283 replies to this topic

[AnAnachronismAlive]

BLXKNTRR, on 01 March 2024 - 10:26 AM, said:

[...] obvious and trivial because the solution is so evident. Simply [...] black knight side torso are larger, weaker, and always get hit [...]

Dry run for any language analyst, isn't it? Boy, the way you remind me of a certain Juggernaut/Fafnir-Enthusiast some months ago. Anyhow ... we tried, mate. At least we tried.

[BLXKNTRR]

AnAnachronismAlive, on 01 March 2024 - 02:37 PM, said:

Dry run for any language analyst, isn't it? Boy, the way you remind me of a certain Juggernaut/Fafnir-Enthusiast some months ago. Anyhow ... we tried, mate. At least we tried.

Ok Chomsky idk what youre even saying here

But comparing a orion to black knight is absolutely reasonable and if you disagree you're probably just wrong and should try being less wrong

If you do the math, you will find the orion comes out on top unless its already half dead in an engagement.

Edited by BLXKNTRR, 02 March 2024 - 12:17 AM.

[BLXKNTRR]

I am not talking about buffing the red reaper specifically. Im talking about all bk's

Edited by BLXKNTRR, 02 March 2024 - 12:17 AM.

[BLXKNTRR]

The orion has 2x the armor of the black knight.

All I am asking for is a slight 10 armor buff to the side torso with some anti crit dmg quirk. I think-40% would be fine. Why is this even a point of contention makes absolutely no sense to me.

Edited by BLXKNTRR, 02 March 2024 - 12:16 AM.

[BLXKNTRR]

The responses and complete lack of engagement on this issue in a serious manner is a major disappointment coming from a community I thought more of until now. Youre all blakist patsies

Edited by BLXKNTRR, 02 March 2024 - 12:22 AM.

[MarcinT1981]

BLXKNTRR, on 02 March 2024 - 12:22 AM, said:

Youre all blakist patsies

Do not worry. After all, you are the best player to play Black Knight. You'll be fine without these quirks

[BLXKNTRR]

ScrapIron Prime, on 29 February 2024 - 04:54 PM, said:

you want your favorite mech to rank up there with the tankiest mech in the game? Yeah, okay.


If there’s been any rescaling since 2016, I missed it. Those devs are no longer with the company, and a rescale is not trivial for this game engine… plus the game engine itself is darn near Lostech on its own.

But the Orion did recently get a kingly survivability buff. That’s the sort of thing that is doable with the current level of developer support… changing values in a spreadsheet.

I meant to say, i don't want to be at the level of a lucky 7, but i feel the black knight by definition should have similar quirks. If the orion is a mini atlas, the black knight should be a mini charger... Despite being larger 😑

[BLXKNTRR]

MarcinT1981, on 02 March 2024 - 02:29 AM, said:

Do not worry. After all, you are the best player to play Black Knight. You'll be fine without these quirks

Its pretty hard to want to spend time on a game with this kind of thing going on.

Black knight needs buff. Its as simple as that

[Bud Crue]

Haven't seen more recent data then what was shared by Tiyos at the end of 2023, but of the 114 chassis in the game, the BK's were 46th in terms of average match score. Seems pretty solid. However, they did (do) appear to also be lagging behind Orions in just about every category (damage done, survival ability, W/L) excepting popularity. That said, they do appear to be solidly middle of the pack compared to all heavies.

All in all, while I think the OP's tone is a little abrasive here, I think he's right in that the BK could use a little, very mild buffing in some manner. I'd want to see the current data though.

[East Indy]

Bud Crue, on 02 March 2024 - 09:38 AM, said:

Haven't seen more recent data then what was shared by Tiyos at the end of 2023

Could you share a link? Searched and couldn't find (might be on Discord, I imagine).

[Bud Crue]

East Indy, on 02 March 2024 - 10:18 AM, said:

Could you share a link? Searched and couldn't find (might be on Discord, I imagine).

https://docs.google....dit?usp=sharing

[BLXKNTRR]

Bud Crue, on 02 March 2024 - 09:38 AM, said:

Haven't seen more recent data then what was shared by Tiyos at the end of 2023, but of the 114 chassis in the game, the BK's were 46th in terms of average match score. Seems pretty solid. However, they did (do) appear to also be lagging behind Orions in just about every category (damage done, survival ability, W/L) excepting popularity. That said, they do appear to be solidly middle of the pack compared to all heavies.

All in all, while I think the OP's tone is a little abrasive here, I think he's right in that the BK could use a little, very mild buffing in some manner. I'd want to see the current data though.

Ive been told I can be a lot abrasive.

I apologize. I strongly disagree with everyone saying the bk is fine. Ive played countless times. There is a theme, and it is that the side torsos are too fragile. At a minimum the bk needs some anti crit quirks and/ or slight armor boost. Some new quirks would be refreshing too.

I bought a zeus and skilled it, btw, to the consternated Zeus union or w.e it was: Now I understand.

Zeus may need buff also. But the quirks are pretty good. Anyways that for a different post

But, back to the topic. The black knight needs just a slight push into a better fit for the mech role in battle, and mechwarrior online and the community would benefit if the devs could use the spread sheet along with some polls, and some common sense (no offense) to polish this up a bit.

A -30% or 40% crit chance paired with skill tree would be balanced because thats alot of nodes. You'd need to sacrifice skills from elsewhere.

Edited by BLXKNTRR, 02 March 2024 - 06:09 PM.

[kalashnikity]

Tell you what, put a sword in that left hand and we can talk, I mean an actual melee weapon sword...

[KrazedOmega]

The torso hardpoint locations still aren't high enough. They should have been moved to the upper pectoral area of the mech instead of the lower area.

Also, stop putting arm mounted weapon hardpoints on the underside of the arms.

[BLXKNTRR]

KrazedOmega, on 03 March 2024 - 06:27 PM, said:

The torso hardpoint locations still aren't high enough. They should have been moved to the upper pectoral area of the mech instead of the lower area.

Also, stop putting arm mounted weapon hardpoints on the underside of the arms.

Im fine with the mounts.

Nine-Ball, on 03 March 2024 - 05:30 PM, said:

Black knight's problem is that the battlemaster does what it does better. More armor (84 sidetorso, 120ish torso /w skills ontop of 60 structure /w skills), faster (3M had 7.5% speed buff with the tonnage to mount a beefy engine), and 6 nice and high torso mounted laser points.

Red-reaper with missiles is just a slower version of the BLR-1S -- 1S can achieve similar speed with a light engine if need be (mid 70s).

No shield is not that big of a deal if you know how to torso twist. Size difference between the two is minimal at best.

And yet the Battlemaster hasn't seen a buff or requirk aside from fiddling with laser HSL on it. And aside from me piloting all the time I rarely see it as opposed to everything else.

Maybe make the black knight a touch smaller and give it some more range buffs or something, I dunno.

I think the battle master has superior mounts, and that is why it is close to the black knight. While its for a different post, perhaps a list of all mechs that need buffed and in what ways, I appreciate your input.

This is a post about the black knight and how it is not tanky enough for its namesake.

[Curccu]

BLXKNTRR, on 01 March 2024 - 09:30 AM, said:

Recap-
The Black Knight needs some sort of armor buff.

BLXKNTRR, on 01 March 2024 - 09:30 AM, said:

Reasoning- The Orion, a 75 tonner, has 88 armor arms, and 122 side torsos. Similar, if not identical combat roles. I would argue, superior quirks as well.
Solution- buff Black knight to Orion levels

Black Knights have way way better hardpoints than Orion so no it does not need same level armor quirks, compare it to something more similar like Thanatos, you see pretty similar armor quirks.

BLXKNTRR, on 01 March 2024 - 09:30 AM, said:

Concession- Keep Black Knight armor the same and add lucky 7 charger anti crit quirks

Number Seven has STRUCTURE quirks not ARMOR like black knights.

[BLXKNTRR]

Im not asking for a survivability buff anywhere near the charger lucky 7, i thought i made that abundantly clear

Im asking for a extremely slight survivability buff because the side torsos are extremely glass.

Im not sure the best way to achieve it( whether structural quirks/anti crit, or armor or some mix there of- or buffing torso twist speed since orion is 160 vs black knight 130~140 depending on variant)

Orion hard points are fine, especially compared with the black knights. And its got the armor of an atlas- basically.

[BLXKNTRR]

Not all black knights are quirked for large laser alphas. Not everyone plays black knights in this way. It is not a deal damage from afar mech due to his dimensions anyways I would argue

I compared the black knight to an orion. 75 ton to 75 ton, heavy to heavy. People saying that apples to oranges then same people say nothing to comparison to assaults

Personally, telling me that a 75 tonner that at best still has 6 mediums supporting 2-3 larger weapons, or worse is comparable to one of the best and true laser vomit assaults that boat large pulse lasers is freaking ridiculous

[BLXKNTRR]

Also, back to comparison between orion and black knight

They are for peaking corners, definitely.

The orion has the armor to be for flexible about when to apply pressure by leaving cover and going on the offensive

But say your peaking the same corner with both mechs, attacking same number and type of enemies

The orion has 88 and 122 armor in the arm and side torsos respectively.

It also has 160 torso turn rate versus the Black knights at best 140

While the Black Knight has a mirror 67 armor arm and 82 armor torso, with no ballistic mount in the right torso I might add

Its completely clear and obvious that the black knight needs some kind of survivability buff

[Quicksilver Aberration]

BLXKNTRR, on 04 March 2024 - 05:43 AM, said:

Im asking for a extremely slight survivability buff because the side torsos are extremely glass.

The hyperbole here, they are made of glass, but only need an extremely slight survivability buff? Quite the conundrum. I think of all the 75 IS tonners, Black Knights have the smallest side torsos.

Thanatos = largest and easiest to isolate side torsos
Orion = easy to isolate side torsos, not as easy as the Thanatos though
Marauder = stalker profile meaning side torsos typically take a lot of damage

None of the above are really XL safe like the BK is.

Could it use some tweaks? Probably. Is it worth 5 pages of arguments considering there are much worse mechs that could use attention for? No

Edited by Quicksilver Aberration, 04 March 2024 - 08:01 AM.