224 replies to this topic

[Pht]

Hyperius, on 21 March 2012 - 12:49 PM, said:

That's a strangely specific definition of an FPS. An FPS is basically a game that takes place in a first person perspective and you shoot at stuff.

Which would leave third person FPS games out... anything using an over the shoulder view.

I use the definition because it seems to be the only one that applies equally to all of the games currently called "FPS."

Quote

Everything else he said in the comment you quoted from was relevant and valid. Not trying to be a jackass just wondering if I missed the point.

The reason I mentioned it is because people seem to have some expectations of an MW game that don't fit an MW game.

[fearfactory]

If I'm in a Jenner and a Hunchback OSK's me with his Autocannon 20? So be it. However, I should have the ability to get behind him and OSK his ammo bin with a well placed shot. Works in the board game, why can't it work in the video game?

[Dlardrageth]

fearfactory, on 22 March 2012 - 11:47 AM, said:

If I'm in a Jenner and a Hunchback OSK's me with his Autocannon 20? So be it. However, I should have the ability to get behind him and OSK his ammo bin with a well placed shot. Works in the board game, why can't it work in the video game?

Answer would be: "people's attitudes". There will always be those that think they are entitled to their personal "I win"-button. Might it be vehicle/Mech size/weight, some type of weaponry or whatever. And they'll stop at nothing trying to prevent a game actually requires more brain than a loaf or bread has. Out of fear that they might fall short somehow. Not really a BT/MW-specific issue there.

And I don't care about individual skill/1337ness or whatever "trait", it just makes for bad and somewhat boring gameplay if the OSK is made too easy. Or even made a possible regular feat. Many won't bother with MWO at all, if with the right setup on the enemy side you can get OSK'd in the first minute of a match frequently. I know I won't. Better ways to spend my time than that.

[fearfactory]

Yeah, but when you play the board game and your pristine unit goes on the first turn from a gauss slug to the head?

Player 1: THIS GAME SUCKS OMG IT WAS A ATLAS IT SHOULD BE HARD TO KILL!!!11
Player 2: THIS GAME ROCKS OMG HOLLANDER RULES!!!

And for another scenario, the Atlas wins:

Player 1: LOL NOOB IN A HOLLANDER I SHOT YOUR LEG OFF AND KILLED YOU!!!111
Player 2: OMG LIGHTS SUCK

This is how MechWarrior 4 works:

Player 1: LOL NOOB IN A HOLLANDER I SHOT YOUR LEG OFF AND KILLED YOU!!!111
Player 2: OMG LIGHTS SUCK

*respawn, maneuvers behind atlas and alphas a few times*

Player 1: ASSAULTS RULE OMG HE CAN'T KILL ME
Player 2: *yawn*

*Atlas legs light again*

Player 2: SCREW LIGHTS

It may suck when you're in that Atlas, but think of how it is for that n00b who made that lucky shot. Why is it that this game has always followed the bigger is better attitude? This kind of game play actually levels everything out, because no matter what kind of unit you choose, you're still vulnerable to the same core weaknesses (Cockpit shots, ammo explosions, weak back armor, slow speed, low armor, etc EDIT: No matter what 'Mech you choose).

EDIT: We all understand that Assaults are cool and carry a lot of guns, but in BattleTech, they suffer from the same vulnerabilities as any other chassis. They should not be as invulnerable as they are painted to be.

Edited by fearfactory, 22 March 2012 - 12:19 PM.

[Steel Talon]

Heavy gauss slug should go trought light mech front armor, exiting on rear side, crushing every module in its path

[Gabriyel]

DrHat, on 20 March 2012 - 08:02 AM, said:

my view is this:

Suppose I am in a Warhammer and you're in a measly 15(or less) ton mech, and you decide to go toe to toe with me in the same manner as something equal to or greater than my size, or you simply make yourself easily available to my ungodly amount of guns (even if by accident or luck on my part)..sorry but you're going away, fast..very fast..and there is absolutely no reason it should be any other way.

I agree completely. Anyone remember Mechwarrior 3? Played on Microsoft Gaming Zone and in SL or any other league? Don't get me wrong, for it's time I loved the game even though it was a lag fest and bidding matches, but I shouldn't be able to take on an assault mech or any med+ for that matter realistically but did all the time because A) it was a skinny pole and very hard to hit was very good at figuring out lag/lead time and doing the lag dance c) fast mech.

What I hope to see and the dev blog gives me hope, is that assault mechs for example have a very slow turn radius, even rotating their top torso. The one dev complained about it actually, which means that yeah you're a one shot wonder as even he said he learned not to run straight at an Atlas and he learned to zig/zag very quickly. Which means if you're rocking the heavy/assault with multiple fire and throwing off their aim and moving quickly, you'll stand a very good chance of staying alive. It'll come down to who makes the least mistakes and plays their class correctly. If they can't deal and figure out how to pilot the mech class they're in and approach this game as any normal FPS they're going to die quickly no matter what class they pilot or how good their aim. This is a sim, and it should realistically represent the mechs mobility, size and weapons/armor and I believe the devs are getting the job done. I'm tired of FPS like Battlefield with heals, recharging health, unlimited lives and miss sim games like this or more realistic FPS like America's Army was.

[Gabriyel]

Calon Farstar, on 21 March 2012 - 12:58 PM, said:

I thought I addressed that....slow town the torso twist spee on larger chasis.

Another thought is to give all the recon mechs TAG and have alot of Arrow IV's sitting around to help out now and then!

I believe this is already in the game, recent dev interviews confirm it where they talked about how slow the Atlas turns/moves and then in another blog/interview I remember them addressing that the arms will take time to track/aim on the selected area. I.E. you can't simply pop around a corner and alpha on a specific area like a head or leg. It will take a little time for the torso and arm weapons to line up before you can fire and hit the designated area with every weapon on the mech. You could fire everything but the damage would be distributed over an area and potentially even miss.

[Hyperius]

Pht, on 22 March 2012 - 09:16 AM, said:

Which would leave third person FPS games out... anything using an over the shoulder view.

Yes it would because those are Third Person Shooters (TPS)

Pht, on 22 March 2012 - 09:16 AM, said:

I use the definition because it seems to be the only one that applies equally to all of the games currently called "FPS."

Not really. My definition works just as well.

Pht, on 22 March 2012 - 09:16 AM, said:

The reason I mentioned it is because people seem to have some expectations of an MW game that don't fit an MW game.

Fair enough I guess but just because MW:O is sim heavy doesn't make it any less of an FPS. Not all games within a genre are the same and they can vary wildly but that doesn't mean that they belong to the genre any less.

Edited by Hyperius, 22 March 2012 - 04:27 PM.

[Brigand]

MaddMaxx, on 22 March 2012 - 08:10 AM, said:

Would you post the "quote" you got that idea from please. I may have missed it in the Dev Blog you mentioned. There was talk of a "Free Look" ability but it didn't mention any relation to Mouse and Reticule controls. Thanks

Here it is.

Quote

In the center of the HUD there are two aiming reticles, a circle and a cross. The circle represents where weapons mounted on the arms will fire while the cross represents where all other weapons will fire... When the player rotates the torso’s pitch or twist, the ’Mech’s arms and their reticle lead the rotation while the slower torso follows.

Quote

Torso Twist Left and RightThis is done by sliding the mouse left or right respectively.

Sliding the mouse to the left twists the BattleMech torso to the left.
Sliding the mouse to the right twists the BattleMech torso to the right.
Pitch Up and Down
To change the pitch of the BattleMech torso, the player moves the mouse up and down respectively.
Sliding the mouse forward makes the BattleMech pitch downward.
Sliding the mouse backward makes the BattleMech pitch upward.

There's no way to slow down arms reticle without sacrificing control I think (exept adding third reticle that would show actual cursor position). So existing decision is the best option.

[Hanged Man]

I'd actually be fairly disappointed if one-shot kills can't result from the right weapon at the wrong point of aim. I naturally wouldn't want this to be easy, but it's a wonderful reward for a player who can outplay his opponents that well.

[Verithrax]

So yea 1 shot kills are great.
The problem I forsee are the match types like, team deathmatch it might not be the smartest idea to run in with a light where deaths count against your team.
That being said if the game type were capture the flag lights would probly be the preferd choice.
What I want to see is a open world er worlds where you can raid other factions for salvage and there are no caps on the # of players thats where i think a light scout would rock.

[cinco]

ac20 should be able to extend the barrel, load heavier rounds, and use more power...all at the expense of some other feature. heavy rounds could mean slower reload, longer barrel could mean longer turn rate, and more power could mean higher heat output.

it's gonna be great to see the first guy in a jenner get obliterated by a single shot from a long barreled, high power, heavy round sniper ac20 cannon.

Edited by cinco, 22 March 2012 - 08:07 PM.

[Kanatta Jing]

I am ready for one shot kills.

My melodrama is rehearsed and my tear ducts moist,

I expect everyone else to do the same.

[Carebear]

I never had problems with 1-shotting, it just exciting to play when you know you can be 1-shotted. It seems it comes down to different player type. Some people just want the fight last longer. Two different kind of group most definitely, pick your side. Rift was one of the recent games I played and god it was so passive, no-one didnt die, I grew bored.

Edited by Carebear, 22 March 2012 - 10:40 PM.

[Dlardrageth]

fearfactory, on 22 March 2012 - 12:13 PM, said:

Yeah, but when you play the board game and your pristine unit goes on the first turn from a gauss slug to the head?

Oh, absolutely. But how often does that happen? Mind me, I did write "if with the right setup on the enemy sideyou can get OSK'd in the first minute of a match frequently" for a reason. If that happens to you like once in a hundred games, okay, s****s to be you at that moment. But if you run into the same setups which do that every other or every third or fourth match, you really think the motivation to play on will remain high? I'm not so unrealistic to request it being impossible. I just would like it to be sufficiently ahrd that no matter your equipment and "1337 skillZ", it still remains a rare occurence. If it isn't, we could as well do away with 20 minute match time and have it all done in 5-minute rounds, and forget about minor considerations like tactics or battle plans. Here comes the cheesefest...

[William Petersen]

I've not read the whole thread, but I thought I'd mention a few things.

The 'biggest' weapon in the era is the AC/20. Most if not all lights will be cored if they take a shot to the CT. However, only *4* (I only checked 20 tonners, if there is a heaver version of a mech sporting LCT-1 style armour, they might be in trouble, too) will be cored if they take an AC/20 round to the side torso (assuming remainder damage transfer acts like in the table top).

For gauss it's much the same, as long as the shot isn't dead on the CT, the mech will survive. Both, however, would instantly take off a leg of 20-tonners and higher armour 25-tonners. Which would then let you mop him up pretty fast, denying him the prime defense of such a light mech: speed.

I'd also like to note that even by 3040 (I think, not 100% sure), gauss and AC/20s weren't that abundant and the mechs that sported them usually had some other major flaw (usually being slow as *mud*), and these were the only two single-location (LRMs do damage in clusters of 5) head-cap-capable weapons, except the occasional case of a mech with

[Fooooo]

William Petersen, on 22 March 2012 - 11:44 PM, said:

I've not read the whole thread, but I thought I'd mention a few things.

The 'biggest' weapon in the era is the AC/20. Most if not all lights will be cored if they take a shot to the CT. However, only *4* (I only checked 20 tonners, if there is a heaver version of a mech sporting LCT-1 style armour, they might be in trouble, too) will be cored if they take an AC/20 round to the side torso (assuming remainder damage transfer acts like in the table top).

For gauss it's much the same, as long as the shot isn't dead on the CT, the mech will survive. Both, however, would instantly take off a leg of 20-tonners and higher armour 25-tonners. Which would then let you mop him up pretty fast, denying him the prime defense of such a light mech: speed.

I'd also like to note that even by 3040 (I think, not 100% sure), gauss and AC/20s weren't that abundant and the mechs that sported them usually had some other major flaw (usually being slow as *mud*), and these were the only two single-location (LRMs do damage in clusters of 5) head-cap-capable weapons, except the occasional case of a mech with

Tbh , certain libertys will be taken with the game.

Most in this post are relating weapons DPS/DMG and armour values in MWO to exactly how TT does it.

The devs have not shown ANY armour ratings, weapon dmg values etc etc

Just because a AC/20 will core a 20ton with 1 shot in TT or even past MW games doesn't mean MWO has to copy this exactly or that they are...., for balance and gameplay reasons I have a feeling "most" weapons will be rebalanced and not a direct port from TT, same with armour values depending on what they do to weapons.

Thats not to say an ac/20 WONT 1 shot a 20ton with the right shot up close.......just thought I'd mention this isnt a direct TT port or exactly the same as the old MW's and tbh it shouldn't be.

So without any real info on this I would be hesitant to place my bets either way, and definatly wouldn't get worked up about it ATM (not directed at you William)

Edited by Foòóoo, 23 March 2012 - 12:06 AM.

[Trogusaur]

Really, why are we all still going over this? Sir Garthness ended all need for discussion on PAGE 2.

Garth Erlam, on 20 March 2012 - 08:25 AM, said:

I'm not sure you can one-shot kill here. We've had devastating alphas, but I've never seen a full-health, i dunno, Jenner say, taken down in a single salvo.

Edited by Lord Trogus, 23 March 2012 - 12:31 AM.

[Oliferklosov]

i hope they have cougers. a hvy with ac 20 wont be able to use it against me.

[Duncan Jr Fischer]

Oneshots happen in TT sometimes, and not only when you place AC20 to some 20ton light's CT, but also with lucky TAC or stray cockpit hit or critical. And it won't make me sad if we have all those in MWO. It's cool in fact. Light mechs were never supposed to withstand heavy hits, and if you get one - you are doing it wrong, blame yourself. And as for TACs or headshots, they are part of the lore and are cool too, only if they are pretty rare and there is no possibillity to actually make them on intent.