769 replies to this topic

[Long Draw]

He didn't say if he was using artemis though. I'll try it out and post if there indeed has been a server-side balancing.

[Redbull102]

Used NO artemis IV.

Felt like it was before artemis introduction patch + the minor damage nerf ( 2.0 to 1.7 ).

Would be happy if you could confirm that there was a change. Not that I was only lucky :/

Best wishes
Redbull102

Edited by Redbull102, 15 November 2012 - 04:48 PM.

[SirLANsalot]

LRM's are fine on damage but there spread was reduced as well with the hotfix. One or the other would of been fine (reduce damage OR reduce spread) but not both and as such they got overnerfed.

Doing 1.7 damage is good, but there spread needs to be back to the way it was, and then artimis becomes very good and TAG adds even more.

OR put the damage back to 2.0.



One or the other, not both, PGI needs to not repeat what CCP dose very well, and needs to learn the art of fine tuning nerfs/buffs. Basically don't be a kid in a china shop with a baseball bat when it comes to nerfs.

[Asmosis]

This poll is horribly lopsided in its options.

"LRM's are fine" is my vote.

[LtPoncho]

Dimento Graven, on 14 November 2012 - 11:38 AM, said:

No, here's what gauss CAN do:

A. A duel wielding gauss 'mech can core a majority of 'mechs in 2 or 3 full salvo's, absolutely kill them in 2 salvos with head shots.
B. A gauss carrier can shout well beyond 1000 meters. If their computer can support high enough video settings, they can fire at targets that can't see them at all. Much like an LRM 'mech.
C. A gauss carrier can shoot well beyond 1000 meters without the assistance of a second 'mech. LRM's require TWO 'mechs for 'hidden' indirect file. Most people, actually more accurately, most PUGS are incapable of that level of cooperation, even with C3...
D. A gauss ammo does not explode when hit.
E. A gauss cannon generates no heat.
F. A gauss weapon, like other pinpoint weapons can take advantage and be assisted by Crysis engine aimbot hacks. LRM's/SRM's are not improved with those.
G. As soon as the target is under the targeting reticule, a gauss round can be shot and hit nearly instantly, delivering the full possible damage to target. LRMs, no.
H. Gauss are not affected by any AMS system, not even clustered AMS has any affect on them.
I. Gauss do not have a 'minimum' range that I am aware of (I can't remember and can't go look at the moment, so I fully admit I might be wrong on this one)

The only limiting factors a gauss weapon has:

A. Without Crysis engine aimbot hacks they require skill to use.
B. LOS (but range is not much of a factor)
C. Limited ammo, but since killing a mech with gauss is possible in so few rounds, having lots of ammo isn't as much of a neccessity.
D. The gauss weapon is large (but so is an AC/20 or LRM15/20)
E. Has a rather long reload time (as does the AC/20 and larger LRMs)

Really, that's about all I can think of on that, but to me, it seems that gauss should have been a higher priority at 'adjustment' more so than LRM improvements that were implemented without the balancing ECM add-ons.

If they implement ECM without enhancing LRMs back to what they were prior to the hotfix, LRMs will TRULY be completely useless, as it won't cost heavy and assault 'mechs much to toss one in, and even most mediums could do it without too much sacrifice, and heck isn't the Raven, a light 'mech, specifically designed for ECM too?

Excellent post mate - great analytics. You've got to appreciate what you bring to this community.

[CrackyOxide]

I really feel that damage nerfs in general are a bad choice for a weapon like the LRM, regardless of circumstances.

If it's hitting too hard, nerf the spread, nto damage, that way you don't inadvertantly nerf TAG/NARC as well.

[x Marder x]

How about giving LRMs with Artemis the option of a direct attack and a top down mode?(more buttons to press for sim fans more versatile upgrade)
Direct attack- Good for medium range attacks follows target good against closing in scouts and mediums(some kind of MRM). On long range targets it cant follow any more (fuel expired just drifts until they explode)
Top down - Good for long range fly’s high and drifts on the head of the target or try’s to has a little room to maneuver to hit the target but its useless on medium range´s. Good versus assault and heavy class.
Useless on close range like always.

[Tiri]

When you see how LRM are not so useful against a bunch of normal players (and without the ECM active), they will be completely useless when used against good players.

They are just bad right now:
- if you have anything between you and your target, regardless of distance, height and form, it will crash into it.
- you need approximately 200-300 missiles to kill a light who is average (not too fast and not too good), and at least 500-600 to deal great damage on a heavy or assault.
- their accuracy is mostly based on luck: some volley will deal 0-1%, some 3-4%.

When you compare a A1-C1 LRM boat with 2000+ missiles, lots of HS and a bad engine if he wants to be useful with a Gauss-K2 who just needs 2 Gauss and ammos if he wants to kill most of the mechs in 2-3 shots (less if he's really good at sniping), there is definitely a problem.

Leave them as they were pre-Artemis update. They are far easier to get rid of than a Gauss Cata.

[Redbull102]

Sorry was a false alarm.

Tried LRMs with artemis IV today and did with 1000 missiles only 180 damage.
Had a clear line of sight to an enemy cent at ~380meter.

LRMs are broken, must have had just a few lucky games yesterday,

Best wishes from a
sad Redbull102

Edited by Redbull102, 16 November 2012 - 09:29 AM.

[warp103]

LtPoncho, on 15 November 2012 - 05:31 PM, said:

Excellent post mate - great analytics. You've got to appreciate what you bring to this community.

second this

[LynxFury]

Don't waste your ammo on lights. I'm sort of glad they can avoid most of the LRM damage--I think it's perfect.

Against big boys during their "sprints" between buildings, when they move forward on a ridge to take a shot or just trying to close, LRMS still tear things up. The only thing I'd change is giving them a really tiny about of damage inside inside 180m to represent kinetic impact damage.

[warp103]

WTF is this
LRM/SRM/SSRM/ARTEMIS

• Artemis is fine where it is at the moment.
  
• SRMs are fine where they are at the moment.
  
• SSRMs will spread damage across LT,CT,RT instead of always just hitting CT. On moving targets, limbs will be hit as well.
  
• LRMs will get a 0.1 damage buff.

.1 lol and the spreads are the same. the DEV do not have a F ucking clue. there are video up the yang and it only at 0.7. So .1 to make it .8 with the .1buff lol


Sorry but These guys neft the hell out of it and give .1 is a slap in the face
No talk of the spread and they say the Artemis is good.Hell both of my video have artemis and others do to it like throwing rocks.


Oh and just a note guass will be more easy destroyed.

Edited by warp103, 16 November 2012 - 02:42 PM.

[Long Draw]

Okay okay, lets see where the change gets us first. If we're happy with the result, what difference does the number change mean?

[Long Draw]

Please refer to the command chair forum section and at the bottom of the list of threads you find the current issues they are working on. LRMs are mentioned in there along with other weapons being balanced.

[warp103]

Long Draw, on 16 November 2012 - 05:42 PM, said:

Okay okay, lets see where the change gets us first. If we're happy with the result, what difference does the number change mean?

You miss the point, a buff of .1 not going to do jack when you jacked with spread, damage, path.

[Urban UK]

They got to be careful, balance a it a little bit at a time, they cant let lrms get like they where on that nasty few days again, it ruined the game for me at least

I'm really enjoying things as they are atm, had a few nice long fights at various ranges, without getting spammed by 0 skill lrm users

I'm worried the ssrm nerf will make lights a bit too powerful though, It can be tricky to get those jenners atm
using normal weaps

Edited by Urban UK, 17 November 2012 - 08:23 AM.

[SpritZzz]

Urban UK, on 17 November 2012 - 08:20 AM, said:

They got to be careful, balance a it a little bit at a time, they cant let lrms get like they where on that nasty few days again, it ruined the game for me at least

I'm really enjoying things as they are atm, had a few nice long fights at various ranges, without getting spammed by 0 skill lrm users

I'm worried the ssrm nerf will make lights a bit too powerful though, It can be tricky to get those jenners atm
using normal weaps

well guess they should have thought about that before they made a huge nerf to the lrm in the first place i mean they changed the path, the spread and the damage all at once!!!
that is not a way to tweek/balance things ingame. What they should have done was to change path first, and gotten it to where that worked as intended, then moved on to the spread and perfectet that, and finally done the damage tweeking.

that way they would have controlled the tweeks and all would have been happy.

[Maleki]

Meh, they didn't want their gauss domination ruined. Really ****** things up when the guass cat swarm couldn't stomp as easily without lrm suppresion fire. Now they litterly can walk out and finger every missle launched as they know their armor will hold out reguardless of the drop. Mine sure has. I used to use cover all the time and maybe took a volley of those actually good LRMs to my armor. Now I scratch my nose a bit after 200-300 of them and maybe ponder cover once my armor starts to actually take damage.

So, I traded my LRM build off for now and brought out the PPC's. Theyre kinda fun. Its rather funny when you headshot a light and it goes spinning.

[Dimento Graven]

Urban UK, on 17 November 2012 - 08:20 AM, said:

They got to be careful, balance a it a little bit at a time, they cant let lrms get like they where on that nasty few days again, it ruined the game for me at least

I'm really enjoying things as they are atm, had a few nice long fights at various ranges, without getting spammed by 0 skill lrm users

I'm worried the ssrm nerf will make lights a bit too powerful though, It can be tricky to get those jenners atm
using normal weaps

Oh yeah 'balance a little bit at a time' like when they 'quick fixed' LRMs nearly to oblivion...

[EtherDragon]

Thanks all for responding to the Poll.

It seems the devs have picked up the intention, and are giving LRMs a slight damage increase of 0.1 - making them 1.8 per missile.

Quote

LRM/SRM/SSRM/ARTEMIS

• Artemis is fine where it is at the moment.
  
• SRMs are fine where they are at the moment.
  
• SSRMs will spread damage across LT,CT,RT instead of always just hitting CT. On moving targets, limbs will be hit as well.
  
• LRMs will get a 0.1 damage buff.

Link for reference.
http://mwomercs.com/...apon-balancing/

Poll Reedback
When I designed this poll, I thought it was a good idea to leave out redundant options. If a person does not agree that something is too low or too high, they must there-fore agree that it's just right. For some reason, people were unable to make that logical step. So future polls (from me) will always include a neutral option.

Poll (Major) Results

• Most people (48%) who replied agreed that damage was too low
  
• Most people (57%) did not agree that accuracy was too low or too high, implying that they think accuracy is fine.
  
• Two-Thirds did not agree that LRMs were too easy or too hard to avoid, implying they think avoidance is just right.
  
• 40% of respondants said that Artemis does not sufficiently improve LRMs
  
• The largest group of respondants chose not to make any changes.
  
• Of those that suggested a change the options for "Increase Damage by 5-10%" and "Improve Artemis Effectiveness" tied for the most votes.