234 replies to this topic

[Purlana]

If your using DHS on an assult mech your doing something wrong. Any assult mech can get better heat by using SHS, because you simply don't have enough critical slots.

It seems that assult mechs will need to wait for clan DHS...

Edited by Purlana, 12 November 2012 - 05:31 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

You don't have the tonnage for single sinks. I know what you are thinking, but I would need a minimum of 18 sinks(total of 28 total) added to my Atlas to get the same heat efficiency of 4 double sinks (14 total). Which saves tonnage for more armor and a bigger engine.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 12 November 2012 - 05:34 AM.

[DerMaulwurf]

Purlana, on 12 November 2012 - 05:29 AM, said:

If your using DHS on an assult mech your doing something wrong. Any assult mech can get better heat by using SHS, because you simply don't have enough critical slots.

It seems that assult mechs will need to wait for clan DHS...

You can get a higher total heat dissipation with SHS. That's true. But you're wasting way too much tonnage this way. The drawback of DHS is that there is an effective cap on the maximum achievable heat dissipation. But if you use the saved weight to load up some heat effective weapons (Gauss, SRM), they're still better.

In their current (bugged) state DHS are the way to go. And they'd probably still be in the intended state.

I think the builds that are enabled bring more variety to MWO than viable SHS. I hope the current unintended test convinces the devs that ungimped DHS are not as dangerous to the game as they thought.

[Calmon]

DHS need to get balanced. I'm fine with DHS 2.0 working in a way that mech get cooler over time. What I I really don't understand is the fact that DHS is increasing the Heat threshold as well. This makes absolute no sense and makes DHS the only option.

[Bubba Wilkins]

Well, after playing quite a bit this weekend and tweaking my builds accordingly, I have to say that I'm happy with the current split stats. I'd love for full 2.0's across the board and really don't see how that would break things, but take into the account the following:

With both map and skill bonuses being applied my effective values of HS are as follows:

with 17 DHS in my Atlas:

Frozen City: 40.88 effective = 2.40 per HS
Frozen Forest: 38.58 effective = 2.26 per HS
River City: 34.50 effective = 2.03 per HS
Forest Colony: 34.25 effective = 2.01 per HS
Caustic: 31.11 effective = 1.83 per HS

Since I have my handy spreadsheet available....I'll up the outside HS to 2.0

Effective Results
Frozen City: 45.71 2.69/HS
Frozen Forest 43.41 2.55
River City 39.33 2.31
Forest Colony 39.10 2.30
Caustic 35.94 2.11

I don't think this is overpowered, but considering that even on Caustic you will be running over a 2.0 baseline seems a bit much.

I heavily tweaked my Atlas builds all weekend and the most DHS I've ever managed was the 17 used here in my test build. I try to use every hardpoint available for maximum DPS and have never been able to fit more than 17 in any given build. You either run out of crit space or tonnage every time.

Maybe the larger concern is that with the skill modifier that the gulf between SHS and DHS builds becomes too great. Certainly a point of discussion.

Still, even at a full 2.0, we are a long way from a Heat Neutral kill-all build existing.

Edited by Bubba Wilkins, 12 November 2012 - 07:54 AM.

[Bubba Wilkins]

Purlana, on 12 November 2012 - 05:29 AM, said:

If your using DHS on an assult mech your doing something wrong. Any assult mech can get better heat by using SHS, because you simply don't have enough critical slots.

It seems that assult mechs will need to wait for clan DHS...

Not really. Every build of my three Atlas variants benefits from DHS far more than singles.

This build for instance isn't even possible with SHS:



You can't even come close to this weapons configuration with SHS (would require a minimum of 30SHS).

Edited by Bubba Wilkins, 12 November 2012 - 07:56 AM.

[Clay Pigeon]

the huanglong, on 12 November 2012 - 01:48 AM, said:

Good god, if my stock 9M gets any hotter than it is now, I might as well just hit P at the start of the match. When was the last time FOTM migrated to an energy weapon?

Very early beta, when frozen city's heatsink efficiency buff was added, the HBK 4p was FOTW. The next week medium laser heat was increased.

[Tickdoff Tank]

Kmieciu, on 12 November 2012 - 02:14 AM, said:

This is a brillant idea! An Atlas packed with SHS would have better alpha-strike capability than the one with fewer DHS.



Hate to break it to you, but the 3 heat sinks you put in the engine are in fact, the less effective ones. Only the irremovable EHS are at 2.0

You are absolutely correct. But getting 1.4s for no space and 1 ton (3 of them) is much better than 1.4s for 3 spaces and 1 ton.

[Thuzel]

Everyone who did the research knew that 2.0 DHS would not destroy balance as they'd said it would. As far as I can tell, PGI hasn't responded to any of that, except for quoting their position of 2.0 being overpowered.

Even with full 2.0 DHS, energy weapons would still have significant disadvantages against ballistics and missiles.

Honestly, they've got to start figuring this out or they're going to start losing people. I'm about as hardcore as they come for mechwarrior, and even I've started losing interest. I understand that it's still officially "beta", but that's a moot point since there will be no more resets. Without resets, I've no interest in spending money on MC because who knows what's going to happen next week...

[fxrsniper]

Its my understanding that all DHS are at 1.4 including the engine per the patch notes

[Squid von Torgar]

Quote

Its my understanding that all DHS are at 1.4 including the engine per the patch notes

The patch notes were wrong. We have found evidence in the code that engine DHS are set to 2.0 and this has been further confirmed by tests. Finally I submitted a ticket to support regarding the 1.4/2.0 values and they confirmed that the 2.0 value was there and was due to balancing.

[Clay Pigeon]

fxrsniper, on 12 November 2012 - 08:47 AM, said:

Its my understanding that all DHS are at 1.4 including the engine per the patch notes

The patch notes aren't correct. Data mining and player testing has shown that the 10 free engine heatsinks are true doubles, while non-free engine heatsinks (engines 275 and larger) and external heatsinks are 1.4

[Thuzel]

fxrsniper, on 12 November 2012 - 08:47 AM, said:

Its my understanding that all DHS are at 1.4 including the engine per the patch notes

They're not. They were all supposed to be 1.4, but as implemented (bugged) the engine DHS are 2.0 and the ones outside are 1.4.

Simple implementation bugs like that are a huge part of the problem. This is at least the second time there's been a major bug with DHS that should have been obvious in QA before release. Did they intend to do that and just not update the notes? Who knows...

[fxrsniper]

Purlana, on 12 November 2012 - 05:29 AM, said:

If your using DHS on an assult mech your doing something wrong. Any assult mech can get better heat by using SHS, because you simply don't have enough critical slots.

It seems that assult mechs will need to wait for clan DHS...

Have you lost your mind I could never get what I have on my Atlas with singles like I do with DHS due to slots or mainly tonage. My heat efficiency is much better now being able to run DHS in my engine. My LRM boat normally would have 22 singles now I run 13 DHS and get even more heat efficiency

Squid von Torgar, on 12 November 2012 - 08:50 AM, said:

The patch notes were wrong. We have found evidence in the code that engine DHS are set to 2.0 and this has been further confirmed by tests. Finally I submitted a ticket to support regarding the 1.4/2.0 values and they confirmed that the 2.0 value was there and was due to balancing.

Clay Pigeon, on 12 November 2012 - 08:50 AM, said:

The patch notes aren't correct. Data mining and player testing has shown that the 10 free engine heatsinks are true doubles, while non-free engine heatsinks (engines 275 and larger) and external heatsinks are 1.4

Where's the proof that these numbers are what you say they are, so I can share with our group

[CeeKay Boques]

So no ones complaining... so you want to change it. I like it.

[Squid von Torgar]

Quote

Where's the proof that these numbers are what you say they are, so I can share with our group

http://mwomercs.com/...-effectiveness/

Quote

So no ones complaining... so you want to change it. I like it.

Yes I want it changed because currently they favour lights and meds too much at the expense of Assaults. Furthermore the entire reason we didnt get fully working DHS is because the devs told us they were OP. That clearly isnt true.

Of course you could actually try reading the posts in this thread rather than making inane comments.

[Thuzel]

fxrsniper, on 12 November 2012 - 08:58 AM, said:

Have you lost your mind I could never get what I have on my Atlas with singles like I do with DHS due to slots or mainly tonage. My heat efficiency is much better now being able to run DHS in my engine. My LRM boat normally would have 22 singles now I run 13 DHS and get even more heat efficiency

You can test it yourself.

If they released as they said in the patch notes, 13 DHS is only the equivalent of 18.2 SHS at this point. Your mech should be running much hotter than it did with 22 SHS.

If it implemented as 2.0 EHS and 1.4 outside, you now have 24.2 which should be cooler than before.

[tenderloving]

Rifter, on 12 November 2012 - 05:18 AM, said:

He said it in my thread, post located below. Its obviously a total lie.

http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__1362549

LOL how does DHS even affect that anyway? How can you be that clueless? IF you could do the two complete alpha strikes it would take to core the Atlas in 3 seconds, you could do it with single heat sinks just as easily as DHS.

[Matist]

I'd like to see them go 2.0 outside the engine. Personally right now it feels like the high energy weapons still aren't seeing any use in the game and heavy/assault mechs just can't field them.

The game already has a lot of disadvantages for the larger mechs. With 2.0 in engine only it's just another thing that favors light/mediums running medium laser builds.

[Orzorn]

In attempting to prevent mechs from gaining too much of an advantage, they have allowed lighter mechs to have more of an advantage over heavier mechs in the realm of DHS.

How very silly.