402 replies to this topic

[Bren]

Petroff Northrup, on 22 February 2012 - 01:23 PM, said:

What unit insignia is that on the right chest?

10th Lyran Regulars 'The Stinging Barflies'

BarHaid, on 22 February 2012 - 11:57 AM, said:

That has always bugged me when looking at the various representations! Loose's sketches are not that difficult to "read". Of course, I misread the original to have the smooth-dome as the front. I always thought it was a fairly sinister-looking feature, and when the first figurine came out with the "ninja-mask", I was a sad boy.
I'm glad to see that you chose not to tip the soldier hat over. And turning the side-of-the-head circle-thing into a monocle is an nice interpretation. I really want to see what modules make that "eye" work!

I don't think you misread Loose's drawing. I think the Commando is in the exact same pose in TRO3025 as the Victor (http://www.sarna.net...025_Victor1.jpg) and so has the smooth-dome face and rear-tiled antenna.

What I love about FD's rendition is that it pays homage to all previous interpretations of the Commando's head and face. This shows the attention of a true enthusiast and fan, and I love it.

edit: Commando image for easier comparison http://www.sarna.net...5_Commando1.jpg

Edited by Bren, 22 February 2012 - 02:41 PM.

[CoffiNail]

Aegis Kleais™, on 22 February 2012 - 02:42 PM, said:

TF2 silhouettes allow you to quickly determine the opponent (aka a "human chassis") quickly and from a long range. When too many silhouettes are similar, it requires the player to get dangerously closer to the Mech to determine the class, which is, IMO, a failure from a design standpoint.

You say that my fears are unfounded based simply on scale alone. But that's not my primary concern in and of itself. Be the Mech a 100T assault or a 25T ultra-light, the problem is that the Mech resembles an uninspiring human-esque look to them. Sure, I could look at a Centurion and Commando from afar and say "Well, it's too tall to be a commando", but scale isn't the issue; it's that they share too common a similar silhouette with one another.

This is where zooming, image enhancments, low light vision etc and your radar come in to play.

[juxstapo]

Hunh, aside from the Hunchback, this actually strikes my eyes as closest to the original of any of the MWO mechs.

I like it.

[SeDevri]

LOVE IT LOVE IT LOVE IT! one of my favorite light mechs i'm SO happy!

[metro]

lets not de rail the DEVS thread.

>salute<

[CloakRogue]

for the most part i like the non-huminoid mechs best... but this one just looks awsome.

your fellow mechwarrior,
CloakRogue

[ScrewCityChris]

This one will def be in my mech bay. I am exited to see how all the amazing artwork gets translated into 3d moveable models.

[ilikain]

Beautifully done, as other have said, this mech goes all the way back to CH:I for me... I have loved all of the re-designs so far, and this is no exception. The old drawing felt okay, just needed some cleaning up, and that is what it looks like was done. Very impressed.

So much hurt packed into a 25ton mech... Always loved me some SRMs. With the focus on city fighting, I can see why they chose this mech. Just like in the flavor text, if this mech can get behind someone, you don't need a lot of SRM ammo to put some serious hurt on a target. I would like to see some Assault players run around with this guy, that would be amusing to me.

As for the silhouette, easy recognition and humanoid looks... I have never had a problem with that. It is human nature to build things that resemble us, just meaner... and bigger... There is also something to say about a light mech that could be confused for another heavier mech. I don't want everyone to immediately recognize what mech they are fighting, without some experience under their belts. Enforced caution is good.

Mmmm... Indirect LRM fire + artillery... thanks scout!

[Waylandx]

It looks ok...

[Straylight]

I've never liked the Commando's look--like the Centurion I've always thought it was too tall and thin.

This, though? This is HOT. (and I'm not just saying that to keep FD from beating my *** even harder than he already does in MWLL. No really. )

I wouldn't mind if the hips were just a tad thinner, but the design as-is makes sense. It looks stable and it looks agile.

I'm still hoping for a Raven in the EWF-specialist niche, but as an entry-level Scout that's capable of laying down a LOT of fire for such a little guy, the Commando is a great addition to the lineup.

[Solis Obscuri]

verybad, on 22 February 2012 - 01:49 PM, said:

Can you imagine how hawt a Stalker would be done by FD, with the legs fixed (ie reverse rather than TRO wierd.)

How do chicken legs fix anything? They'd only work with a relocation of the hip actuators about 5 meters forward. Granted, the Stalker always looked like the ankle would need to rotate about 120º for it to be able to walk forward, but all I see chicken legs doing is taking an already nose-heavy design and putting it twice as high above the ground!

Aegis Kleais™, on 22 February 2012 - 02:49 PM, said:

This seems to be a subjective opinion though (as I'm aware mine is). The physical differences from a Timber Wolf vs. a Centurion are massive. The Wolf could not realistically be confused as being a simple human design. Bushwacker and Cauldron Born, OK, yeah I can see more of a lack in differences there. Personally, the traditional differences from the Ryoken and Uziel as well as the Owens, Jenner and Argus (respectively) are more than significant enough to easily call the chassis from afar; and I don't have to simply rely on physical size differences; they look unique enough in my eyes for easy separation.

I didn't say that a Centurion looked like a Mad Cat, I said that the bulk of the Clan chickens and Clan-inspired I.S. chickens all look pretty much the same - chicken legs, jutting cockpit in front of a boxy body, missile launchers in the side torsos, spindly upper arms leading to big weapon pods.

But if you can't tell this Centurion from this Commando, you need to get your eyes checked:

As for having to get close to identify targets, well, isn't that part of what makes BT work the way it does, the need use fast scouts to identify targets on a confusing, mobile battlefield where jamming/spoofing devices render long range sensors and iff devices suspect at best? Otherwise, everything works with the same issues of earlier MW games - magic radar can pick out a signature behind a mountain range 2km away, tell you whether it's a turret, a Clan Dasher, an I.S. Catapult, or a Schrek PPC carrier, whether it's damaged and to what extent, and whether it's friend or foe, so there's really no point in doing anything other than piloting the biggest, strongest gunnery platform you can and blowing everything away from beyond visual range. Having terrain variations, sometime short visual ranges, making sensors require a good LOS, etc. is going to make MWO a much more interesting battlefield and has to function properly in order for roles to make sense.

[Bishop L]

Excellent! Really excellent work FD!

Will definitely work out some way to get one or two of these for my stable......

[Alex Wolfe]

Aegis Kleais™, on 22 February 2012 - 04:37 PM, said:

If you don't think both those mechs LOOK LIKE HUMANS, then you need to get your eyes AND your ears checked. LOOK LIKE HUMANS. LOOK LIKE HUMANS. Drive that phrase home, cause that's the issue I have here. Both the Commando and the Centurion look like humans. Their proportions and silhouettes are similar to a human. A Catapault is not. A Timber Wolf is not. That is the only point I'm trying to make here.

Ravens, Mad Dogs, Longbows, these Mechs look unique to one another; they are the types of chassis I was hoping for.

Look like chickens. Look like chickens. Look like chickens.

Same deal.

Aegis Kleais™, on 22 February 2012 - 02:42 PM, said:

TF2 silhouettes allow you to quickly determine the opponent (aka a "human chassis") quickly and from a long range. When too many silhouettes are similar, it requires the player to get dangerously closer to the Mech to determine the class, which is, IMO, a failure from a design standpoint.

I beg your pardon? I didn't say anything about "scale alone"? There are many distinguishing factors at work here, most notably same one that makes TF2 classes clearly stand out from one another:

Alex Wolfe, on 22 February 2012 - 02:09 PM, said:

Although most of them stand tall, the head and shoulder shape is nothing alike. Don't worry, it'll be fine.

Aegis Kleais™, on 22 February 2012 - 02:42 PM, said:

You say that my fears are unfounded based simply on scale alone. But that's not my primary concern in and of itself. Be the Mech a 100T assault or a 25T ultra-light, the problem is that the Mech resembles an uninspiring human-esque look to them. Sure, I could look at a Centurion and Commando from afar and say "Well, it's too tall to be a commando", but scale isn't the issue; it's that they share too common a similar silhouette with one another.

Same as TF2 - not only height, but head and shoulders - the first place a person looks when perceiving a silhouette, to say nothing about hugely differing head/arm/leg/torso proportions. Most classes in said game (save Heavy) are roughly the same height, as well (not enough to aid identification at range, but the profile is unmistakable). Look at the basic head and shoulder shape on every single humanoid. Centy's shoulder guards are jutting up higher than its head and a crest, as well as unmistakable elongated arms, Commando has a huge bulky dome of a head, Atlas has the general profile of a gorilla linebacker, Hunchback... no comment. Dragon's torso/head section makes it look like a WWII-era fighter plane with grasshopper antennae.

Please don't make me break out the MS Paint and draw a huge red contour of each chassis... you've got to see it too, no? It's all a matter of proportions (which, incidentally, you seem to be blowing this matter out of, a bit).

Personally I've never had problems visually identifying any mech in games at range, even in Mercenaries boasting dozens of mechs, a good number of them humanoid. I've never heard anyone complaining about that, either. It should work out just fine.

Edited by Alex Wolfe, 22 February 2012 - 05:03 PM.

[Maris]

Aegis Kleais™, on 22 February 2012 - 04:37 PM, said:

If you don't think both those mechs LOOK LIKE HUMANS, then you need to get your eyes AND your ears checked. LOOK LIKE HUMANS. LOOK LIKE HUMANS. Drive that phrase home, cause that's the issue I have here. Both the Commando and the Centurion look like humans. Their proportions and silhouettes are similar to a human. A Catapault is not. A Timber Wolf is not. That is the only point I'm trying to make here. Ravens, Mad Dogs, Longbows, these Mechs look unique to one another; they are the types of chassis I was hoping for.

You don't need to go all caps.
Others and I have been reading you repeating the same things repeatedly and I think we know what you are trying to say. Right now, you are coming off a bit rude just because Alex Wolfe disagrees with you. What gives?

The problem with your issues are that they are subjective. You find them boring, I and apparently most others don't. You have a problem with humanoid designs, most of us don't. In fact most of us. actually I say, don't care either way, chicken walker or humanoid but saying "They look too humanoid, I find them bad" doesn't really say anything other than your personal preferences, that is all.

Now as someone else already pointed out, the humanoid designs are only 3 out of eight so I say and it seems you are much aware yourself, that you are jumping the AC20 quite a bit. Also, there are quite a lot of differences between a Centurion, a Commando and an Atlas and not just the height profile so again, I cannot accept your argument that they all look the same.

That said, variety is good and I'm convinced they know this as well. We are still about six months away so we are looking at another 5-6 mechs? Plenty of room for chicken walkers. So why fret?

[Datum]

Excellent work. I am most impressed.
I really love how this game goes all the way back to the Level 1 mechs and makes them cool again.

[Orzorn]

The design looks great, and also keeps very much to the original visions. I'm personally privy to the idea that circle on its face was some sort of eye-like device, and I'm happy to see that FD thinks so too. It also creates for a more interesting cockpit design, as opposed to the ninja-face that other designer's use. I think it looks cooler, as well.

[Hef]

So the deleted thread on the forums saying "Mech #7 is the Commando" was correct.
We must all be wary of the MWO secret police. Kudos to the spy getting that information 48 hours ahead of time.

[SmackZ]

Its a minnime lol

[Six6VI]

very nice design guys

[sadamle]

Aegis Kleais™, on 22 February 2012 - 02:42 PM, said:

TF2 silhouettes allow you to quickly determine the opponent (aka a "human chassis") quickly and from a long range. When too many silhouettes are similar, it requires the player to get dangerously closer to the Mech to determine the class, which is, IMO, a failure from a design standpoint.

All I can say is welcome to the battlefield.

Having similar silhouettes on the battlefield is what combat and the battlefield is all about. Using skills and equipment to determine whats out there is half the fun. I can't serious believe that your asking for all 'mech silhouettes to be so different that you can make a judgement on who and what it is from kilometres away. How boring. You may as well have some hovering text about the enemy saying 'Enemy. Shoot Here'.

On a real battlefield. How do you tell the difference between one enemy soldier from another. One tank from another. One fighter plane from another at range by just looking. You can't. Hence recognisance and intel.

Next you'll be asking for unlimited ammo.