64 replies to this topic

[CwStrife]

InnerSphereNews, on 15 August 2025 - 09:27 AM, said:

8v8 Post Mortem

Hey all,



We've decided to call the 8v8 test early; QP will be returning to normal as of this post. The second weekend isn't required, now that we've had a full week's cycle, it's given me all the data we need. As promised, here are some of my findings and tests from this event(spoiler: it gets boring from here).



Unlike last year's 8v8 event, I (Tiyos) had full access to all matchmaker controls and tools this time. While I'm not an engineer and thus cannot create new mechanics and behaviors, I can tweak and adjust values defined by the engineers before me. During the summer, MWO experiences a dip in player count, which causes a temporary increase in search times. My goal with this 8v8 event was to see if, during the parts of the year where player count dips, 8v8 was a suitable alternative to longer wait times. During this event, I was also making other changes to the matchmaker in the background and monitoring its impact on search times and match quality. Some of the changes were opening tier gates quicker or slower, changing weight class balancing priorities(which then caused some matches of five assaults against one or two), or mixed group allowances. There are still some changes I would like to test once 12v12 is back up and running and the dust has settled.



To answer the question of poor wait times at certain times of the year, I have heard your feedback. While a portion of the player base enjoyed 8v8, the overwhelming message received is that our players want the game to remain 12v12 in Quick Play. During periods with long search times, we will instead prioritize opening the tier gates quicker to merge our player base into fewer buckets until a better solution presents itself.



Another piece of feedback often given was the existence of "soup" queue, or groups and solos merged into one queue. While total group size, tonnage, and composition are up for debate and potential change, groups will remain in the queue. We are well aware of how interconnected and social our community is. We will maintain players ability to play with their friends as they desire.



Thanks for your patience during this test and your dedication to MechWarrior Online.
Happy hunting in the returned 12v12.



MechWarrior Online Team

Tiyos thank you for everything. It did seem like we were getting some odd changes on the fly, and while the quicker search time are appreciated by all i'm sure, the game just performs much better in 12v12... possibly because we've all just become so accustomed to it. It really threw some ringers for all of us I think..

As you said you aren't able to change as much as was able to be done prior since your basically the one guy left, is there any hope of any more complex changes to be made?

I threw out the idea and have asked several people and i've gotten overwhelming positive response of what if Faction Play were changed to just quick play maps with a 4 mech drop deck... Regular quick play objectives, lose all the hardcore faction stuff.... The mode is dead and rarely played, and i'm an old school faction guy... it's just not gonna come back... There also used to be in faction play the ability for units to conquer planets and hold them on the map and gain MC from this. I'd be curious if that's something you could restore? I know my suggestion may not be the best solution, but if it's possible why not try?

I heard many people say that if that was the case they would definitely pick up faction again, heck maybe even old players would return since there would be something new... Capture the planets for the units... get MC... units have a reason to exist again... and then groups would have more reason to play over there than in QP, not to mention drop, die, rinse and repeat 4x in a row really changes the dynamic and can make it alot of fun. Just a suggestion, I have no idea if it's possible, but if looking at ways to increase player count and make the game more fun just trying to suggest things that already have existed within the game itself that might be able to be brought back and tweaked.

Thanks for all your effort Tiyos!

Edited by CwStrife, 15 August 2025 - 12:28 PM.

[Bingo Fuel]

thank you... I will buy a TSP to support the game.

[Mykor]

I’m not a programmer engineer and not sure if it’s possible but if so, why not have both. I mean before match players get to select the map and game mode beforehand why not add a third selection of 8v8 or 12v12 as well. If doable, try that out and gain feedback from that set up.

You can make adjustments to the 8v8 as well so it’s less restrictive then standard 12v12 or vice versa if that works better.
If this can be done then players can have the choice for waiting a little bit longer for a standard 12v12 match or jump into a 8v8 match sooner depending on player pool any given day or time of year.

Again , not sure if this is possible somehow but maybe someone else can make that sound more plausible than I did. Anyway, thanks for the effort.

[Disturbed247]

I liked it. Less tryhards teaming up and sniping every match, as the team had to actually rely on each other more. oh well. ill still keep playing all the same.

[Drunk CEO Monologues]

Glad I checked forums today. Wasn't planning on playing all weekend. Only thing I'd say, if you can Tiyos, is work on the matchmaker. I don't think its bad to put Tier 1 and 5 players in the same match as long as the teams are balanced. I don't care if the best two players in the game are in the same match, along with the worst two. Just make sure the best 2 aren't on the same team (same for the worst).

[a 5 year old with an Uzi]

Drunk CEO Monologues, on 15 August 2025 - 01:52 PM, said:

Glad I checked forums today. Wasn't planning on playing all weekend. Only thing I'd say, if you can Tiyos, is work on the matchmaker. I don't think its bad to put Tier 1 and 5 players in the same match as long as the teams are balanced. I don't care if the best two players in the game are in the same match, along with the worst two. Just make sure the best 2 aren't on the same team (same for the worst).

I did backreading on this a little while ago

Jay Z had a proposed solution involving a secondary MM sorting and it would prob work with uncapping psr

It probably won't happen because no dev support for it

That is what would need to happen for you to get what you want from what I gather

[Sean Lang]

Can you share a bit of that data? Like how many more matches in 8v8 were there? What was the quality in those vs 12v12?

[Davegt27]

I bet this dev got a lesson on how MWO really works

[Smol Rat]

8v8 had been a bit limiting for experimenting around with new loadouts for me without punishing my team for it. That said I just started playing recently and can't just effectively pilot anything the second i touch it, at least not yet. Other than that i really enjoyed my time with it. From how i perceived it typical issues like nascar, missing teamwork, getting shot or blocked by allies had been far less prominent than usual. Players also seemed advancing a bit more aggressive instead of piling up and doing nothing as moving first had been less punishing. Would be nice to see it a bit more regularly. Something like a pre-que preferred team size selector could also work without splitting the player base into multiple game modes/ques, at least gives everyone a fair chance at playing what they prefer.

[Xypherious]

Thanks for trying something, even though I didn't care for 8v8 much. Most of my games were one-sided (against my team, to boot) and I found lights even harder to succeed with than in 12v12- 4 fewer mechs to hold the enemy's attention while I run around and backstab.

That you made adjustments on the fly explains why after a few games where I started to adjust everything changed again and I'd see almost nothing but assaults and heavies (sniping again, too) while running Pirates' Bane or a stealth commando or something.

I really think a drop deck for QP would make a world of difference- it makes FP a lot more fun than QP, but it takes an age to get into a match- as well as dropping PSR for more traditional ELO or something, but my understanding is there isn't anyone left at PGI who can implement a drop deck, and not enough money to hire anyone.

Edited by Xypherious, 15 August 2025 - 02:51 PM.

[Akuumer]

InnerSphereNews, on 15 August 2025 - 09:27 AM, said:

8v8 Post Mortem

Hey all,



We've decided to call the 8v8 test early; QP will be returning to normal as of this post. The second weekend isn't required, now that we've had a full week's cycle, it's given me all the data we need. As promised, here are some of my findings and tests from this event(spoiler: it gets boring from here).



Unlike last year's 8v8 event, I (Tiyos) had full access to all matchmaker controls and tools this time. While I'm not an engineer and thus cannot create new mechanics and behaviors, I can tweak and adjust values defined by the engineers before me. During the summer, MWO experiences a dip in player count, which causes a temporary increase in search times. My goal with this 8v8 event was to see if, during the parts of the year where player count dips, 8v8 was a suitable alternative to longer wait times. During this event, I was also making other changes to the matchmaker in the background and monitoring its impact on search times and match quality. Some of the changes were opening tier gates quicker or slower, changing weight class balancing priorities(which then caused some matches of five assaults against one or two), or mixed group allowances. There are still some changes I would like to test once 12v12 is back up and running and the dust has settled.



To answer the question of poor wait times at certain times of the year, I have heard your feedback. While a portion of the player base enjoyed 8v8, the overwhelming message received is that our players want the game to remain 12v12 in Quick Play. During periods with long search times, we will instead prioritize opening the tier gates quicker to merge our player base into fewer buckets until a better solution presents itself.



Another piece of feedback often given was the existence of "soup" queue, or groups and solos merged into one queue. While total group size, tonnage, and composition are up for debate and potential change, groups will remain in the queue. We are well aware of how interconnected and social our community is. We will maintain players ability to play with their friends as they desire.



Thanks for your patience during this test and your dedication to MechWarrior Online.
Happy hunting in the returned 12v12.



MechWarrior Online Team

I'm already missing 8v8. Already back to nobody pushing, nothing but long range P*ssing matches and allies smashing and running in front of eachother.

[Vilipend]

I like the 8v8 quick play. You should bring it back for a week every other month or so. Makes games more interesting.
Events with drop decks are also fun. More of those would be good.
Thanks for all your time and work spent on match making.

[CwStrife]

Davegt27, on 15 August 2025 - 02:36 PM, said:

I bet this dev got a lesson on how MWO really works

There is only one dev left, Tiyos, so as much as we may not like the decisions, he's doing the best he can with what he has to work with and his ability. Although I criticized 8v8 harshly saying they should have voted on some options before just making a move and consulting with the community, at least he is actively trying something.

[GargoyleVine]

Bingo Fuel, on 15 August 2025 - 12:27 PM, said:

thank you... I will buy a TSP to support the game.

buy an Atlas

[w0qj]

Thank you for MWO's listening attitude!

[Void Angel]

InnerSphereNews, on 15 August 2025 - 09:27 AM, said:

While I'm not an engineer and thus cannot create new mechanics and behaviors,

Depending on the cost, it may be worth Enad's time to contract an engineer to make some adjustments to the matchmaker.

[TTB]

Thanks for sharing the results and being willing to experiment a bit! I've said for years that I'm personally not a fan of soup queue as it benefits groups too much at the detriment of solo players, but I'd rather have that than no queue.

That being said, how about a 8v8 or 12v12 "classic quickplay experience" no groups, one map for 6 hours (e.g. mining collective or other beloved classics) event queue?

[Mayhem Lewis]

Awesome! thanks Tiyos!!!

[Lord of Death]

The only thing wrong with 8v8 is the groups making it unbalanced. It's a problem in 12v12 too, just more so in 8v8 obviously.

TTB's idea was good.

Remove QP groups plz, test that boys. <3

[CwStrife]

I'm curious from what i've been told the MatchMaker is looking ideally for a 4 man group, a 2 man group, and 6 solos? Could those rules be loosened? Most of the people I see on my friends list are always in a group. Maybe there would be some internal data Tiyos has where he could evaluate how many people are generally queuing up in groups vs solo maybe that would help speed things along for times?