176 replies to this topic

[Yokaiko]

BigJim, on 01 November 2012 - 12:01 AM, said:

The opinions of people who would get angry about you being a premade don't matter anyway, so I don't see why anyone would hold back from confirming they're a group.




I was in a match last night, when the opposition announced themselves as cReddit corp (or however you spell it).

I responded with "zomg! a premade the sky is falling!" in global chat, and bless em, my (our?) Pubs did the same - "you guys are ruining the game wtfbbq!!!1!", etc, etc.. -, basically everyone taking the pi** out of this terrible forum attitude that has broken out recently.

Warmed the heart!

We had a guy announce he had one ten games straight.

We chuckled and then I went 148kph Jenner all over him.

[Krivvan]

Academus, on 01 November 2012 - 12:06 AM, said:

Finally, I'm looking forward to the official population and matching ratio figures. OP's data point to at least 25% of all matches having a premade. If premades are indeed present in 25% of all matches, but occupy a significantly smaller percentage of the total players base, that will comfirm to my theory that due to the fact that pugstomp matches finish faster than normal matches, premades will drop in twice more matches than pugs will in the equivalent time period, therefore having a disproportionate effect on the likeliness of pugostomp.

Pugs are much more likely to quit a match before it's done and start a new one. Premades tend to wait until the entire game is over each time.

[elbloom]

Jman5, on 31 October 2012 - 11:21 PM, said:

I'm going to make a larger post tomorrow with more data points, but suffice it to say, I played 26 games and asked each game if there were any premades or friends playing together. 12 out of 26 games had people openly admit to pre-made groups. I only ran into a couple 8 player pre-mades, but there are a lot of partials out there.

in my experience 8 out of 10 games is pug against pre, 1 out of 10 i am on the pre side, 1 is really good balanced match taking some time.

[Ran]

Oh, right. I've almost exlusively run with at least two friends. My win/loss is currently at 49 / 75. Go go Trial mechs/first time players. To be honest, it probably would have been better if I wasn't trying to find the use of the Trial Raven for fifteen matches.

Edited by Ran, 01 November 2012 - 12:19 AM.

[Academus]

Krivvan, on 01 November 2012 - 12:15 AM, said:

Pugs are much more likely to quit a match before it's done and start a new one. Premades tend to wait until the entire game is over each time.

I concur that it will also play its part in the total figure, along with suicider. We'll have to wait until the data is out.

[Pheydra Sagan]

Krivven thank you for pointing this out. You are awesome my friend!!! Premades are not the boogey men that people are making them out to be.

[Arcturious]

Even if there is not a group you're up against, it is obvious the matchmaker needs work. I've had 5 games tonight, 2 of which were for sure against groups, 2 were questionable and one was definitely PUG.

Then there was this game (the 6th). I was just about to ask in chat if anyone was in a group, when the match ended. However someone just before match ended managed to get out "we're not a premade". However, you can understand the new players may not have believed it when they saw this:



So even if all these people were not grouped, as we would have to believe as at least one other person was not in a group. It sure didn't look that way to the other team.

I know matchmaker is due to be fixed, which is why I'm waiting and not posting. However I thought I'd point out that people aren't imagining a problem. For every person with good luck that faces only 1 in 20 groups, there is another that faces 19 out of 20. All it takes is a handful of those 19-20 players to come to the forums. The simple fact is this should never happen, and it won't when matchmaker is fixed.

Sadly we'll have to live with current borked matchmaker for the meantime. To new players - Don't give up. It is going to change in just 2-3 short weeks! Keep honing your skills till then, and you won't regret it.

[Nik Van Rhijn]

First, excellent post Krivvan,
Due to the times I play I rarely see full 8 mech"premades". I quite often see 8-0 to 8-3 wins (for both sides). One common factor is the number of non founders, particularly in trial mechs on a side. The other is that there is often a small group of co-ordinated players (whether on TS or not) that focus fire opponents.and loosing a few mechs early on is often enough to tilt the balance.
The other thing is that a single good pilot in a Jenner is all it can take in a PUG to tilt the balance, especially if a few others back him up and take the advantage offered.
In the present state of the game skill, experience and a mech optimised to your playstyle will all make a big difference, especially against newcomers in trial mechs. I am not a great pilot and have a lousy PC but even at 10fps I can get kills and plenty of assists in my LRM Hunchie when PUGing given a few others who know what they are doing on the team.
I await the changes to MM with interest but like many others have already said, people will keep complaining, no matter what the facts, with a decent MM being months away on their present schedule. Hopefully we will still be getting new blood by then and they won't have come, been stomped and left.

[FrostPaw]

For me the question isn't if premade teams exist, it's why they are not transparent. Why do you have to ask? why doesn't the Tab screen reveal who is teamed up before the match is created?

Could it be because PGI know that if they reveal that information players will drop games to avoid them? if this is the case, that's acknowledgment of a problem. When you need to hide that information, that says all that needs to be said about how balanced the match making system is.

[Squidhead Jax]

Lavrenti, on 31 October 2012 - 08:17 PM, said:

The thing is that better communication is a force multiplier, independent of player skill. A PUG that can't use VOIP is likely to get stomped by a group that does, even if all the mechs and skill levels are the same. So skill isn't the only determining factor. Personally I think that the phases will be a day late and a dollar short, they won't completely fix the premade problem since it seems even a 4-man premade will wipe the floor with 8 randoms. Better VOIP and command tools might actually do more good than the phases.

While this is true, listening and giving a crap are much bigger force multipliers, which is why premades - which tend to QC those factors out by their very nature - tend to have a fairly consistent advantage over PUG opposition, while PUG v PUG is something of a crapshoot unless you have the force of charisma to get your PUG working consistently.

Phase 3 - taking records into account in matching, and tacking on an extra factor for being grouped - is the only one of the phases that'll help that, though.

Edited by Squidhead Jax, 01 November 2012 - 03:31 AM.

[FelixBlucher]

Quite a good collection of data. From what I understand, you need at least 30 samples to get a general idea of the statistics, then everything above that just makes it clearer.

[Athurio]

When I PUG, I normally see all sorts of inanity going on my team. 5 usually run off to all corners of the map completely unsupported, leaving what I assume to be other team-oriented members and myself to *facepalm* and try to figure out how to make the match not a total wash.

This "Rambo" mentality needs to die, quickly, if you want your PUG to stand a chance. Your lone, unsupported, centurion is not going to be able to take out that founders Atlas and his Gausscat buddy all on your lonesome, so stick with your lance-mates.

There are a good amount of experienced players that Lone Wolf it regularly, and they are more than willing to provide a strategy via the chat, but most of them have stopped, because so few are even willing to listen.

[RedHairDave]

Vassago Rain, on 31 October 2012 - 11:46 PM, said:

There are way more of them than your numbers suggest. They don't tell you they are, because they know they're ruining things for the playerbase as a whole right now.

there just arent, there is likely less. Garth confirmed it. all in the heads of puggers

[Ronin13m]

I have been avoiding posting in these topics but I find it funny that when these topics come up every one says get on the Teamspeak server it is free and posted on the forums........ Well how do you get the new players that just downloaded the game to come on the forums. Most probably did what I did at first and that was load into a game to try it out the minute it finished downloading. Since the launcher does not state how ingame chat is handled or that there is a teamspeek server or how to activate the C3 and then get in the propper room to be able to talk with your team it is almost impossible.

Most multiplayer team games have people that are in premades or using voip. I know a buddy of mine that we played mass effect 3 multiplayer with the too of us having an open mike to each other but have to press a button to access the team chat that was built int to the game as the game was designed for a team of 4.

In mechwarrior we do not have an active comunication system with a PUG group. Other then typing in the chat box which takes time and can not be done while under fire.

Now I would also say that any team that is using a voip system is classified as a premaid even if they are not a corp. I have been on a few well fought fights 5-8 or 8-5. I know that even a team of 2 in a group can drasticaly effect the out come of the game.

[EarthenMight]

Arcturious, on 01 November 2012 - 01:33 AM, said:

Taking it off-topic, but am I the only one that noticed it was Founders vs. Non-paying? So that means it was a mix of 7 customized and 1 trial vs. 5 trial and 3 customized with bad results. All did damage so they all tried (how well they tried can not be determined.)

[Barnaby Jones]

Krivvan, on 01 November 2012 - 12:15 AM, said:

Pugs are much more likely to quit a match before it's done and start a new one. Premades tend to wait until the entire game is over each time.

This is the best indicator (not proof, mind you) of a premade, aside from identical tags or volunteering the info in chat IMO.

[CCC Dober]

Yokaiko, on 01 November 2012 - 12:04 AM, said:

Nope, that is entirely dependant on your machine, I watch everyone load in every game I play. People with slow comuters are Crap connection may take the entire waiting period.

Hell I've seen a guy I dropped with no actually connect until after the waiting period.

You wouldn't think that I didn't account for this already, would you?
It's a pattern and you can try to nope your way around it, but when something like this happens you can't help but take notice.

Unless you do the pug stomping and don't care at all. Oh, but you care for your bad rep, which perfectly explains why you are here taking a dump on things that make more sense than your average 'droppings'. Do me a favor and pug stomp some more. 'Atta boy. Things will just take care of themselves, you'll see.

[Ghogiel]

I get premade vs pug 9/10. the tenth is premade v premade. See what I did there?

[Ornonge]

Usually we (12th DG) announce ourselfs, if we play with more than 4 guys premade, so the opponent will do its best and not get disheartened, if they were to loose. It was against a coordinated group afterall.

For the guys raging against the Goons: They are actually nice, reasonable and skilled people. Played a few maches against them and am always happy to see them, cause i can expect a good fight whenever they are around. Hope to see them again, soon.

EDIT: To reply to the topic (forgot about that): Can't actually tell how many premades i encounter, since lots don't announce themselves. Would be nice if more did that.

Edited by Ornonge, 01 November 2012 - 05:09 AM.

[Yokaiko]

CCC Dober, on 01 November 2012 - 05:02 AM, said:

You wouldn't think that I didn't account for this already, would you?
It's a pattern and you can try to nope your way around it, but when something like this happens you can't help but take notice.

Unless you do the pug stomping and don't care at all. Oh, but you care for your bad rep, which perfectly explains why you are here taking a dump on things that make more sense than your average 'droppings'. Do me a favor and pug stomp some more. 'Atta boy. Things will just take care of themselves, you'll see.

I pug at least a third of the time.....and even then when I do get to sit down and grind out money you expect me to stack the deck against myself. Hold your ******* breath buddy.

The frigging whiners wanted the class for class drop limits. You got it, don't complain. It USED to be that you could build a fast team and go right around all of the Steiner scouts, and/or pick off the low hanging fruit as you went. I used to build teams specifically around this idea.

Everyone wanted weight for weight, well you got it and the odds of teams getting other teams dropped astronomically because there is a 4,096:1 chance of another team having the same composition as you do. Unless you get with another gang and set your groups up identically (and it happens).

So careful what you wish for.

So if you expect me to try to heard Rambo's which only works about 1/3 of the time you have another thing coming. There is no single player mode in this game and I refuse to treat it as such.


....oh and you think I care about my rep? LOL You haven't read into many of my posts.

Edited by Yokaiko, 01 November 2012 - 05:15 AM.