593 replies to this topic

[A11eycat]

Phoenixfire, you nailed it,
Only large scale engagements should have a ammo depot for each team, and it should be a risk like wwiiogre said, with live rounds potentially setting off a catastrophic explosion consuming the person trying to reload. But not so great that you could potentially die simply because you are reloading. 3-5 min. reload time sounds adequate

[Rejarial Galatan]

<groans and sighs> wwiiogre how in the blue bloody blazes of willy wonkas factory do you know this game will have less than what you mentioned in your opening statement? do you have some inside line to the devs that all the rest of us lack? do you have some psychic ability that gives you an inside edge on what paul is thinking in terms of what this game WILL have and WONT have? Like the rest of us, we can ONLY SPECULATE. Stop making statements like they are FACT of what this games going to have and not have.

now, while I agree, they SHOULD be at risk from enemy fire, that is about the only part I agree with you on. the rest? speculation at best.

[Steel Talon]

Phoenixfire, on 22 April 2012 - 06:50 PM, said:

Field bases only on the largest maps and with the full company vs company mech but only at base and limited respawn

Well thats how most "mini game" battles will look like. If u want to take planet, u not going to send a bunch of mercs.

[neodym]

Damocles, on 22 April 2012 - 04:58 PM, said:

I am not an energy boat fan.
I support no ammo reloads.

So what am I now? Still a "BoucheDag" or am I a "Jehova Wittness" or something else you can cleverly try to insult anyone who doesn't hold your opinion with?

100 out of 100 people when making reply to my post will claim that they really arent fans of energy weapons

we need way to refit ammo,all these years that I played MW3,MW4,Mechcommander 1.... there was always ammo refit,people who are against it are mega "BDs",every stupid idea have hordes of supporters but that doesnt make it any less stupid,these games I named was made of winsauce,the system is golden

Edited by neodym, 23 April 2012 - 03:12 PM.

[wwiiogre]

no such thing as a Mobile Field Base, those come along in 3059 and this game is set to a timeline and that means a decade until there are mobile field bays.

chris

[LackofCertainty]

neodym, on 23 April 2012 - 03:08 PM, said:

100 out of 100 people when making reply to my post will claim that they really arent fans of energy weapons

we need way to refit ammo,all these years that I played MW3,MW4,Mechcommander 1.... there was always ammo refit,people who are against it are mega "BDs",every stupid idea have hordes of supporters but that doesnt make it any less stupid,these games I named was made of winsauce,the system is golden

Yeah yeah, you're poop smells like roses and all that. If you're not even willing to admit that MW3/4 had some major fundamental problems then just go play those games again. In the meantime, I'll wait for MWO to come out and hopefully address those issues.

There is no place for ammo reloads in a 20 minute game with no respawns/limited respawns.

If the devs later implement hour long matches with unlimited respawns then, by all means, have reloads/repairs. Until they do, however, reloads are not needed, and ammo conservation is part of the game.

Edited by LackofCertainty, 23 April 2012 - 03:42 PM.

[Motionless]

neodym, on 23 April 2012 - 03:08 PM, said:

100 out of 100 people when making reply to my post will claim that they really arent fans of energy weapons

we need way to refit ammo,all these years that I played MW3,MW4,Mechcommander 1.... there was always ammo refit,people who are against it are mega "BDs",every stupid idea have hordes of supporters but that doesnt make it any less stupid,these games I named was made of winsauce,the system is golden

I agree, MW3 was winsauce, but you couldn't reload ammo during multiplayer matches in MW3. Once you were out you were out. Just like option number 1 in the poll.

[wwiiogre]

Rajerial,

My statements are opinion, based on what the Dev's have said will be in the game. Now what they have said won't be in the game or even what they havn't even spoken about yet. I have read everything they have posted here and on their own twitter accounts that they have made public as well as seen all the Dev interviews. All of that merely gives me an idea of what I think and what I think is my opinion.

As the Dev's have said this is a sim, you are the pilot and you cannot get out of your mech and your character/pilot will not have rolled up stats/abilities/feats etc merely can earn things in a pilot tree that then allows them to buy a module that is considered software you plug into a mech and can swap them between mechs. There is no rpg style character here according to the Dev's.

Also they have said specifically that MWO will be Mech vs Mech combat, that no other vehicles will be in the game and no AI. To me that statement means no supply trucks, no turrets, etc. No AI no other vehicles. They have said that there will be arty, naval arty, strafing, sat intel, possibly some kind of recon. But no AI units moving on the board, just effects caused by an ability of the commander to call in an asset that does not stay on board but effects parts of the map in just a moment (now that explanation is my attempt to describe one of many ways the Dev's could choose to apply the above things they have described.)

Also the dev's have described that pilots will work themselves up a feeding chain for better contracts, which is part of canon and lore and tabletop. Which so far the PGI team has tried to follow as closely as possible. the fact that I have played this game since its inception on the tabletop means I am familiar with all the rules and how those rules apply. I have also played MW the roleplaying game and every MW game that has ever come out.

Doesn't mean I am always right, merely helps me make educated guesses which are opinions and you can throw them out the window if you want to. So far PGI has not said salvage is in, they have alluded to the fact that pilots will receive bonus' based on how a pilot completes his contract and these bonuses will get better along with the contracts as a pilot progresses. They explained another process for House pilots and included the fact that Lone Wolf pilots will be on the proverbial bottom of the feeding tree since they will not be able to take advantage of the things that Merc and House pilots will be able to receive.

So based on all of that and many, many more things I have read or even questions I have asked that the Dev's answered, I give you my opinion. Doesn't mean that PGI won't change everything any time they want, and I expect them to change things they have said based on balance issues or perhaps being able to do more than what they expected.

The question Rajerial is, did you read this entire thread or merely jump to the end. Most of my responses on this thread were quite long, included the fact it was my opinion and not a fact nor did I think it was a fact. So please read the entire topic all responses and then feel free to pipe in with your own opinion, just be ready to defend it with more than just ( I want it so it should be so).

I have defended and explained why I feel it probably won't be in the game at launch, I have also said that it is not a mercenary contract if you don't have salvage. But if only mercs got salvage that would ruin the balance of the game giving the mercs a better money flow because the House gets salvage not the pilot with the exception of special characters which of course you and me and joe blow are not.

We are just pilots working our way up the food chain. But keep your high hopes that you can have all the salvage cause of your amazing kill count and in two weeks if the game is setup that way it will be entirely broken cause there will be no point of working your way up a skill tree and saving your money so you can buy that next upgrade or bigger mech if you and your buddies can setup games against each other and then throw them so one side gets 12 perfect mechs, then wash and rinse repeat and the other side gets 12 perfect mechs as salvage twenty minutes later.

Why would PGI have a problem with that? Wait aren't they trying to make money from micro transactions and if everybody gets salvage every time then what is it exactly is PGI gonna sell us? Mech Hats? Spinning Hubcaps? Golden Guns? Golden Ammo? Wait PGI has said vehemently that you will not be able to pay to win. Everyone will have to work their way up the hard way.

Hope that helps explain my position Rajerial, yes I know my statements are opinion, well thought out opinion but none the less opinion

chris

Edited by wwiiogre, 24 April 2012 - 10:40 AM.

[wwiiogre]

Rajerial,

I don't know anything will happen or how or why when it comes to this game. I tried to describe all of the canon/lore/tabletop rules regarding ammo loading in the field. In some of my posts I even wrote down where in the rules and which book it comes from. But like I said, it is upto the devs to decide this and if they even want to deal with it. There probably will be no magic ammo dropping support troops cause they say this will be a simulation of piloting a mech, not an arcade style fps of robots fighting (mech assault) etc. But in the end only PGI knows what they will do. PGI has said they want to stay as close to canon/lore/table top rules if they can.

Look at Mech Lab with real armor numbers, so far real weapon damage numbers, note they made a concession in damage over range with the fact that weapons will do full damage to max range then less damage after that. How they make this work exactly they havn't said, but they have said it. So I am assured we won't have medium lasers doing full damage at twice the range they say they work at in table top in this game like it did in MW4. I am ok with that.

So far it seems PGI has made the right call on just about everything involved with this game and each time they show us another bit, they prove that their choices were well thought out and seem to work as advertised by their previous statements. I am ok with that and trust they will bring us a great game that is balanced, sticks to core/canon/tabletop as much as possible as they promised.

That is why I try to give my opinions the way I do. I try to think how would I handle this if I had unlimited money and resources (best possible outcome), if I had limited time and money (most probable outcome) or if I just wanted please everybody despite the consequences (worst possible outcome). Then I think the question with those guidelines in mind, then compare it to what PGI has said and hasn't said about the specific topic. Then eventually I work up to what my opinion is. Still its just my opinion and has nothing to do with the game or reality or what PGI does.

I want ammo reloads in and I want salvage in. But in reality I don't think they will be in at launch, but who knows given enough time and money PGI may come up with a balanced way to do both. crosses fingers and hopes for this

Chris

Edited by wwiiogre, 24 April 2012 - 10:36 AM.

[A11eycat]

Go Ammo,
catapults, jenners, and etc are basically useless after two slavos of missiles, then what? Suicide?

[Dream Seaker]

has anyone thought of, like a repair facility in the map, for factions to fight over? O.o perhaps make it a kind of focal point on the battle. they COULD try to take it and repair themselves, but they could be vulnerable, ect....for the really large maps,12v12 or something. just a thought.

i've also been playing MW3 a lot the last few days, and one runs out of ammo VERY quickly and it can be difficult to conserve ammo, especially bullets. just saying, that's how it was in 3

edit: just some grammatical errors

Edited by Dream Seaker, 23 April 2012 - 06:08 PM.

[Reapsman]

Stop crying and add more ammo instead of armor or other weapons.
The reason I use ammo based weapons is because they cause less heat. It is nice to shoot non stop and not overheat.

Edited by Reapsman, 05 August 2012 - 07:49 PM.

[Wyzak]

Max your armor out. Pick one direct fire ammo-consuming weapon or an array of multiple missiles, then fill either of those up with enough ammo to destroy 8 mechs. Add 1 backup energy weapon. Add heat sinks to taste. Serves as many as are on your team. Hopefully.

A lot of people have been conditioned to play single player campaigns. At the risk of rehashing a point several have made, you really should only be responsible for destroying two or three mechs in an 8v8. Ammo management might get a little hairier in a 16v16 if that comes out.

*also the 4 hot drops mode will require you to plan for more enemies... sorry I forgot about that.

Edited by Wyzak, 23 April 2012 - 06:36 PM.

[LackofCertainty]

wwiiogre, please use some paragraphs, dude. I got about halfway through the first of your two massive text walls, before I gave up. I -think- I mostly agree with what you were saying, but it's presented in such a dense, hard-to-read format that I can't be sure. >_>

Edited by LackofCertainty, 23 April 2012 - 06:40 PM.

[neodym]

wwiiogre, on 23 April 2012 - 03:29 PM, said:

no such thing as a Mobile Field Base, those come along in 3059 and this game is set to a timeline and that means a decade until there are mobile field bays.

chris

mobile field base isnt only way to refil ammo..... dropships can land anywhere and refit ammo,hangars or these small red refit stations like in MW4mercs

I am not sure about this but MFB insnt just ammo,its also mech repair..... I am not for mechrepair in team deathmatch WITHOUT respawn.... even if MFB wasnt around,much smaller,cheaper Ammo Refit truck can be easily avaliable,refit ammo but no repair

Edited by neodym, 23 April 2012 - 07:17 PM.

[Rejarial Galatan]

Wiiogre, I gotta agree with Lackofcertainty up there, your text walls are bloody dense. I gave up on the first 1/4 of the FIRST one. I may come back to it when my head isnt splitting. and for the love of chocolate sauce, its REJARIAL. Srry, gotta police my own name XD

edit: spelling of a name

Edited by Rejarial Galatan, 23 April 2012 - 07:36 PM.

[mockingfox]

-.-
not sure if OP is trolling, or just really dumb

[Rejarial Galatan]

Oh, something that seems to be only lightly touched on then ignored in favor of the just conserve your bloody ammo camps. We WILL need a way to reload and repair. Heres why. Unless the Devs make HARD time limits on matches, which is fundamentally flawed and forces poor strategy and basic zerg rushes, the ultimate time of a match is gonna be determined by just how effective players are. There WILL come a point where the match goes into turtle mode because guess what, we all ran out of ammo and now are just runnin out the clocks. Face it, we are ALSO going to need ways of fixing our mechs mid fight if it goes into an hour + because of turtle tactics. SOME sort of repair/reload SHOULD be in. Someone once said: You can have the most beautiful, tactically sound plan in the universe, but thats all going to change as soon as the first shot is fired.

[Dream Seaker]

Rejarial Galatan, on 23 April 2012 - 07:36 PM, said:

Wiiogre, I gotta agree with Lackofcertainty up there, your text walls are bloody dense. I gave up on the first 1/4 of the FIRST one. I may come back to it when my head isnt splitting. and for the love of chocolate sauce, its REJARIAL. Srry, gotta police my own name XD

edit: spelling of a name

hope it wasn't you name! ^^ ;D

and ya it hurt my eyes just scrolling by, i couldn't read it :\

Rejarial Galatan, on 23 April 2012 - 07:40 PM, said:

Oh, something that seems to be only lightly touched on then ignored in favor of the just conserve your bloody ammo camps. We WILL need a way to reload and repair. Heres why. Unless the Devs make HARD time limits on matches, which is fundamentally flawed and forces poor strategy and basic zerg rushes, the ultimate time of a match is gonna be determined by just how effective players are. There WILL come a point where the match goes into turtle mode because guess what, we all ran out of ammo and now are just runnin out the clocks. Face it, we are ALSO going to need ways of fixing our mechs mid fight if it goes into an hour + because of turtle tactics. SOME sort of repair/reload SHOULD be in. Someone once said: You can have the most beautiful, tactically sound plan in the universe, but thats all going to change as soon as the first shot is fired.

do you really think there will be fights that really reach up to an hour?? O.o

[Motionless]

Rejarial Galatan, on 23 April 2012 - 07:40 PM, said:

There WILL come a point where the match goes into turtle mode because guess what, we all ran out of ammo and now are just runnin out the clocks.

You can't turtle if you can't shoot.

A11eycat, on 23 April 2012 - 05:51 PM, said:

Go Ammo,
catapults, jenners, and etc are basically useless after two slavos of missiles, then what? Suicide?

Believe it or not, exaggerating extremely makes it look like you have less of an argument, not more. Two salvos, eh? Might as well be complaining that 1 PPC forces you into shut down.

neodym, on 23 April 2012 - 07:14 PM, said:

mobile field base isnt only way to refil ammo..... dropships can land anywhere and refit ammo,hangars or these small red refit stations like in MW4mercs

I am not sure about this but MFB insnt just ammo,its also mech repair..... I am not for mechrepair in team deathmatch WITHOUT respawn.... even if MFB wasnt around,much smaller,cheaper Ammo Refit truck can be easily avaliable,refit ammo but no repair

We didn't need a way to refill ammo in mw3, and you say that's awesomesauce. So what gives?