558 replies to this topic

[Master Twigg]

Wow, 22pages of it all. I think the OP was about on point with this one as it is never a happy event when you get legged yourself. Having said that I will aim for Knee actuators when I can, see the opening to do so.
My view point on it all is this; It is a mechanic of the game, Intentional inclusion of the mechanic means that it was intended to be used.
Wounding a single target of opportunity has been a long time-honored tradition of warfare in general. Even in the books that most of us have read over a thousand times before there where Pilots that would "Leg" an opponent just for the strategic advantage.
Basically I see it like this; If it is implemented poorly then it is bad, if it is done well it can be worse. But screaming at the dice will never take the '1' off that D20.
Sorry.

[PodX140]

I think I'm OK with legging as long as they hold proper amounts of armor. Seriously, unlike torso or arms, there isn't all THAT much going on in the legs, and you should be able to really throw some tonnage in there. However, if you have jump jets, that armor better be going down, but it's a fair trade. More mobility for less leg armor seems fair to me.

[syngyne]

PixelPixie, on 22 June 2012 - 07:49 AM, said:

i thiks its fine as it stands...not shooting the legs but keeping it allowed and in line with the game.

legging should give more of a dishonor to the pilot and his/her unit or house..no true warrior would leg
as they would find it more honor bound to fight it out.

Soooo.... if we're going to dive into the fictional aspect of this...

If you are defending a planet from an invading force, your only "honor" should lie with defending that planet by any means necessary. If you have opportunities to end a fight quickly by blowing the legs out from under your opponent and don't take them, you are putting the people you're defending at unnecessary risk, all for the sake of machismo.

[CALIBORS]

I remember not being happy on the Snes game until my opponents had no arms and 1 leg. Find cover or stay in a pool of water, everything about this game is making it have lots of strategys, all good

[Fl3tcher]

I understand peoples hatred of being legged , cruising along in your Atlas dominating the battlefield when someone 2 shots your leg out from under you, but is it any worse then being decapitated by an AC20 or a Gauss Rifle?

Sorry guys, legging is no different from tracking in WoT, it's a viable tactic to disable the enemy rendering him easier to hit and less able to fight back.

It's a great way to level the playing field between a Light and an Assault that's for sure.

[Whiski]

War is war, and any tactic or advantage you gain on your enemy is worth exploiting. That is how wars are won.....deception, advantages, exploit weaknesses, etc.

I have played war and strategy games (both board and virtual) for almost 30 years now. Never have I once said to anyone "that's not fair" or "that tactic is BS". If they got me by any means at their disposal, good for them, they found my weak point and exploited it. As I would do to them.

Don't punch me in the face, but in the stomach is ok, don't pin me down because I have a hard time defending against it. It just sounds....well....sad...in a game of war to not take advantage of weak point on your enemy.

Legging to me is legit. Not saying that is the only point I will be targeting, but its not off my target list. I have no problem with someone shooting for my legs, after all, the point is to destroy you enemy is it not?

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Quote

How many different possible ways can your mech get destroyed?

[DAVID] To destroy a BattleMech, you have to destroy the head, destroy the center torso, or destroy both legs.

http://mwomercs.com/...5-mech-warfare/

Quote

Q: Playing previous MechWarrior titles, and from what I understand of the pen and paper version as well, the game quickly degenerated into how quickly can you blow off one of the legs of a mech. Will the same tactic be an effective game ender for players in MechWarrior Online? [HOSTIA]

A: Only when we play with Russ [laughter]. Seriously though, we are always balancing, tweaking, fixing, changing, etc. With Betas we also get player feedback, which we can look at and check out. Currently, legging works, but it's not better than 'coring' (concentrating fire on the Centre Torso) nor 'headshotting.' They're all equally viable, though headshotting takes the best aim by far. [GARTH]

http://mwomercs.com/...devs-5-answers/

If youre not gonna read the available information already out there, dont post lol

also, stop ppl from shooting the legs, whats next? The head? The back? The arms? Do we end up with a completely invulnerable mech other than the torsos and only from the front? Where does it end?

Yeah it sucks when someone uses GOOD TACTICS against you but then you ADAPT. You DONT ask the devs to make using GOOD TACTICS illegal.

[Marroc]

Play it like the board game! If the dice are lucky and someone gets legged, time to run in and start kicking!

[Fl3tcher]

514yer, on 22 June 2012 - 08:32 AM, said:

Yeah it sucks when someone uses GOOD TACTICS against you but then you ADAPT. You DONT ask the devs to make using GOOD TACTICS illegal.

How long until they ask for a nerf on LRMs because you don't need LoS to use them do you think?

[Eiki]

Marroc, on 22 June 2012 - 08:39 AM, said:

Play it like the board game! If the dice are lucky and someone gets legged, time to run in and start kicking!

And now I am imagining six Jenners kicking the crap out of a downed Atlas.

[CowboyHatValor]

If this game rises to the level of competitive play, you won't be able to rely on some kind of gamer moral code to avoid the most effective strategy.

We will have to rely on Dev balance. They have stated they are keeping a keen eye on it.

[Kalenn]

MitchellTyner, on 02 February 2012 - 02:57 PM, said:

honestly I hope the motion of the mech is realistic so the aiming is no accurate, where every step makes the mech bounce or shudder etc so only way to get accurate shots is to be still. that would make the legs so much harder to hit, also might help to make their hit boxes smaller so that weapon fire would have to be very accurate to actually hit the legs. If I'm in a light or medium and i'm fighting superior power up close I'm going to shoot you in the vulnerable points if I can ... it's a valid tactic but overused just b/c it can be.

Do you guys understand what I'm saying?

The motion sway is something that is interesting, but the current gameplay videos appear to be showing a reticule that maintains a constant focus point while your torso moves around you - this is equivalent to the pilot actively repositioning their head against the torso sway, or being in some kind of floating cradle that does so. The latter isn't totally crazy, given it's 1,000 years from now, but would be more realistic (and make one-shots much tougher) if motion sway was more punitively implemented. This also has the side effect of making matches longer... and making skill count for a lot more. Until you've learned how to keep your 'Mech pointed at the right spot, you're going to miss a lot (as you should!)...

[Project_Mercy]

CowboyHatValor, on 22 June 2012 - 08:44 AM, said:

If this game rises to the level of competitive play, you won't be able to rely on some kind of gamer moral code to avoid the most effective strategy.

We will have to rely on Dev balance. They have stated they are keeping a keen eye on it.

Anything they could do outside of adjusting targeting, will just exacerbate the issue. If you put in hard protection on the leg, people will just start lowering leg armor and putting it somewhere else to increase their Time-To-Live. I guess adding a bunch of chest-high walls around the areas could help

Really though, legging is legging. The problem with MW2/3 was that dropping ONE leg was sufficient to destroy the mech instead of making it fall. PGI has already said that's not the case here.

[Fastred]

Gremlich Johns, on 02 February 2012 - 02:59 PM, said:

Inadvertant legging isn't an issue and I doubt many of us can claim it has not happened from time to time. Players can usually figure out intentional legging if they have been playing the game for a while. Typical response is to gang up on the offending agent until he leaves or acquieces to the prohibition.

I find the legging prohibition amusing after having spent a lot of hours playing in competitive leagues.

Instead of saying hey I don't like that don't shoot me or we grief you. We taught our people to use terrain and protect their legs. As the unit scout if I ran up on a assault mech with red leg armor, that mech was losing a leg but if it had gone critical in the CT that is what I burned through. You are not going to limit what I can or can't shoot just because it suits you and since we are playing a simulating war it is not a reasonable expectation on your part.

We had a member of our team that specialized in killing mechs with cockpit shots, so what is worse two headshots and dead just trying to get LOS or someone trying to target legs you can protect.

Legs were never my primary target but refusing to take a damage leg out would have be tantamount to throwing a match and regardless of what game you play that is not acceptable. For that matter I am trying to remember a decent pilot that would give you a leg shot if it was not required action to achieve their objective.

[Bagheera]

Fl3tcher, on 22 June 2012 - 08:40 AM, said:

How long until they ask for a nerf on LRMs because you don't need LoS to use them do you think?

August 8th. If it even takes that long.

And a nerf to SRMs because they're too accurate. And lasers firing in a straight line without having to adjust for a ballistic arc. That's not fair either, nerf that too.

Oh, and while we are at it, let's just ask them to remove hit boxes completely. That way no one's feelings will get hurt if they get headshotted, or a weapon blown off, or legged.

(can you guys hear my eyes rolling?)

Legging is, and always has been a part of the BT game. I never understood all the QQ about it. Protect your legs, that's why they can take so much armor. Use terrain. And frankly, if this link is to be believed:

http://mwomercs.com/...devs-5-answers/

.. then it sounds as though it has been worked out.

Edited by Bagheera, 22 June 2012 - 08:58 AM.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Fl3tcher, on 22 June 2012 - 08:40 AM, said:

How long until they ask for a nerf on LRMs because you don't need LoS to use them do you think?

Exactly
Then jump jets cause you can pop tart

cause not sitting and absorbing the damage but doing something to avoid getting hit (like the guy in the trebuchet story might I add) is cheating

Edited by 514yer, 22 June 2012 - 08:59 AM.

[Fastred]

Bagheera, on 22 June 2012 - 08:54 AM, said:

August 8th. If it even takes that long.

And a nerf to SRMs because they're too accurate. And lasers firing in a straight line without having to adjust for a ballistic arc. That's not fair either, nerf that too.

Oh, and while we are at it, let's just ask them to remove hit boxes completely. That way no one's feelings will get hurt if they get headshotted, or a weapon blown off, or legged.

(can you guys hear my eyes rolling?)

"How about we do away with victory conditions aswell so everyone wins.. Don't want anyone dieing of a bruised ego." that said I seem to be in grumpy old man mode so I am going to go off to my corner and mutter something about "kids these days"

[B B Wolfe]

Fastred, on 22 June 2012 - 08:59 AM, said:

"How about we do away with victory conditions aswell so everyone wins.. Don't want anyone dieing of a bruised ego." that said I seem to be in grumpy old man mode so I am going to go off to my corner and mutter something about "kids these days"

I would too, but they won't get off my lawn.

[Rufus Jager]

Ive favored head shots to legging as nothing is more fun than hitting an alpha boat legger in the cockpit with an AC 10 and watching them scream NO FAIR

Edited by Rufus Jager, 22 June 2012 - 09:06 AM.

[Fastred]

B B Wolfe, on 22 June 2012 - 09:00 AM, said:

I would too, but they won't get off my lawn.

"Rock salt does the trick "