100 replies to this topic

[Rollio]

lol this is laughable espescially with the screenshots given. As a free to play player I've not seen over 110k on a match since launch. Typically 60k for the the autolose that is trial mechs. You pay 2 win chumps don't have any idea how good you've got it.

[627]

Rollio, you miss the point.
Look at the screens, he makes 10.000 Salvage in the first one and more then 90.000 in the second.

That is before any premium bonuses are applied.

Don't you want that 80.000 c-bills extra cash? For a free player, this should be even more important because like you said, a founder/premium player gets his extra money with his bonus.

So especially You as a free player should be interested in making the most money with salvage.

[LogicSol]

Rollio, on 31 October 2012 - 11:21 PM, said:

lol this is laughable espescially with the screenshots given. As a free to play player I've not seen over 110k on a match since launch. Typically 60k for the the autolose that is trial mechs. You pay 2 win chumps don't have any idea how good you've got it.

Of course you aren't going to see much over 110k in a trial mech. They earn 80% of what a owned mech does and don't get salvage.
That doesn't change that you can get 200k in a match without premium.

[Lavrenti]

Just let me point out that people in a trial mech don't receive the salvage bonus, even if they win. For a new player that renders the entire issue moot.

[Corvus Antaka]

Putting an emphasis on letting the enemy "live", as well as giving a surrender option that prevents you from being able to cap / costs the enemy more cbills if they kill you, running out of bounds to retreat and steal the salvage if you can survive out of bounds for say...30-60 seconds...

tons of money in salvage...promoting this and making people more aware of the significant cash difference might be helpful.

funny how many people whine about not enough cbills, etc, but they never/rarely let the enemy live...just want that KDR and not an extra 100K+ per match.

[Johnny Z]

um post count +1

[627]

Lavrenti, on 31 October 2012 - 11:31 PM, said:

Just let me point out that people in a trial mech don't receive the salvage bonus, even if they win. For a new player that renders the entire issue moot.

Unfortunately this is true and i can't say that i think this is fair - trials have enough disadvantages.

But (I hope) free players will own a mech after all, and the, this will be more important and good to know (Hell, after my premium time ran out, i'm a free player when not sitting in my cat, so I think it is good to know and will try it).

[Bagheera]

Lavrenti, on 31 October 2012 - 07:47 PM, said:

There is no trial Jenner. Just saying.

There is precisely 0 (in-match functionality) difference* between a stock Jenner and a trial Jenner. There have been trial Jenners in the past, and there will be again.

Just saying.


* - save that you can earn xp in a stock Jenner, has regular c-bill reward rates and acquires salvage. If you make changes to the configuration, it's no longer a stock Jenner. Outside economic differences the two perform exactly the same in a match.

Edited by Bagheera, 01 November 2012 - 12:00 AM.

[Lavrenti]

Bagheera, on 31 October 2012 - 11:56 PM, said:

There is precisely 0 difference between a stock Jenner and a trial Jenner.

That's correct, but not the point I was trying to make - if someone claims they logged in recently and did well in a trial Jenner, then it calls into question their opinions on the trial mechs.

In any case, how often do people purchase a mech and leave it stock? I thought that most mechs were customised to some degree.

[Ran]

There's no trial Jenner. ô.o Trial players get a Raven, which is rather pathetic.

[Terror Teddy]

Vlad Ward, on 31 October 2012 - 05:02 PM, said:

Kill the Meat, Save the Metal.

Im not sure how much that applies to ALL factions though.

1. Mercenaries definitely wants the salvage.
2. House affiliated soldiers will be soldiers and fight to WIN, regardless of how much a crater is left of the enemy.
3. Fluff wise getting a reputation as a 'pilot killer' would have your opponents gunning to simply kill you rather than capture you if you ever get in trouble.
4. Disabling a mech without severe damage is possible and repairs don't have to be expensive.
5. Taking a pilot alive means RANSOM MONEY.

So there are pros and cons.

Ran, on 01 November 2012 - 12:00 AM, said:

There's no trial Jenner. ô.o Trial players get a Raven, which is rather pathetic.

Nah, not when all the gear is activated.

I just hope they get proper E-War suite on it though.

[I Just Ate Your Grapes Bro]

Except you've missed the point.... the problem isn't that you make money too slowly in the mechs as they stand, the problem is, it's entirely too easy to make money MUCH faster with no effort when people just suicide their trial mechs, regardless of how much money you make playing your *** off, this is a problem that needs addressed or others will continue exploiting it for a long time to come.... Hopefully the fix they have coming will help, but it is never good to see a company take the stance of harm the many to catch the few, changing the reward bonuses so that win/loss was LESS of the money and your actual performance was the major factor would do this without harming so many people that DO play by the rules....

[I Just Ate Your Grapes Bro]

Vlad Ward, on 31 October 2012 - 05:02 PM, said:

Okay

So, I'm kinda tired of seeing all these posts and threads about how "Performance is never rewarded" and "Everyone always earns the same average c-bills every round no matter how much damage they do".

Sure. That seems sound superficially. But I think many of you forgot that you're playing a Mechwarrior game. Mechwarrior games do reward performance. They just don't reward the same kind of performance that many non-veterans are used to.

The Battletech universe is a dystopia, coming out of a severe technological dark age. Working tech is scarce. Bullets, Ammo, even scraps of Armor are worth their weight in gold.

Does this sound like the kind of world where players would get rewarded for blowing up all the perfectly good armor, ammo, and equipment on the enemy Mechs? Hell no. It sounds like the kind of world that rewards players for killing pilots and saving as much of that technology as possible.

And it does.

I'm sure some of you have seen these pictures a half dozen times already. You're probably sick of them. Well, I'm kind of sick of posting them. But c'est la vie.

Examples:

High Damage + Low Efficiency = Low C-bill Rewards



Low Damage + High Efficiency = High C-bill Rewards



Note the Salvage bonuses in particular.

This is where performance is rewarded in MWO.

You don't get points for blowing the crap out of precious tech. You get points for sparing that tech and killing the pilot.

Kill the Meat, Save the Metal.

This is all well and good, but the problem is, if you had a suicide rusher in your game, he got the same bonus you did.... and the solution they are planning is going to hurt those that suck at the game as much/more than the suicide rushers. Rewarding individual performance better as well as having team rewards prevents this.

[Keifomofutu]

How many games are you personally going to get 5 kills and decide how a certain mech dies? This is as one-off an argument as there can be.

In your average game you are lucky to get 20k salvage instead of 10k. Maybe if you kept the salvage from any mech you killed(via your % of damage or assisted % damage).

[Vlad Ward]

Ehrithane, on 03 November 2012 - 11:06 AM, said:

This is all well and good, but the problem is, if you had a suicide rusher in your game, he got the same bonus you did.... and the solution they are planning is going to hurt those that suck at the game as much/more than the suicide rushers. Rewarding individual performance better as well as having team rewards prevents this.

If they started rewarding individual performance too much, my own Merc Corps would hang me from the gallows.

I run a super high speed brawling Assault (85kph and 15DPS in burst mode). I almost always walk out with 4-5 kills and top or close to top damage when we roll in a premade. That doesn't mean I contribute more than anyone else. Hell, I'm running and hiding behind buildings and humming 007 theme music half the match while our long range support dukes it out with the other team's long range support.

I just happen to be the guy who delivers the knockout punch. In a team-based game, I have no real interest in being overly rewarded for getting the kills and the damage when I'm only one part of a cohesive functional unit.

Keifomofutu, on 03 November 2012 - 11:10 AM, said:

How many games are you personally going to get 5 kills and decide how a certain mech dies? This is as one-off an argument as there can be.

In your average game you are lucky to get 20k salvage instead of 10k. Maybe if you kept the salvage from any mech you killed(via your % of damage or assisted % damage).

Maybe it would be easier to get people to shoot at the legs if someone made a thread telling people that they'd make more money if they all shot at the legs and left torso/arm armor intact.

Edited by Vlad Ward, 03 November 2012 - 11:14 AM.

[Athomahawk]

Krondor, on 31 October 2012 - 06:15 PM, said:

It's also going to be funny when you do finally get your new mech, you go out expecting to be l33t pwnz0rz, and still get wiped and end up with 100k repair bills because you didn't bother to learn anything in the trial mech.

This phenomena is known as poetic justice.

[I Just Ate Your Grapes Bro]

Vlad Ward, on 03 November 2012 - 11:11 AM, said:

If they started rewarding individual performance too much, my own Merc Corps would hang me from the gallows.

I run a super high speed brawling Assault (85kph and 15DPS). I almost always walk out with 4-5 kills and top or close to top damage when we roll in a premade. That doesn't mean I contribute more than anyone else. Hell, I'm running and hiding behind buildings and humming 007 theme music half the match while our long range support dukes it out with the other team's long range support.

I just happen to be the guy who delivers the knockout punch. In a team-based game, I have no real interest in being overly rewarded for getting the kills and the damage when I'm only one part of a cohesive functional unit.



Maybe it would be easier to get people to shoot at the legs if someone made a thread telling people that they'd make more money if they all shot at the legs and left torso/arm armor intact.

Yeah, and I don't think it should be all about the killing blow, one thing I DO love about the current system is that an assist is worth the same as a kill so you don't have people always holding their fire waiting for the killshot. However, implimenting more rewards and adjusting their value for difficulty would promote playing within the game to farm money, not suicide rushing (people will still do this then just afk for the remainder of the match) but if just showing up was only worth 5-10k, yet taking part in the match raised it quickly, that's what the majority of people would do.

Your team would benefit from having you around, and you'd benefit from being you as well, but the people attempting to exploit the system by just standing around or killing themselves and leaving would be out of luck, and the new players would quickly learn as their money went up from matches where they did things right, but was low when they didn't.

P.S. I do the 007 music thing too, that made me laugh so hard I literally fell out of my chair, glad I'm not alone.

[Odins Fist]

Vlad Ward, on 31 October 2012 - 05:02 PM, said:

Okay

So, I'm kinda tired of seeing all these posts and threads about how "Performance is never rewarded" and "Everyone always earns the same average c-bills every round no matter how much damage they do".

Sure. That seems sound superficially. But I think many of you forgot that you're playing a Mechwarrior game. Mechwarrior games do reward performance. They just don't reward the same kind of performance that many non-veterans are used to.

The Battletech universe is a dystopia, coming out of a severe technological dark age. Working tech is scarce. Bullets, Ammo, even scraps of Armor are worth their weight in gold.

Does this sound like the kind of world where players would get rewarded for blowing up all the perfectly good armor, ammo, and equipment on the enemy Mechs? Hell no. It sounds like the kind of world that rewards players for killing pilots and saving as much of that technology as possible.

And it does.

I'm sure some of you have seen these pictures a half dozen times already. You're probably sick of them. Well, I'm kind of sick of posting them. But c'est la vie.

Examples:

High Damage + Low Efficiency = Low C-bill Rewards



Low Damage + High Efficiency = High C-bill Rewards



Note the Salvage bonuses in particular.

This is where performance is rewarded in MWO.

You don't get points for blowing the crap out of precious tech. You get points for sparing that tech and killing the pilot.

Kill the Meat, Save the Metal.

.
Premium Bonuses do not count for people that didn't pay to beta......
.
After the game goes live, "THOUSANDS" of new voices and "DOLLARS" will drown out all of the Fanboi Elitism, and probably force them into a corner for all of their perceived arrogance..
.
Like I said months ago, get your licks in now, for soon you will be the minority, and just remember this,
"MONEY TALKS", and no obscure clique is going to keep MWO alive with it's 1980's BT technical mauals, this thing needs money, and there isn't enough of them do it...
.
I can't wait for the flood of new people to the MechWarrior community, it will help to clear away all of the stagnant debris that has been laying around for decades....

Edited by Odins Fist, 03 November 2012 - 11:28 AM.

[Shalune]

Shooting legs and cockpit is good and all in a premade pug stomp, but odds are unless you're ganging up on a displaced enemy if you try this after premade vs premade goes live you're seriously gimping yourself. Trying to do it in a pug is hit or miss and much like success of a pug now when queueing alone it's rolling the dice. (especially with pug LRMs eating everything)

Great info though. I'm definitely going to try this later on solo queueing to see what kinds of results I can get.

[Aeskir]

At the current point the game, kills its community, regardless of the effort.

There is first the MM which puts Atlas against Awesomes, yea sure
Than there are this streak cats and gauss cats and what not else
Than the premades against Pugs
and so on

I have a founders account but i see no way a new player gets fun out of this