199 replies to this topic

[ScrapIron Prime]

crazytimes, on 10 December 2023 - 02:04 AM, said:

When the legendaries go on sale for MC, I feel morally obligated to buy the longbow to run 14xLRM5 in two chainfire groups.

Will it be effective? No. Will it be fun? Also no.

Okay... I love the name and the camo scheme on the Spitfire, but that is a _HORRIBLE_ LRM mech. No velocity quirks at all. Or any quirks, really... just the ability to fire 60 missiles in a single whoosh without ghost heat... which... isn't that much of an improvement over pressing a second button a half second later.

Edited by ScrapIron Prime, 11 December 2023 - 09:32 AM.

[ScrapIron Prime]

w0qj, on 10 December 2023 - 11:19 AM, said:

ECM protection bubble: -55% protection surface area !
(Area = Pi X Radius X Radius)

I feel that this ECM -55% protection surface area is more for making LRM/ATM boats more viable again...
Simply your ECM teammate walk off a little bit, and you'll be out of the ECM protection bubble... making LRM/ATM more effective...

Which is why I'm upset that half of the Legendary Mechs do not have AMS hardpoints...
(Perhaps MWO should consider adding AMS hardpoints back in?)

Radar Deprivation is still the biggest factor in preventing LRM casualties, along with the ridiculously low velocity. The ECM change will make it so you can get a lock on more of the friends of an ECM mech, but not an ECM mech itself, and losing that lock still applies.

Still, I'll be eager to see how it plays out. I'm sure if its too good for LRM's they'll nerf it next month.

[martian]

ScrapIron Prime, on 11 December 2023 - 09:31 AM, said:

Okay... I love the name and the camo scheme on the Spitfire, but that is a _HORRIBLE_ LRM mech. No velocity quirks at all. Or any quirks, really... just the ability to fire 60 missiles in a single whoosh without ghost heat... which... isn't that much of an improvement over pressing a second button a half second later.

Typical WW2 Supermarine Spitfire carried a pair of ACs and 2-4 MGs. Some early Spitfires boated 8 MGs, some boated ACs.

But when somebody says "Spitfire", missiles or rockets are not the first thing that I would imagine.

[KursedVixen]

Staude, on 11 December 2023 - 01:51 AM, said:

OK
IS can fire 3 ER large Lasers without Ghost Heat- Clan 2

IS can fire 12 Small Lasers without Ghost Heat- Clan 6

IS can fire 3 Large Pulse Lasers - Clan 2

Let's also talk about the mechs that HSL has on the IS side and compare them with the clan mechs

Let's compare the health values of the IS and the Clan Heat Sinks ( IS 10- Clan 4 )


The entire package of weapons should be taken into account this also includes Burning time, reload time, heat of the individual lasers, And don't forget the armor and structural quirks of the IS mechs

also all clan weapons take longer to do damage aside from PPC and non-ultra autocannons

AmbidXtrousGNOME, on 11 December 2023 - 09:14 AM, said:

I think having HAGs be a gauss shotgun would be pretty cool. It could provide a new gameplay style since I usually only see LBXs paired with SNPPCs or SRMs and used for that <400m kind of range. The only shotgun sniping I do is with the scattershot or an Assault LBX-2 boat.

I liked how hags were when they were introduced the first patch that changed them was fine but i really do not like them having no spread, Frost_Byte or another mod said they were workign too well in 600m well so what Clans are suppose to be a little OP with how low their armor is compared to IS they should have at least ONe good mid range weapon...

[w0qj]

Amen!

martian, on 11 December 2023 - 08:37 AM, said:

Hyper-Assault Gauss Rifles have never been intended to be a long-range, concentrated damage sniper weapons.

HAGs are supposed to be something like Clan ballistic equivalent of Inner Sphere MRMs (or like untypical LBX Autocannon firing only cluster shots), dishing out spread damage and being most useful in the short- and medium-range brackets.

[CrustyMech]

Frost_Byte, on 10 December 2023 - 02:30 PM, said:

Just responding to multiple things without quoting them because I’m lazy

Any chance the various sales referenced in your original patch post might include things like engines and weapons and cockpit items and.... add-ons??

Edited by CrustyMech, 11 December 2023 - 02:36 PM.

[Cyborg Lucas]

Standard engine with armor in only head center and legs...

[ScrapIron Prime]

martian, on 11 December 2023 - 10:18 AM, said:

Typical WW2 Supermarine Spitfire carried a pair of ACs and 2-4 MGs. Some early Spitfires boated 8 MGs, some boated ACs.

But when somebody says "Spitfire", missiles or rockets are not the first thing that I would imagine.

I totally agree. The name and the camo would have been better spent on a Champion. That at least looks airplane-ish.

[Voice of Kerensky]

I would like to say a little to those who endlessly whine about the place of LRM in the game.
1) You don’t know what a truly oppressed weapon is. Every fight I see at least 3 - 4 LRM mechs. Which roughly corresponds to the percentage of other types of weapons presented in each individual battle. In each individual battle you will find the same number of mechs: short/medium/long range energy; short/medium range missiles; short/medium/long range ballistics; mixed builds (missiles/energy, energy/ballistics, missiles/ballistics). That is, you are blatantly lying. LRMs are as prevalent in the game as any other weapon system. And what is typical is that lurm boats, based on the results of the match, always have an average damage approximately equal to other types of weapons. And, to understand what a truly oppressed weapon is, you can look at the streaks. This weapon is truly oppressed and unplayable. And every meeting of a mech with such a weapon in battle is a good reason to open a bottle of champagne.
2) Half of those negative features of LRM that you constantly talk about can be easily solved - equip your mech with a TAG/NARC/UAV, don’t hide behind cover, go out to the enemy, shoot at him, share the damage with your team equally. But the problem is in your psychology. A typical lurmlover needs only one thing - to stand behind cover and inflict damage on the enemy without risk to himself, while his team is forced to face the enemy face to face. That is, every inveterate lurmuser is led by banal cowardice. Yes, you can come up with a nice excuse for yourself that you are supposedly helping the team in this way, that this style of play is the only correct style of play on the LRM. But this is just a false excuse for his cowardice.
3) For some reason, defenders of the LRM are always bashfully silent about such an absolutely unbalanced system as the NARC.
4) Do you want to destroy the ECM? Do you want to remove the radar dep from the game? Do you want instant lock on target? Maybe you want to pay for this by losing the ability to hit 100% of the missiles in a separate mech? Perhaps then PGI should consider giving LRM boats the ability to hit only the area where the locked mech is standing, and not the mech itself? Maybe if the ECM/radar dep is removed, 40-50% of the missiles will hit the ground and only 50-60% of the missiles will hit the locked mech? All other weapon systems have a huge chance of not hitting the enemy. And only the experience and accuracy of a particular player can reduce the chance of a miss. Or do you still need the ability to stand behind cover and shoot enemies with impunity with 100% efficiency from a range of 1000 meters? Do you want that? Well then I have bad news for you. As long as PGI and Cauldron have at least a little brain, this will never happen.

[Wid1046]

The Spitfire should get an MRM10 HSL+3 quirk to allow it to fire two volleys of 7 MRM10s.
Would it be good? Not even remotely since it would have horrible heat management and need to take a slow XL engine due to the weight.
Would it be hilarious? Yes.

[KursedVixen]

Cyborg Lucas, on 11 December 2023 - 02:37 PM, said:

Standard engine with armor in only head center and legs...

scalshot with standard engine.

[Ilostmycactus]

Toning down muzzle flash would be soooo nice. Being blinded by enemies and forced into using thermal vision is also annoying. But at a bare minimum I'd think hyper advanced tech would have some kind of automatic filter in the cockpit.

I've mentioned it before but the problem with direct firing lrms is that you're at a massive disadvantage to other weapon systems. If you dumb fire you get a slow, super spread, weirdly arcing weapon that's just going to splash all over the enemy. If you wait for a lock, you have to wait until it sets and then keep it there. Meanwhile your opponent can twist whenever they want and then alpha your specific components. If the ballistic characteristics weren't so weird, and if you weren't punished by the extra half second or whatever that it takes to reacquire a lock and hold it every time you had to twist so your components weren't drilled out, it might be viable. The times when lrms are oppressive are when groups use them with team coordination. Which isn't much different from Scaleshot drops or Piranha drops or Crusader drops etc. Almost no one uses narcs unless they're already in a group. You can't solo drop and expect one to be there.

Personally I think wire guided missiles would make direct firing a lot more effective and different from mrms, but when I suggested it to the Cauldron I was told it wasn't possible with the engine or host state rewind or something.
Some different ammo types would be cool too.
Or just make the arc to maintain a lock a lot wider in lrm mechs so you can at least twist in engagements without immediately losing a lock. The locks appear to be radar based anyway (tag is the laser designated), so why are you required to have direct focus?

What I really want is for flamers to get an overhaul. Please, they're so irrelevant. Make them a napalm style DOT weapon if you don't want to mess with the implications of the heat system. Or just an energy based mg.

Edited by Ilostmycactus, 11 December 2023 - 08:47 PM.

[Saved By The Bell]

Almost forgot.

Bear claw map is too dark in ANY vision.

[Dogistan]

Why did they do a general heat sink nerf for Clans? I thought the issue was high alpha builds, but instead of that you nerf dps and increase vulnerability of all Clan mechs. That makes no sense. This is made even worse by the fact IS mechs are getting even more buffs.

So you still have the high alpha builds blowing your torso off in one burst and less of the other Clan mechs that were not causing any problems because they are less effective now.

[Battlemaster56]

Tarogato, on 10 December 2023 - 09:07 PM, said:

Wow a six year old video...

[ShooteyMcShooterson]

Why are RAC projectiles being inflated by nearly 40%? Doesn't this game already have enough issues with frame rate drop?

I guess they want everyone to have to run the game in 720p or 480p? LMAO

Edited by ShooteyMcShooterson, 12 December 2023 - 05:49 AM.

[Aidan Crenshaw]

ShooteyMcShooterson, on 12 December 2023 - 05:48 AM, said:

Why are RAC projectiles being inflated by nearly 40%? Doesn't this game already have enough issues with frame rate drop?

I guess they want everyone to have to run the game in 720p or 480p? LMAO

Frost_Byte, on 10 December 2023 - 02:30 PM, said:

Just responding to multiple things without quoting them because I’m lazy

Warthog standard MG bug has been fixed this patch.

RAC ROF increase was part of a backend adjustment to prevent macro abuse. Plus, in my opinion, the higher rate of fire makes the minigun style much more satisfying.

As said before, WHM isn’t part of the monthly free mech event. It’s Daeron’s favorite mech so he requested a holiday one
Some major scrooges in this patch notes thread!



I believe the exact argument is “higher skill higher reward.” Weapons that are easier to use should be less rewarding and have less output. This would encourage players to apply themselves and use weapons that require higher levels of skill and more active input.!

[KursedVixen]

the check engine light, on 12 December 2023 - 06:12 AM, said:

Only concern with the RAC change at this point is what effect it will have on the weapon's already somewhat questionable viability.

viability? I see them used all the time on nightstars and the one Bushwacker in the side torsos... not to mention other big mechs i hate that they blind you when they shoot you in the face. but the flamer can't do the same??

Edited by KursedVixen, 12 December 2023 - 07:21 AM.

[hypographia]

Frost_Byte, on 10 December 2023 - 02:30 PM, said:

I believe the exact argument is “higher skill higher reward.” Weapons that are easier to use should be less rewarding and have less output. This would encourage players to apply themselves and use weapons that require higher levels of skill and more active input.!

Pretty sure it requires more skill to get any decent damage numbers with LRMs over say, blue beams and brawl builds... With the number of countermeasures out there (even with the ECM nerf) and the reliance on teammates, etc... I'd argue that just because the weapon system is indirect fire, doesn't automatically make it a low/zero skill weapon. There are no countermeasures to gauss, ERLL, etc... yet LRM play has specific countermeasures devoted to it. Getting 1k dmg sitting in Zimbabwe burning pixels is a very easy target to attain. Making a volley of missles connect against raderp, ecm, ams, etc... no so much.

Edited by hypographia, 12 December 2023 - 07:33 AM.

[KursedVixen]

hypographia, on 12 December 2023 - 07:32 AM, said:

Pretty sure it requires more skill to get any decent damage numbers with LRMs over say, blue beams and brawl builds... With the number of countermeasures out there (even with the ECM nerf) and the reliance on teammates, etc... I'd argue that just because the weapon system is indirect fire, doesn't automatically make it a low/zero skill weapon. There are no countermeasures to gauss, ERLL, etc... yet LRM play has specific countermeasures devoted to it. Getting 1k dmg sitting in Zimbabwe burning pixels is a very easy target to attain. Making a volley of missles connect against raderp, ecm, ams, etc... no so much.

Especially against fast targets like lights with blue beams and gauss at least you have the luxury of consistently hitting lights with LRMs not to much not to mention Stealth armor on like the thanatos that can carry steatlth and 2 gauss rifles nobody will know your even there until they get hit, you cannot do stealth with LRMS as it makes your sensors almost useless. And for aimbot users what is the better weapon??? (Don't lie they exist.)

With LRMS you have to choose your targets carefully with Gauss and blue beams you just point and shoot pretty much....

And i'd like to reiterate the point that there are zero countermeasures to blue beams and gauss while Lrms can be almost or entirly shot down by a corsair 7a or a pirahna 3 or heck a Nova with 3 ams.

And yet here we have a long bow with +6 HSL for Lrms coming soon, and your telling me Lrms are low skil? THEN WHY DOES THIS MECH EXIST! and don't tell me "Because it's unique.

AS a final point I'd like to note that in all games based on battltech tabletop Lrms always go to 1000meters yet in tabletop LRMs actually only have a max range of 630 Only when you include ELRM or Streak LRm which is a Clan only do you reach 840 STILL NOT 1000 meters.... and atm er AMMO only reaches 810 meters.... Also unless your a fire support mech like a Catapult or Mad Dog Lrms are for softening up targets before the big brawly bois rush in... they are not meant to be a primary weapon.. yet everyone uses them as a primary gun when they are as the name of the catapult is FIRE SUPPORT

Edited by KursedVixen, 12 December 2023 - 08:30 AM.