258 replies to this topic

[SpiralRazor]

MustrumRidcully, on 15 November 2012 - 07:18 AM, said:

No, they aren't well balanced. They may be effective and powerful, but they are not well-balanced.

I know you can do some good math, so Id like you to explain as to how..and why.

[Dakkath]

My only feedback with this:

The cockpit shake should be determined by the location of the hit, and how large the caliber is.

An AC/2 rocking an Atlas so that they are "perma-stunned" is kind of dumb. Now dual AC/20's I can understand.

Edited by Dakkath, 15 November 2012 - 08:46 AM.

[Denno]

The problem of using AC 2's, and maybe even UAC/AC 5s, is the amount of time you have to be facing, or mostly facing, the target. Yes, they are sometimes annoying but folks have to present and not do too much damage mitigating maneuvering while using them. That's when I can core or torso them without much problem.

[AlexWildeagle]

Atomicoxen, on 14 November 2012 - 09:46 PM, said:

Oh sweet baby jesus, save us from the AC2!

Once I realized this wasn't intended as humor and the OP is vehemently defending his point....

well, I peed a little.

not proud of it.

Yeah, the guys in the cubes around me are wondering why I'm laughing so loud and now sitting on the floor. I'd say the OPs brain is greatly under-powered.

[o0Marduk0o]

WarZ, on 14 November 2012 - 07:57 PM, said:

Sadly the ease with which the multiple AC builds tear apart ANYTHING is just depressing. They core and crit with ridiculous ease. Unless you are very fast you are meat. Only build right now where you know you have to leave or die no matter your armament.

The cockpit shake BS from a small AC2 is what makes it the most stupid.

They tear apart bad players - like you?
Play better and cry less, thanks and bye.

PS: Imagine a Cicada with Quad-AC2! This must be godmode.

Edited by o0Marduk0o, 15 November 2012 - 09:01 AM.

[MaddMaxx]

The OP has asked the wrong question.

"Why does a weapon that has only 60m more range, does 1/7th the damage per trigger pull, have the same Impulse rating as the other weapon noted here?"

Provide a satisfactory answer to that question and the real discussion can be begin. The background noise in here just needs to be filtered out is all.

[MustrumRidcully]

Bagheera, on 15 November 2012 - 07:44 AM, said:

Theoretical DPS is not the sole measuring stick by which weapons are measured. In fact, I sometimes struggle to understand why we bother with DPS as a weapon stat at all. This isn't an MMO. You can't just look at a power's damage and recycle time and extrapolate it's damage per second. The game doesn't work that way. DPS has always seemed to fit better in those games where you select an AI enemy and faceroll the keyboard till it is dead.

it's a fallacy to believe that only in MMOs DPS matters. Even in MMOs, attacks tend to have recycle times. Most MMOs have animation times and cooldowns that determine when and how often damage is applied. If you are too far away from a target, you won't damage it, regardless of whether you faceroll the keyboard ornot. Other games (say, Startrek Online), have damage drop off by range so even if you're in range, you may not deal the full DPS at any range.

And yet, it has always been a helpful value. It is not the sole benchmark for damage output. You also have to consider "burst" damage (when you need ot inflict a lot of time before a "bad" event happens, like - enemy leaves ranges, enemy kills you, someone heals your target or a defensive ability gets activated that makes hitting them target), and that is also relevant for MW:O.

But just because there is more than just one factor to consider doesn't mean that the single factor, like DPS, is irrelevant.

[WarZ]

Dakkath, on 15 November 2012 - 08:46 AM, said:

The cockpit shake should be determined by the location of the hit, and how large the caliber is.

An AC/2 rocking an Atlas so that they are "perma-stunned" is kind of dumb. Now dual AC/20's I can understand.

More DPS and range than a guass, while making it extremely difficult to impossible for an enemy mech to return fire against you...

Oh wait I see you guys are all exploiting AC2 builds. You're not fooling anyone.

Hell, you dont even have to move more than a few kph when firing it, making it easy to keep on target, and exponentially more difficult for an enemy to return fire against it.

Statwise it doesnt sound like much, until you run into it and get shredded with little ability to fire back.

Its the same reasoning chaining streaks was so difficult to defend against.

Giving the little weapon the ability to essentially stun a mech is just BS. The screen goes nuts. Is this so hard to understand...well of course it is if you run AC2's and exploit em, but otherwise, no.

[Mavairo]

I can safely say 2 AC2s still takes a while to pop someone's ***.

You are much better off with a single AC2 and a pair of ER LLs for doing both burst and sustained damage.

The 2 ACs "doing more dps than a guass!" is over a period of 4 seconds while hosing through ALOT more ammunition. That is assuming every bolt is hitting, the exact same points of armor. They also are generating much more heat than a Gauss round will generate, making it much more difficult to utilize other weapon systems over that duration. 2 AC2s in 4 seconds hoses through 16 rounds of ammunition. You need 16 hits to surprass a Gauss's Single **** Hand Shot. And you're ******** about this? really?

A Gauss + other guns will out damage 2 AC2s.

"But I get perma stunned!" No you don't you can still move. can still you know find cover. And frankly you can still shoot through the ''pain''. It just takes abit of Discipline.

What would you rather get cored in 3 salvos from Gauss weapons? Or just be mildly annoyed that your cockpit is being shaken about? Lemme guess, you use Gauss weapons, and are upset that a Supression Weapon is ruining your aim? QQn is not healthy for a pvper's soul.

Edited by Mavairo, 15 November 2012 - 09:26 AM.

[Vernius Ix]

Tarman, on 14 November 2012 - 09:40 PM, said:

Sit down. Are you sitting? Okay.

This is a real event, it actually happened. The AC2 has been declared a weapon achieving the status of, get ready, "over - powered".

Okay, now that you're coherent again, drink this vodka and smoke this cigarette and just don't think for a while. Let it filter in slowly.

/Thread

[Adeptus Odren]

Skyfaller, on 14 November 2012 - 08:49 PM, said:

You can't have a quad AC2 cicada. The weight of the four AC2's alone eats up the tonnage and you barely have 1 ton of ammo left to use. At the rate and very low damage the Ac2 does you hardly have enough ammo to engage a 1-legged hopping jenner and kill it.

Yes you can have a quad AC2 cicada. I have one. With 3 tons of ammo. ES, FF and standard 100 engine.

[Tice Daurus]

Ok i've read 3 pages into this and I've read enough.

To the OP, the AC/2 is NOT OP. You sir are on crack. People run dual or multiple AC/2 builds for repeated chain fire ability are using them to provide long range repeated sniping and harassment because of the constant rate of fire. Also, I've run repeated dual AC/2 builds on my hunchback and after the game is completed I'm lucky if my damage is over 300. LUCKY.

There is no WAY on god's green earth or in the Inner Sphere for that matter that AC/2 builds for dual or multiple AC/2 builds are OP. NONE. They are meant to harass and snipe from long distances. That's it.

And if you are getting killed by them...MOVE. Don't like it?

Deal with it. They are fine. /end of thread.

[Krivvan]

Bagheera, on 15 November 2012 - 07:44 AM, said:

DPS has always seemed to fit better in those games where you select an AI enemy and faceroll the keyboard till it is dead.

WRONG.

You don't even need to touch the keyboard.

[xZaOx]

When, i see someone with AC2's i just laugh at them, and proceed to either ignore them for more important, threatening mechs, or proceed to stomp them into the ground. They shell out a lot of slugs, but not constantly to one spot. Yes they are annoying, but that's about it.

[Penance]

Ohhhh, so this is the thing i keep getting hit with that causes all the cockpit shaking?

That feature makes no sense to me. all weapons should make a mech shake.

Tone it down, or remove.

[Doomie77]

I'm going to go ahead and say it. Learn to play. You're what's going to kill this game.

[Lightfoot]

Sure you don't mean Ultra AC5's?

AC 2's are bothersome, but there is better stuff. I advise lateral movement and close in with some SRMs or such.

[Onyx Rain]

Mavairo, on 14 November 2012 - 08:15 PM, said:

OP probably is running a gaussapult and is upset that he can't aim anymore when people are pelting him with AC2 rounds.

Would you like some cheese OP?

That is actually a pretty good tactic...I hadn't thought of that... Very good sir. Ac2's could be very useful in disrupting a Gcat and allowing others to close in on it.
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What is with so many people not wanting another mech on the field that can kill them?


Short of the God-Mode LRMs that we had a mass QQ event over... I have not seen a single build or weapon really that was OP IMO. I know others disagree, but I can pretty much fight anything and feel like a have a good shot of winning unless I'm vastly outnumbered or shot to pieces already. Do you all think you shouldn't be able to be easily put down when you have no Ct armor left, and/or are fighting 2-7 other mechs or something?
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Ac2's do good DPS, and have cockpit shake, but each hit is little damage and the damage gets spread around so much that unless the person has all day to fire at you, or you are already nearly dead they are a moderate threat at best. You can still aim and hit through that shake...I do it all the time, (Alpha-Strike!!!).

Edited by Onyx Rain, 15 November 2012 - 10:06 AM.

[Doomie77]

Also, is the nerfed cockpit shake STILL too much got you? Good god......

[Kraven Kor]

I totally called this one lol.