJ]

Incursion needs to be removed or made a faction play specific mode (with drop decks). It's pointless in Quick Play. Just take it out.

Domination could be adjusted on certain maps. Conquest is the most balanced for all mechs and play styles, imo. Everything is skirmish anyway, at least Conquest avoids the one last mech hiding for the whole match. Assault is pointless as well (especially depending on the map). Remove Assault, make it Incursion (only in Faction play - even though Faction play should JUST be siege maps, but anyway...)

MWO needs to decide what kind of game it is. The big "simulation" maps don't really have a place with how the matches currently play out. Since it's based on earning C-bills, the smaller maps with more action are always going to feel better. Making players spend five minutes walking to the same spots time after time is terrible for gameplay - just drop them closer.

[Grey Hook]

Thank you PGI for launching this poll and attempting to discern what the player base is thinking. With so many differing opinions- many of them communicated as though they were objective facts- I strongly suspect that ANY action you take will generate more complaints. I don't envy you.
As you requested that we add our reasoning in the comments, I will add mine here. Apologies in advance for the long text:

Maps:
The main thing I struggle with on the maps I dislike is poor visibility. I find maps like Solaris City, Caustic Valley, the snowstorm version of Frozen City, every version of Terra Therma, and the new scrapyard map to be too dark or foggy to be fun. I know, the mechs have night vison and heat vision, but both have pretty severe compromises that make the game less enjoyable to me.
The new Ceres Metal Scrapyard map seems like a cool layout with a lot of visual interest, but I wish we could see it. A daytime version of it was featured as the backdrop in many of the posted pictures of the new assault mechs and it looked amazing- but in game the visual details and textures might as well not be there, which is kinda sad for the designer.

Modes:
I have two small gripes regarding modes. First, Incursion mode offers one more example of a complicated in-game system that is not explained anywhere in the game or its website. Players have to try to piece it together themselves, so there are always teammates that honestly do not know what the additional symbols littering their HUD are or how to prioritize their multiple objectives. I like the idea of there being more than one way to win a match. I don’t like the frustration – felt by both the experienced toward the new player, and by the new player themselves- of not understanding what those ways are.
My second gripe relates to the first- that is, that in Skirmish mode- the one mode with no secondary objectives- it is exceedingly frustrating to play or watch as the last remaining mech goes and hides without penalty while the others have to wander around looking for it. I’m not sure the best way to remedy this. I understand that some players value their k/d ratio above all else and WILL do this, regardless of the feedback they receive. But I suspect that even those players who hide do not enjoy being on the other side of a game that ends that way.

Maps, Modes, and Mechs:
The final issue I have with the maps- and the modes- is the fact that one must select their mech without any idea of the mission they are going on. This is jarringly unrealistic, even within the fictional setting. Humans don’t act like this. Even "way back in the 21rst century" we understand that one shouldn’t bring a knife to a gun fight. Why then would anyone choose to bring an expensive LRM platform to fight in Solaris City, or an expensive brawling mech to hike up Alpine Peaks, or a slow moving assault mech on a mission that depends on quickly capturing multiple resource points? If the game presents players as mechwarriors who own multiple mechs, what possible reason are we given for the “blind date” method of choosing mech first, then map/mode? The complaints from players who end up feeling like they brought the wrong mech for the mission seem very common, which feels ridiculous and frustrating.
I’m not a programmer so I acknowledge that my simple-sounding suggestion may, in fact, be incredibly difficult to implement, but: Couldn’t the order simply be reversed? Something like this:
1) Player selects which weight class they would like to play in that round, for matchmaking purposes.
2) Player votes for the map/mode they like from the preselected options.
3) Once the map and mode are announced, Player selects which of their mechs (from their stated weight class) they want to drop in.

Again, I truly appreciate all the work the PGI team continues to put into an older, free-to-play game that a lot of people really enjoy playing. I hope this survey gives you some clear insight into ways to continue improving things. Keep up the great work.

[PublicWifi]

Lunatic_Asylum, on 03 August 2023 - 11:18 AM, said:

Some of the maps have spots that are not well-suited for an STD100 Stalker (19.1 kmph), which cannot even walk over slight ramps.

LOL

You want a handicapped accessible map?