309 replies to this topic

[Egomane]

buttmonkey, on 04 September 2012 - 01:05 AM, said:

http://www.ign.com/w...ules_and_Skills

ok if you follow this link and scroll down to something called vision mode 4 it clearly states that, that vision mode will allow you to see metal through solid objects, i know it also says these are subject to change but if this is what is on the table then correct me if i'm wrong, but isn't a hill a solid object and isn't a mech made of metal?

this information is from the dev blogs themselves, well that is what it states at the top of the page. interesting that the devs have done a complete 180 on this, perhaps is is because of all the FOV fans constant ******** about it being unfair.
i'l say again so i don't get people up my arse about it, this is not my info so it may not be correct! correct it if it is wrong.

And this is related to 3PV how? You are comparing apples and oranges here.

buttmonkey, on 04 September 2012 - 01:05 AM, said:

and by the way i have followed the mechwarrior franchise since i was about 6 years old my older brother began buying the mechs and we improvised our own boards. so that's 21 years of being a fan and i still want 3rd person. i can promise you if i had the money i would everything battletech.

and to typhus888 im not 100% sure on the rules but in the board games (i was more into building and painting the mechs) im sure that there isn't a big screen in the middle stopping you from seeing your opponents mechs, if you were playing the board game and somebody sent a mech after your missile boats would you scream unfair and demand that that player forget that he saw the mech. you can see where the mechs are on the board from the start.

There are "double blind" rules for the tabletop. The only reason they are not used often, is that they need 3 identical game tables and a gamemaster. In MWO we have a server that takes care of the gamemaster part and a real time environment that takes care of the game tables.
"Double blind" represents the actual sensor capacities of battlemechs.

buttmonkey, on 04 September 2012 - 01:05 AM, said:

on a totaly unrelated topic what do you guys think about pilotable elementals/armor?

Unrelated topic deserves no answer!

[buttmonkey]

the fact that they appear to be considering a view that will enable sight through solid material means you will not need a 3rd person view to peek over the ridge of a mountain, you will simply be able to look through the top of it, if a ridge is only a few meters thick who needs to use 3rd person to peek, same applies with buildings so yes it is relevant,

im sorry if you cant see the connection between seeing over something to see whats behind it and seeing through something to see whats behind it. you said "[color=#959595]To be able to look over a hillside or around a building is an advantage already, because you can see your opponent coming, while he doesn't know you are there waiting for him." s i assumed you would see why the ability to see through solid objects would nullify any advantage 3rd person would bring.[/color]

and what you say about double blind rules may be true but as you said yourself they are not used often, so obviously rules can be bent or discarded depending on personal preference. and obviously when the double blind rule is not being used you can see all the mechs.

and if you dont want to reply to my topic on elementals thats fine im not gona qq about it, i just everyone commenting on some way off topic child abuse subject so thought **** it il get some attention for something actually mechwarrior related

it does not matter really how many times people argue over this the topic it will not die as you lot claim it already has, which is evident from the amount of posts on this topic, the only way to put it to rest is to have it as an option, pay money for the option of 3rd person view, as you can actually already pay money to get an advantage, we are doing it now its called the founders pack.

Edited by buttmonkey, 04 September 2012 - 05:17 AM.

[xZaOx]

Devs already said there will not be 3rd person. You technically can cheat with 3rd person, and if you want to be immersed, play inside a cockpit. Why is this topic still open?

[Egomane]

buttmonkey, on 04 September 2012 - 05:08 AM, said:

the fact that they appear to be considering a view that will enable sight through solid material means you will not need a 3rd person view to peek over the ridge of a mountain, you will simply be able to look through the top of it, if a ridge is only a few meters thick who needs to use 3rd person to peek, same applies with buildings so yes it is relevant,

It is not relevant, because we don't know the mechanics of MAD vision. The posted modules are just examples and subject to change. It is even possible that the Devs decide, that the ability to look through a building is to powerful and MAD will never be implemented.

buttmonkey, on 04 September 2012 - 05:08 AM, said:

im sorry if you cant see the connection between seeing over something to see whats behind it and seeing through something to see whats behind it. you said "[color=#959595]To be able to look over a hillside or around a building is an advantage already, because you can see your opponent coming, while he doesn't know you are there waiting for him." s i assumed you would see why the ability to see through solid objects would nullify any advantage 3rd person would bring.[/color]

So we have a "maybe" module we know nothing about and we a third person view, which is implemented in a few hundred games, for which we know pretty well how it would work.
A "could be advantage" and a "proven advantage" are not the same thing. I still don't see a connection.

I also find it amusing that you try to look for holes in the developers arguments to prove your point of a viable 3PV. Not working! The developers themself have said, that everything they presented so far can and probably will change over time.

buttmonkey, on 04 September 2012 - 05:08 AM, said:

and what you say about double blind rules may be true but as you said yourself they are not used often, so obviously rules can be bent or discarded depending on personal preference. and obviously when the double blind rule is not being used you can see all the mechs.

So the Devs decided that those double blind rules are the set rules for MWO and we can not see every mech all the time. Your point is?

buttmonkey, on 04 September 2012 - 05:08 AM, said:

it does not matter really how many times people argue over this the topic it will not die as you lot claim it already has, which is evident from the amount of posts on this topic, the only way to put it to rest is to have it as an option, pay money for the option of 3rd person view, as you can actually already pay money to get an advantage, we are doing it now its called the founders pack.

It will not die, because a very vocal minority brings it up again and again. It will not change a thing if you repeat yourself a hundred thousend times. You only start to get annoying. We have clear voting results against 3PV. We have repeated comments from the developers that there will be no 3PV. Why bring it up again and again, if most of the players don't want it and the developers will most likely not implement it for a minority?

And again: There is no advantage in the Founders pack! If you repeat that please prove it! You trade money against time and that is not a gameplay advantage.

You are arguing against a wall and fail to see it. I really don't know if I should compliment you for your passion, or feel sorry for you for your inabilty to accept a loss.

Edited by Egomane, 04 September 2012 - 06:03 AM.

[Bansheedragon75]

Rand Anthroe, on 03 September 2012 - 10:41 PM, said:

i dont know why everyone says it makes it unfair?!? if EVERYONE CAN do it then it isnt unfair! world of tanks offers 3rd person during game play and it is just as fun in both modes. I am all for 3rd person in any form.

Stop saying it is unfair!

/sign for 3rd person optional view!

You havent read a word that been said about it have you?
If everyone was in 3PV it would not matter, but if you make it optional it WILL give those that use it an unfair advantage over others.

I'll quote my previous post that explained it all.

Dragonlord, on 02 September 2012 - 06:06 AM, said:

It would not give an unfair advantage if everyone used it or it was 3rd person only, but around 90% of the players here on the forums dont want it and prefer the actual feeling of actually piloting the mech.

Here is a hypothetical situation for you

Lets say they add 3rd person view like they had in previous mech games.
You can then look over a hill or around corners to see what is there without hiving to expose yourself.
The guy in the other mech is playing 1st person and dont have this advantage.

You will be able to line up your shots and shoot at him the moment he comes into view without him knowing you are there.
Depending on the situation and if you are good you can get off 2 alpha strikes on him before he knows you are there, at which point he will most likely be critically damaged if not destroyed.
How is that not giving you and unfair advantage?

Or say you look over a hill lock on and fire your missiles without ever leaving cover, while the guy you are shooting at has no chance to fire back at you without further exposing himself.
How is that not an unfair advantage?

So dont give me that **** about how its not unfair.

And then there is this


This is a SIMULATION game, not and arcade shooter.
3PV does not belong here, the players dont want it, and PGI have said they will not add it.
You can stop begging, demanding or threatening PGI about it, they will not change their stance on it just because a very small vocal minority cant accept that its not being added.

You want 3PV go play mechassault or Hawken, and leave MWO to those who can appreciate the game the way it is.

Edited by Dragonlord, 04 September 2012 - 06:51 AM.

[abetterpilot]

I think it is stupid to create a game and not offer every mode of play you can. If you are a ffp purist what does it matter to you if there are 3rd person options in a game as long as you have ffp only games to play in?
Ffp only people please explain why you want to keep people from playing in 3rd as long as they can not play in the same game you chose?
Seriously, no one ever says why 3rd should not be allowed for those that want it, just that they dont want to play with it or against it.
As long as its not affecting you why do you care?

[Egomane]

@abetterpilot
Because there is no way to seperate the two groups unless you put them on different servers. For a game where everyone should be able to play with everyone else, this is a no-go! (not to mention the extra costs of such a setup)

As long as you can not seperate the two groups, making 3PV optional is the same as making it mandatory for competetive gameplay.

Edited by Egomane, 04 September 2012 - 07:15 AM.

[buttmonkey]

there is a very easy solution, if your peeking over a wall in 3rd person and there is a mech there, its not in your line of site so if nobody else has spotted this mech it should stay invisible and untrackable as long as nobody has actually sighted it.

its a simple comprimise but fov fans will not accept it they would rather force a no choice, no comprimise system onto all of us purely because it is thier own preference. seeing somebody over a wall is not as big an advantage as these people would have us think. it can be easily solved with a little effort and it would avoid this whole argument

[REDACTED]

Edited by Viterbi, 05 September 2012 - 11:04 AM.
Removed directed attack and offensive language

[Icebound]

NO.

Edited by Icebound, 04 September 2012 - 07:33 AM.

[xhrit]

I am all for it. Why?

External Tracking Camera (XTC)

Electrodes on the interior of a pilot’s neurohelmet allow MechWarriors to access an over-
the-shoulder tracking view of their piloted ’Mech, offering a third-person perspective of
the ensuing conflict and their vehicle.

Page 22, Codes and Procedures of the Warrior Caste (Mechwarrior 2 User Manual)

www.localditch.com/mechwarrior/mech2/mw2.pdf

Edited by xhrit, 04 September 2012 - 08:46 AM.

[Egomane]

xhrit, on 04 September 2012 - 08:39 AM, said:

External Tracking Camera (XTC)

Electrodes on the interior of a pilot’s neurohelmet allow MechWarriors to access an over-
the-shoulder tracking view of their piloted ’Mech, offering a third-person perspective of
the ensuing conflict and their vehicle.

Page 22, Codes and Procedures of the Warrior Caste (Mechwarrior 2 User Manual)

www.localditch.com/mechwarrior/mech2/mw2.pdf

Non-canon fluff text to explain a game feature!

[Jetfire]

3rd person makes no sense, unless you have some kind of non-canon hover drone flying behind you for some jenner to shoot down and leave you blind. This is a Mech sim, not a Mech arcade shooter.

[Bansheedragon75]

abetterpilot, on 04 September 2012 - 07:07 AM, said:

I think it is stupid to create a game and not offer every mode of play you can. If you are a ffp purist what does it matter to you if there are 3rd person options in a game as long as you have ffp only games to play in?
Ffp only people please explain why you want to keep people from playing in 3rd as long as they can not play in the same game you chose?
Seriously, no one ever says why 3rd should not be allowed for those that want it, just that they dont want to play with it or against it.
As long as its not affecting you why do you care?

Its even more stupid to think that every single game should cater to one specific group of players only.

And what about you 3PV fanatics?
Why cant we FFP purists as you call us have a game that caters to our wishes for once, why does everything always have to include 3PV?
I have yet to see a single good argument for why we should have 3PV, all I have seen for far are the spoiled Xbox 3PV arcade shooter crowd crying about how bad it is that this game does not have 3PV

I have yet to see a single solid argument for how 3PV does not give an unfair advantage to those who use it over those who dont use it.

I remember how it was back in the MW4/Mercs days.
Every game that allowed 3PV just became one boring poptaring fest.

There were no strategy or tactics involved, everyone just took the best Jump equipped sniper mech they could find and stoop behind a hill at max range.
They would then look over that hill to see where the other team was, they would pick a target, jump just high enough to get over the hill and fire.
And that was in all games that offered 3PV as an option.

Or someone would pick an LRM boat , look over a hill to get a lock, and then fire from the safety behind the hill with the other team unable to fire back.
And if they left cover to try and ogo for the LRM boat they would be killed by the optarting snipers before they could get a chance to get anywhere near the LRM boat.

Now tell me where is the fun in that?
Is that how you want this game to be?
because that is how it will end up eventually and it will ruin the game.

I have already given good arguments for why we dont want 3PV and how it offers an unfair advantage, I have seen no argument from you to counter that.
All I see are you complaining about how this game cant be played the way you want to the exclusion of all else.

The fans of the BT universe have waited for over 10 years for a good Mechwarrior simulator, so why cant they have that simulator which they have been waiting on for so long?

Why do 3PV fanatics like yourself have to come here and cry about how there is no 3PV and demand it be added for no other reason than the simple fact that you cant adapt to the FFP view of the game?


If you want 3PV, you can play mechassault, that game has only 3PV and no 1PV.
Or you can play MW4/Mercs, as that game offers a 3PV option.
MWO will not have 3PV, and no matter how much you cry about it, it will not be added

Edited by Dragonlord, 04 September 2012 - 03:49 PM.

[Typhus888]

Dragonlord, on 03 September 2012 - 03:08 PM, said:

Could you please be so kind as do use paragraphs and punctuations?

Your wall of text just makes my eyes hurt when I try to read it.

I dont understand why it is so difficult to use paragraphs and punctuations.

lol ok don't read my wall of text if you can wread a papperback book then why cant you wread what i said in that post, if you can read what you type you can read (the wall of txt)

I SAID IT ONCE BEFORE I WILL SAY IT AGAIN YOU WONT GET IT. IT IS NOT LOGICAL!!!!! IT IS NOT FEASIBLE!!!

NO!!!!!!

i could quote every thing in this topic that is left brained and makes sense to why there should not be 3rd person why do you newbie pilots
insist on this 3rd person view man up strap your freeborn butts into that cockpit and pilot the bloody thing,
stop feeding these freeborn stiner troll's koolaid i am a BT fan i played the tabule top game and still do
you 3rdies dont deserve this cool of a game you pull up the dictionary........wow thats all you got
like dragon said we have not heard a stabul arguement stateing why they should put it in 3rd person view
dont ruin a good thing, I plead to the DEVS to neaver consider it, so plz stop the verbal garbage cuming out of your pethetic stinner mouth's


MODERATORS PLZ KILL THIS TOPIC ............. plz

Edited by Typhus888, 04 September 2012 - 11:12 PM.

[Dirty Dawg]

I'm not down with a 3rd person view during matches, I think it would hinder immersion rather than help it. That said, I'm not completely against a 3rd person view at the very beginning or very end of matches (or after you get killed). But during the actual match, when you're active and fighting? No way.

[JagerWulf]

I say YES to 3rd person view for in game and mechlab, I don't remember reading any where were the devs say No never, I read they siad sometime in the distant future, which is nothing like NO never, it won't cost much to implement since it's already there, you can see this your selves everytime your mech dies or falls over.

[Punkioinapit]

Why... Really why the **** do you want to see yourself? Isn't it badass enough being in the cockpit?

[SakuranoSenshi]

buttmonkey, on 04 September 2012 - 07:28 AM, said:

there is a very easy solution,

There's an even easier one and it has already been taken. No 3rd person view; the developers have confirmed this to be the case and stated they have no plans to change it aside from considering 3rd person views a long way from the actual action, most likely aerial and even then with the use of modules or weapon systems that will take space and mass. In short, you have wasted a lot of time and about 6 pages and that's just since it was last pointed out that the matter was settled by a developer statement.

[abetterpilot]

when you say why cant the ffp purists have a game for them,and 3rd person ruined mercs i dont totally agree. there were/are still servers for both up and running, and yes i know the way mwo is set up is apples and oranges. i always felt that the view was not what spawned the jump sniping craze in mech4, it was how damn easy it was to jump and shoot no matter what the view and all you battletech fans know its true. you should not be able to smoothly jump and fire, and land without a real good chance of landing on your *** and damaging the **** out of yourself as easily as you could if you just stood still.
dont blame it all on 3rd person, people still jump snipe becaues its easy. remember, if i jump i added plus3 to my piloting roll lol not even thinking about if i am trying to fire at a running target while im jumping. i would just like to see any and everything added at some point from team kill of the hill, to real capture the games, how to do it i have no idea.
i understand we were all spoiled by being able to host our own servers/setups in previous mech games and thats just not possible with MWO but if i were a game developer i would want to offer as large an array of options to my game over the long haul.
all of our CYT servers are ffp in mercs so dont peg me as a strict 3rd person player, but i can honestly say i loved seeing my own mech more than any advantage it gave me peeking around a corner.
if piloting and gunnery skills played like the TT game for moving and firing i dont think jump sniping would have ever caught on. i could count on 1 hand the TT games i played where jumping was used for anything other than moving.
its the same fight over playing for points or kills, most of the old leets hated seeing small mechs out scoring them, it was the only way to translate the degree of difficulty i guess with a game engine that let you keep firing your weapons so fast. how do you translate you move, i move, you fire, i fire in a nonstop game?
they always pushed destruction style over team battle, they thought they should be able to run in an assault, jump, and 1 shot kill a dasher going135kph, they didnt want to hear anything about the game the pc game was based on, that was always funny.

The important thing is that we all love each other. I love you all.

Edited by abetterpilot, 04 September 2012 - 11:56 PM.

[SuperClone]

ITT - Stuck up mech role players / Rude sim snobs.

OP - I understand your desire for 3rd person. I wouldn't mind the feature as well. It will never happen with this developer and this community who will shout anyone down who brings up anything that might remind them that this game isn't real life.

Devs - Recorder mode, and/or 3rd person mode when spectateing. Yes please. You want streamers, youtubers, and commentators to be able to stream the game.