334 replies to this topic

[The Bounty Hunter]

palebear, on 17 March 2012 - 03:06 PM, said:

I would be very interested in a lance-block list for lone wolves and a bounty system for all players.

Bounty, did someone say Bounty?

[Psydotek]

Perhaps friendly fire off, splash damage on?

Also a fan of making people pay for damage directly dealt to teammates. If someone runs through your laser fire and you damage afew armor points, it won't cost so much to repair that you won't be able to repair your own 'mech. If someone starts dishing out enough damage to destroy their teammates 'mechs, that could get expensive to fix.

[Hayashi]

Roh, on 17 March 2012 - 05:11 PM, said:

This is easy to address. You pay for any damage you do to a friendly mech. You pay for the repairs. If you do enough damage that it seems excessive you begin to pay for the repairs and a penalty. At some point the intentional tkers wont be able to afford to field their mech.

This also covers those ****** that aren't trying to tk you but are selfish douchebags that won't check their fire.

Real good idea here. Even if they create a new account to circumvent it they'd never be able to FF you in more than a Jenner, and if they try to TK you in an Atlas they won't be able to use it for long.

If we combine this with the statistics tracking someone mentioned earlier, like keeping track of the amount of damage they've done to friendlies relative to the amount of damage they do to objectives/enemies, then we get a combination of an ingame system that discourages them, in addition to the community blocking effect.

[Hayashi]

I 8 40 C00K13Z, on 17 March 2012 - 08:54 PM, said:

Just disable any team damage like TF2 so you can't really do much harm.

I get an image here of a Jenner getting in close and tagging an Atlas with a Narc. Shortly after, the catapults on the Jenner's team saturate the area with LRM-15s... and the Jenner takes zero damage hiding behind the Atlas because FF is disabled. Also, the Atlas can't fire at it since the Jenner, being so darn small, can hide in its blind spot behind its back where even its arms have problems aiming.

[Wyzak]

turning off friendly fire cannot work in Battletech, I am afraid. It works in TF2 because of the suspended disbelief there. When the game tactics call for you to light your allies on fire to make sure they are not spies, turning off friendly fire is a must. Here, turning it off entirely detracts from the realism.

Without intentionally becoming overbearing or pushy, I still think a system which deals all damage back to the attacker is the best one, because it doesn't require any additional economic coding, community involvement, or moderator involvement.

If you accidentally tag someone and damage yourself, the responsibility to improve your aim lies solely with you. If you intentionally damage another mech to the point of full destruction, those slagged armor points will come back to your mech, so your teammates can not become unhappy with you, but good luck finishing the match with a full mechs worth of armor missing. And obviously if you attempt to damage two team members to the point of full destruction most mechs will not have enough armor to sustain that and your own mech will be destroyed.

Now, if you consistently engage in this behavior, your teammates will notice you are not contributing to their success and then the community should become involved, but immediately absorbing the consequences of your own mistakes cuts down on a lot of unnecessary and potentially heated emotions, improving general teamwork.

[Torrix]

I'm straight out hoping that there is no friendly fire in this game. Seriously, 99.9% of gamers on the internet do not have the discipline to not shoot their own guys in the back even on accident, never mind the jackasses that will actively TRY to do this to people. They need to get rid of any concept of this and focus on building the battletech universe and working on the game, why have unneeded stress amongst players and then waste dev breath on trying to respond or justify having it? It's not worth it in any sense of the word.

By the way, anyone who's ever actually been infantry knows there is no such thing as friendly fire.

[Soviet Alex]

I cannot think of a single example in any of the dozens of Battletech novels I've read of Mech friendly fire. The only time it happens that I can remember involves artillery. So disabling friendly fire could be considered the "canon" option. Just sayin'.

[Dras Black]

Torrix, on 18 March 2012 - 03:07 AM, said:

I'm straight out hoping that there is no friendly fire in this game. Seriously, 99.9% of gamers on the internet do not have the discipline to not shoot their own guys in the back even on accident, never mind the jackasses that will actively TRY to do this to people. They need to get rid of any concept of this and focus on building the battletech universe and working on the game, why have unneeded stress amongst players and then waste dev breath on trying to respond or justify having it? It's not worth it in any sense of the word.

By the way, anyone who's ever actually been infantry knows there is no such thing as friendly fire.

You got a like vote only for that last line, it made me giggle.

[Itka]

There was a good system for taking away team-killers from the game in the old game America's Army. Basically you got points for every game you participated in and you got deducted points each time you damaged an ally. Also if you damaged them a lot you got docked for more points in a progressive way, and if you did it early in the match you got deducted even more points.

Like this:
Play a match: +10 points
Damage a teammate 50% of health: -50 points
Kill a teammate: -200 points
Any infraction within first 60 seconds: double deduction.

Then each server had a minimum score you needed to ba allowed to play on it. Beginner servers for beginners (and people that has done some accidential TK and needs to get thier points up) and more advanced servers where you need high scores to play.

This way if you play well most of the time but occationally shoot a teammate you won't get severely punished but if you constantly teamkill during tthe beginning of matches you will only be able to do it a few times before your scores are too low to play on standard servers. Then the TKer will have to start a new account and spend several hours being good before he can have 1 chance to destroy serious players experience once.

You can still grief but running into laser-fire on purpose thogh.

[3Xtr3m3]

This is a really good discussion (for the most part) on a problem I did not even know existed.

One question, I would like to ask is... What happens if I anger a team I wish to leave?

Say I join House Rakshasa. I decide that the leader mentallity/teammate style of play is not to my liking.
So I want to leave them and join their greatest enemies team to see if I like it better there.
What is to prevent them from "targeting" me with players willing to spend the time and money to ruin my game experience? If I participate in free for alls, they try to make sure I am the first to fall. If I participate in team matches, they send in TKers to do me in? Is there any system possible to keep a House leadership /Merc Corp leaders from making a players game life heck? Just because I do not wish to be on their team anymore? I don't know that that kind of control is possible, or if it is, is it wanted, or enjoyable. There is a lot to think on, and I don't envy those who will have to design, or implement a fair and level playing field.

[metro]

ok...everyone..........

1. Keep this thread on topic.

2. No mashing about with real world politic remarks. MW:O is no place for it.

3. No more personal jabs will be tolerated. Agree to disagree, opinions will vary.

Get out of line again....and I will be back and whack you all with my 'ceptor!

Thank you.

[Dras Black]

3Xtr3m3, on 18 March 2012 - 03:25 AM, said:

This is a really good discussion (for the most part) on a problem I did not even know existed.

One question, I would like to ask is... What happens if I anger a team I wish to leave?

Say I join House Rakshasa. I decide that the leader mentallity/teammate style of play is not to my liking.
So I want to leave them and join their greatest enemies team to see if I like it better there.
What is to prevent them from "targeting" me with players willing to spend the time and money to ruin my game experience? If I participate in free for alls, they try to make sure I am the first to fall. If I participate in team matches, they send in TKers to do me in? Is there any system possible to keep a House leadership /Merc Corp leaders from making a players game life heck? Just because I do not wish to be on their team anymore? I don't know that that kind of control is possible, or if it is, is it wanted, or enjoyable. There is a lot to think on, and I don't envy those who will have to design, or implement a fair and level playing field.

Well that first part (Making sure you're the first to fall) is just kinda life if they really have THAT much of a grievance with you, the other part is well, try to avid the ones you know are coming after you and thats really all the advice I have to give you. Drop with people you can trust and try to avoid "lone wolves who joined up yesterday" kinda thing.

[Torrix]

America's Army does have a good system to combat team killers, but I still don't see any good reason for even enabling it in MWO. There will be horrendous splash damage ALL the time. With the limited visibility from a mech cockpit (due to the cockpits in game not being like the ones in the books) your buddy might not notice you off to his side as he walks right in front of you as you let loose with an AC20 burst on the target he was about to try...but now he dies.

Trust me, you guys that for some absurd reason want this are not hardcore in any sense of the word. This is a game played for fun, and taking "friendly fire" out of the equation before the game goes live will remove one big potential headache for the MAJORITY of people who will be playing this game. There is NO up-side to having it.

If you really want to experience the fear of friendly fire, I suggest you head to your nearest MEPS, volunteer for 11B, and volunteer for a tour in Afghanistan. It'll be a much "richer" experience for you.

[Hayashi]

Torrix, on 18 March 2012 - 03:07 AM, said:

I'm straight out hoping that there is no friendly fire in this game. Seriously, 99.9% of gamers on the internet do not have the discipline to not shoot their own guys in the back even on accident, never mind the jackasses that will actively TRY to do this to people. They need to get rid of any concept of this and focus on building the battletech universe and working on the game, why have unneeded stress amongst players and then waste dev breath on trying to respond or justify having it? It's not worth it in any sense of the word.

By the way, anyone who's ever actually been infantry knows there is no such thing as friendly fire.

Agreed only because the moment it hits you it's no longer friendly, but that's beside the point...

Wyzak, on 18 March 2012 - 03:01 AM, said:

turning off friendly fire cannot work in Battletech, I am afraid. It works in TF2 because of the suspended disbelief there. When the game tactics call for you to light your allies on fire to make sure they are not spies, turning off friendly fire is a must. Here, turning it off entirely detracts from the realism.

Without intentionally becoming overbearing or pushy, I still think a system which deals all damage back to the attacker is the best one, because it doesn't require any additional economic coding, community involvement, or moderator involvement.

If you accidentally tag someone and damage yourself, the responsibility to improve your aim lies solely with you. If you intentionally damage another mech to the point of full destruction, those slagged armor points will come back to your mech, so your teammates can not become unhappy with you, but good luck finishing the match with a full mechs worth of armor missing. And obviously if you attempt to damage two team members to the point of full destruction most mechs will not have enough armor to sustain that and your own mech will be destroyed.

Now, if you consistently engage in this behavior, your teammates will notice you are not contributing to their success and then the community should become involved, but immediately absorbing the consequences of your own mistakes cuts down on a lot of unnecessary and potentially heated emotions, improving general teamwork.

Talking about suspended disbelief here, regardless of the gameplay merit of your idea (and I do feel there is some there), it'll require an even greater suspension of disbelief to damage myself when I shoot you. No damage whatsoever we can explain away by saying the laser wasn't focused at that point, the missile warhead wasn't armed yet... etc...

But to shoot you with a AC/20 in the back and have the back armour of my 'Mech affected... that's seriously some Melody-level magic (Fairy Tail reference here). There can be no conceivable way of explaining how my myomers burn when I hit you with weapons-fire.

Therefore, you probably need a better reason to object to the "friendly fire off" option than suspension of disbelief.

[TeaL3af]

Matchmaking so you don't have to play with low-levels + ban peoples accounts for persistant greifing. That way TKers will be stuck in the low level games no matter how many accounts they make. Also just fine people for hurting each others mechs and give 50% of the fine to the victim.

[HJ Maverick]

Sometimes team kills or friendly fire happen by accident like in the real world, heat of battle etc .. making it safe so you cant do this takes a very real world element away from the game.What I think would be a good idea is if a player happens to kill 3 team mates in a given hour he/she is locked out of the whole game for a 1hr or even 2hrs this will weed out the idiots and hopefully teach the offending real players to Consider his/her next shots before firing just my 2cents worth

[Aegis Kleais]

You guys forget that if you charge players for doing team-damage, then you make items like IFF jamming impossible to implement, because people will just be concerned with firing on the Mech whether it's a legit target or not.

[AdamBaines]

Miscreants......great word.

[SnowDragon]

I've always liked the game asking me if I disliked the TK or not. It'd be nice, if I was TKed, if at the beginning of the next round (or after a minute or so after I've had time to cool off from the shock and annoyance of being fried by a lancemate) For the game to ask "Do you wish to punish so and so player for team killing? Y/N" Y, they have to pay for all your repairs (Including ammo you've fired), they get a black mark against their name (Which would degrade over time, one per day would suffice, with a note of when the last TK was (So I can quickly check their profile and read how many TK's are listed vs how long ago they were, which would tell me quickly how much of a douchebag they are)), and on top of this, should that number reach a certain threshold (Say, 8TKs) They get forwarded to the mods OR they get an automatic 8 day ban (one for each TK)

In addition, one's profile should also note how much damage any given player has done to a Lancemate, to the same tune as above, a sufficently high enough number (or number of parts/acuators/weapons/limbs) destroyed or crippled would also open them for a banning. And these would be in addition to the usual reporting system. I'd also like to prepose a team vote kick, with a 51% team majority allowing the offending player to be booted from the server. (Note that this should only be for the teammates of the offending player, to stop the other team winning by votekick)

That's all from me.
~~SD

[Wyzak]

Hayashi, on 18 March 2012 - 03:31 AM, said:

Talking about suspended disbelief here, regardless of the gameplay merit of your idea (and I do feel there is some there), it'll require an even greater suspension of disbelief to damage myself when I shoot you. No damage whatsoever we can explain away by saying the laser wasn't focused at that point, the missile warhead wasn't armed yet... etc...

But to shoot you with a AC/20 in the back and have the back armour of my 'Mech affected... that's seriously some Melody-level magic (Fairy Tail reference here). There can be no conceivable way of explaining how my myomers burn when I hit you with weapons-fire.

Therefore, you probably need a better reason to object to the "friendly fire off" option than suspension of disbelief.

That is a very good point, there is no logical way a damage transfer could occur and it would kill immersion. I guess I was rationalizing it by saying the effect would only be noticeable to someone who was doing it on purpose (i.e., they didn't care). But of course with LRMs that's not always true. A stray laser might only turn your arm "yellow", but a flight of LRMS would really do some major damage to your own mech. And probably a few people might not even make the connection unless the computer spelled out why it was happening.