325 replies to this topic

[C337Skymaster]

KursedVixen, on 27 August 2023 - 06:01 AM, said:

It would really be limited for clans due to how widespread development of each weapon is not to mention mechs.... for example you'd be limited to the dire timber fenris and no light for clan Wolf...

So you wouldn't be limited to those if you played Wolf, but you'd have an easier time getting access to them, because they're locally manufactured. For example, the Nova was fairly evenly distributed amongst the Clans, but ever so slightly more common in Wolf than the others. Certain things, though, like the -S variants of the Timber and Dire Wolf, were both Clan Wolf creations to address urban combat against the Inner Sphere during the invasion.

Other 'mechs, though, like the Night Gyr, Black Lanner, and Cougar, were unique to Clan Jade Falcon, and would only be found there. Kodiak would be unique to Ghost Bear, as would the Stormcrow-C variant, Warhawk and Ebon Jaguar would be unique to Smoke Jaguar, etc.

But at least the prime variants of things like the Gargoyle, Hellbringer, Mad Dog, Stormcrow, Nova, Adder, Kit Fox, Mist Lynx, would be available across the board without restriction (and probably more, besides).

[smokefield]

Quote

No group harmed FP as that's what it was made for

i beg to differ .. builds were nerfed because of groups in FP.

the problem is that FP does not offer what it should offer. anyone remembers NBT ? that is what FP should be, but it is too much to ask from current devs, so what they did - just another mod, another variation of QP with different objectives...

Edited by smokefield, 27 August 2023 - 07:47 AM.

[KursedVixen]

and nobody noticed a couple patches ago they made AMS worthless now you get no reward for shooting down missiles.

[martian]

KursedVixen, on 27 August 2023 - 07:56 AM, said:

and nobody noticed a couple patches ago they made AMS worthless now you get no reward for shooting down missiles.

You are wrong: You have not noticed. Some other players noticed.

Also, even though destroyed missiles no longer count towards your match score, AMS still protects your 'Mech. Specifically, Clan AMS weighs just ¹/₂ ton and needs just ¹/₂ ammo. All in all, just one ton total.

[KursedVixen]

martian, on 27 August 2023 - 08:33 AM, said:

You are wrong: You have not noticed. Some other players noticed.

Also, even though destroyed missiles no longer count towards your match score, AMS still protects your 'Mech. Specifically, Clan AMS weighs just ¹/₂ ton and needs just ¹/₂ ammo. All in all, just one ton total.

fine next time i won't try to bring something to attention that severly effected the game... I'll remember that.

[martian]

KursedVixen, on 27 August 2023 - 08:41 AM, said:

fine next time i won't try to bring something to attention that severly effected the game... I'll remember that.

LOL

The next time do not say "nobody noticed", but "I have not noticed".

Of course, anybody - you included - is free to equip AMS any time he wishes. AMS still serves its purpose of destroying enemy missiles, it still needs the same tonnage, etc. So what "worthless AMS" are you talking about?

And that it no longer counts towards the match score and PSR? I can not see a problem here: AMS works automatically and does not require pilot's input. Thus, there is no reason why destroyed missiles should be counted towards the pilot skill rating.

PGI talked about earning C-Bills for destroyed missiles, but I have never cared about it, so I do not know if such change has been actually implemented.

[Knownswift]

KursedVixen, on 27 August 2023 - 07:56 AM, said:

and nobody noticed a couple patches ago they made AMS worthless now you get no reward for shooting down missiles.

This was actually a much needed and really good change.

AMS score inflation can easily push someone up in tier without an associated skill check. This is bad. Your average Tier 5 pilot that loves the corsair doesn't need to get moved up for a passive counter. Thats ridic.

AFAIK, you still get a cbill bonus.

[KursedVixen]

Knownswift, on 27 August 2023 - 10:55 AM, said:

This was actually a much needed and really good change.

AMS score inflation can easily push someone up in tier without an associated skill check. This is bad. Your average Tier 5 pilot that loves the corsair doesn't need to get moved up for a passive counter. Thats ridic.

AFAIK, you still get a cbill bonus.

then they should learn that they no longer need AMS in the higher tiers.... but this really does not incetivise teamwork of sharing the AMS.

[Mc Wolf]

just what we need... more alpha capacity (joking)
just wait until somebody makes some 140-150 alpha, 0 ghost heat builds with them.

[KursedVixen]

Mc Wolf, on 27 August 2023 - 10:53 PM, said:

just what we need... more alpha capacity (joking)
just wait until somebody makes some 140-150 alpha, 0 ghost heat builds with them.

which gun you talking about even the hag 40 can only do 80 max. you can only fire 2 at a time being gauss. even the gauszzilla cary 4 30's can only do 60 per shot.

Edited by KursedVixen, 27 August 2023 - 11:31 PM.

[C337Skymaster]

KursedVixen, on 27 August 2023 - 11:30 PM, said:

which gun you talking about even the hag 40 can only do 80 max. you can only fire 2 at a time being gauss. even the gauszzilla cary 4 30's can only do 60 per shot.

Sure, so you strap on a pair of HAG 40's, a pair of HLL's, and a sextet of ERML's. At current damage output that's what?
40x2
18x2
6x6
Which comes out to 80+36+36 = 152.

Now, the catch to this theoretical maximum is that you'll have almost no crit space for ammo or heat sinks, and it'll shut you down from heat in one shot. Example below:


And this is how weapons fire in this game has always been balanced, and always will be balanced: Okay, you "can" equip stupid amounts of damage dealing death, but the heat generated by all that is going to prevent you from shooting it all at once. Which is why a lot of people complain about Gauss Rifles being "broken", and why PGI inflated the heat on the HAGs, is because Gauss Rifles don't adhere to this balance, and fly directly in the face of it.

[JumpingHunter]

martian, on 25 August 2023 - 11:24 PM, said:

PGI offers appropriate faction livery patterns for IS and Clan 'Mechs. It also offers appropriate faction colours. It also offers appropriate faction insignia.

Specifically this statement is not true. The way how we got camo patterns and colors handled in MWO now is very, VERY bad. Silly "haha look im colored like a sherman tank or snowfall" patterns are by far too specific and look too out of place to be used seriously. The faction patterns are better, but only 2 of them are looking decently and not silly - davion and steiner, while liao and kurita being just "look i am a dragon liker" or "look im green like liao logo" patterns, with marik one being in between them, not really good but not TOO silly.

As for colors, cryengine's way to handle colors is not the best, for some reason all darker colors mostly just becomre transparent, ESPECIALLY on decals, some decals literally are almost invisible when colored in black or generally darker colors.

And as for decals, game has very few good-looking decals for actual regiments from BT lore, mostly the decals are general things bullet or grenades images, smily faces, general shapes or promotional art, like new year things. The decal applying tool is also very uncomfortable to use, and if you want to rotate the decal you can't choose angular speed of rotation, you can't just flip decal for 90 degrees or 180 - you can only mirror it, plus decals look VERY our of place on mechs, they get self-illuminated in darker areas, they glow on the sun likght like they are made of chemically-illuminated material, they don't match mech's scratched camo patter and texture, And they shake when mech is walking (like, they aren't glued to one place sometimes, they are SLIDING up and down on some mechs). And you only get 9 of them, sometimes it's not enough.

I agree with your on your other thesises, but regarding customisation MWO doesn't do very well, partially thanks to cryengine being old and sick engine, partially because the cursomisation wasn't really expanded at all, aside from getting decals from 6 to nine per mech.

I would love to see more general camo pattenrs, like half-checkered and half-solid colored pattern, or even better, ability to chose individual camo pattern for each component of a mech, THAT would be very cool. I would love to see more metallic camos, like rusted/scratched, generic steel-looking (like some clan omnimechs default camo) and etc. I would love to see camo patterns for some minor factions, like Taurian Concordat, Magistracy of Canopus, or AT LEAST the goddamn Clan Nova Cat or Steel Viper that are already in faction play. And unlike all other changes, these additions to game will ACTUALLY directly bring PGI money, so i dont see why they don't expand customisation of MWO...

Edited by JumpingHunter, 28 August 2023 - 04:14 AM.

[KursedVixen]

C337Skymaster, on 28 August 2023 - 01:09 AM, said:

Sure, so you strap on a pair of HAG 40's, a pair of HLL's, and a sextet of ERML's. At current damage output that's what?
40x2
18x2
6x6
Which comes out to 80+36+36 = 152.

Now, the catch to this theoretical maximum is that you'll have almost no crit space for ammo or heat sinks, and it'll shut you down from heat in one shot. Example below:


And this is how weapons fire in this game has always been balanced, and always will be balanced: Okay, you "can" equip stupid amounts of damage dealing death, but the heat generated by all that is going to prevent you from shooting it all at once. Which is why a lot of people complain about Gauss Rifles being "broken", and why PGI inflated the heat on the HAGs, is because Gauss Rifles don't adhere to this balance, and fly directly in the face of it.

So basically it's a "YOU'LL SHOOT YOUR EYE OUT KID' sort of thing but instead of an eye you lose an engine or at least half of it the first time and the other half the second time or you get shot before the second time happens.

[JPeiper]

Bit salty but here goes...My thanks to 99.9% of players who make this game playable, players here are so much bettter than many online games but for me my Five year "tour" is over for now . For background I play assaults, I love the tactical elements/angles/weapon mix etc and have spent June,July,August playing multiple games, I feel the gameplay is too frustrating now, was going to play all monday but just quit having been swarmed by lights for Four games in a row, just 1 or 2 lights circle strafing and I can bairly get a shot on 'em . Don't get me wrong, I respect the light pilots and thier use of skilled up mechs with mg's and laz(x pulse now too) and jj's that turn a mech into a helicopter, but the gameplay and game mechanics have become like call of duty (run sprint jump strafe) . Fun note, was playing tier 2 but got nailed by VERYskilled lights most of the time ,so played a Locust PB to see what it's like and as expected got shot to bits and dropped back to tier 3 !
Last game I saw a mad 2 and highlander shot to bits by a Pir and Mist Linx, before they got me too. Thier firepower and mobility was amazing, unlike me. Did try an LRM boat for this match, my next mistake, I could'nt keep a lock untill missles arrived due to the combination of radar dep skills and the missle speed nerf, it was bad before the patch but is now unplayable.No more LRMs for me.
I feel The Ledgends are deff pay to win, having walked around a corner on Solaris and been blatted by an LBX 80 Anni I'm surprised my Faf was'nt blown off it's feet, and a Ledgends Stalker took an undamaged arm with one shot from Four B LL's.
I know lots of players hate the "death ball" of heavy/assaults but this is a direct result of the buffing of lights, a heavy player can't be cought away from the grp, so nascar follows as we can't be left behind, and another poor game results.
So I'm a bit stuck, I have to follow the nascar, I can't now have a change in gameplay by using LRMs and my poor old Faf is blown to bits by Ledgends.
Going to find something fun to play, but I do hope this game can be saved.See you in a year or so.

[Tarteso]

JPeiper, on 28 August 2023 - 08:50 AM, said:

Bit salty but here goes...My thanks to 99.9% of players who make this game playable, players here are so much bettter than many online games but for me my Five year "tour" is over for now . For background I play assaults, I love the tactical elements/angles/weapon mix etc and have spent June,July,August playing multiple games, I feel the gameplay is too frustrating now, was going to play all monday but just quit having been swarmed by lights for Four games in a row, just 1 or 2 lights circle strafing and I can bairly get a shot on 'em . Don't get me wrong, I respect the light pilots and thier use of skilled up mechs with mg's and laz(x pulse now too) and jj's that turn a mech into a helicopter, but the gameplay and game mechanics have become like call of duty (run sprint jump strafe) . Fun note, was playing tier 2 but got nailed by VERYskilled lights most of the time ,so played a Locust PB to see what it's like and as expected got shot to bits and dropped back to tier 3 !
Last game I saw a mad 2 and highlander shot to bits by a Pir and Mist Linx, before they got me too. Thier firepower and mobility was amazing, unlike me. Did try an LRM boat for this match, my next mistake, I could'nt keep a lock untill missles arrived due to the combination of radar dep skills and the missle speed nerf, it was bad before the patch but is now unplayable.No more LRMs for me.
I feel The Ledgends are deff pay to win, having walked around a corner on Solaris and been blatted by an LBX 80 Anni I'm surprised my Faf was'nt blown off it's feet, and a Ledgends Stalker took an undamaged arm with one shot from Four B LL's.
I know lots of players hate the "death ball" of heavy/assaults but this is a direct result of the buffing of lights, a heavy player can't be cought away from the grp, so nascar follows as we can't be left behind, and another poor game results.
So I'm a bit stuck, I have to follow the nascar, I can't now have a change in gameplay by using LRMs and my poor old Faf is blown to bits by Ledgends.
Going to find something fun to play, but I do hope this game can be saved.See you in a year or so.

Hey PGI! See what happens when you ignore balance and allow to build a niche within a niche game. New blood leaving to find something else fun to play. But you are going in the right direction. For some.

Edited by Tarteso, 28 August 2023 - 09:18 AM.

[KursedVixen]

Tarteso, on 28 August 2023 - 09:12 AM, said:

Hey PGI! See what happens when you ignore balance and allow to build a niche within a niche game. New blood leaving to find something else fun to play. But you are going in the right direction. For some.

hey tier 1 person see what happens when you act like a pompous snob?

[smokefield]

the only thing needed for lights is to scale them correctly versus the rest of the mechs. I mean a 30 ton mech vs 100 ton should be...maybe 1/3 mass...roughly ? not just as a half leg...

[KursedVixen]

smokefield, on 28 August 2023 - 10:15 AM, said:

the only thing needed for lights is to scale them correctly versus the rest of the mechs. I mean a 30 ton mech vs 100 ton should be...maybe 1/3 mass...roughly ? not just as a half leg...

I dunno I think a locust could be used as a club for an Atlas and an urbanmech as a mace...

[Tarogato]

Voice of Kerensky, on 24 August 2023 - 11:24 PM, said:

And once again I hear this lie.
And once again I want to say that those who cannot live without playing in a group can play FP, thereby bringing this mode back to life.
And once again, I want to remind you that it was the unbalanced groups that killed the FP.
And once again I want to say that right now groups are killing QP. Groups in QP are a cancer that kills the last live mode in the game.

Yes because FP is so populous and everybody wants to play it.

I guarantee in my friend group if we couldn't play QP together, most would quit playing the game entirely, because they don't want to play only FP. And a lot of groups are going to be the same as that.

[Void Angel]

'Mech sizes are a balance issue, but remember where we came from to get to the current scaling. Lights were hardmode for a long time. It's the whole format thing again; you can only get so far with Lights with tabletop-based characteristics when you're not playing a game format where one player controls mutiple 'mechs, with balance constructed on a force-on-force basis. In other words, with MWO's team structure, you have to let Lights be formidable, where in Tabletop, your Locust was simply not threatening an Atlas by itself. And really, it doesn't in MWO either - ask me how I know. But all Light 'mechs are more powerful than they would be in a tabletop simulator, because they have to be.

OK, back to the history: Lights were hands-down the hardest and least effective 'mechs to play for most of MWO's history. Gauss Rifles have low heat, but they're heavy. Other ballistics are hotter, but still cooler for the damage than energy weapons. The balance mechanics are interlinked, not always perfectly - but when translated into a shooter format, a balance mechanic completely absent from the tabletop games was implemented: target size.

So Lights were getting hammered all across the battlefield, because they couldn't compete with the armament of bigger 'mechs, and their speed alone wasn't making up for that shortfall. The rescale helped most Lights a lot, and the quirk system did more for them. We could argue (in another thread) for a long time about how well they're balanced as-is, but scaling Lights "correctly" (i.e. making them bigger) has already been done. It wasn't pretty.