2926 replies to this topic

[LogicalTightRope]

Mystere, on 26 June 2013 - 02:04 PM, said:

...as PGI claims it would...

PGI hasn't exactly won me over. Not that they're doing the worst they possibly could, but nor are they anywhere near perfect. Yes, I know it's still beta.

Mystere, on 26 June 2013 - 02:04 PM, said:

Not that I am saying that MWO will have the same issues (see what I did there? ).

If you're implying we should just assume everything will be A-O-K with the new 3pv, let me stop you from wasting your time. It wasn't ok in the past (MW4) and other unsavory features making an appearance in MW:O haven't led me to believe anything will be different (coolant flush, convergence of weapons, poptarting (but I admit the jumpjet 'fix' was not the way to go)). I see it as guilty until proven innocent in this case.

EDIT: By saying 'let me stop you from wasting your time,' I don't mean to say you have no chance of being right; as you said, only the devs know how it will be implemented, if anyone. I mean you have no chance of
convincing most of the people who are against 3pv.

Mystere, on 26 June 2013 - 02:04 PM, said:

3PV should be implemented as the UNION of your visual and sensor information.

Elaborate.

Edited by LogicalTightRope, 26 June 2013 - 02:17 PM.

[Ignatz22]

Mystere, on 26 June 2013 - 01:39 PM, said:

Read all 130+ pages? HELL NO! I stopped at 30 (or 50, I seriously can't remember) or so and that was a long time ago.

Also, I wanted HIS specific reason, not the FORUM MOB's ( ). Is that clear enough for you?

As for that unfair advantage you mentioned, are you one of those "MW4 3PV == MWO 3PV" folks? Because, as I said in another post:

MWO is not MW4.

MWO is not MW4.

MWO is not MW4.

MWO is not MW4.

Sirs;

You can argue either way but the fact is PGI said it wasn't going to happen, among other promises, and now it will be implemented in some fashion. If you seriously believe all is well and nothing bad will ever come of this, then you believe them when they make any other promises they have or will break. You don't know where this is headed, neither do I or ANYONE else outside PGI, and they aren't trustworthy.
MWO is a great game. I think the potential is there, and the product to date is better than it was when I started in November but still needs work. That said, please don't assert that the development of the game will be in this or that direction. You don't know. Others have concerns you don't share, and obviously don't read about or understand.
This indeed may turn out badly, and the development team needs to hear from the Beta testers, anyone PLAYING the Beta who is willing to express a critical comment.

I remain,

Hoping for the Best,
Preparing for the Worst,
Reserving judgment and money for MC until I see the finished product.

-ignatz22

[Mystere]

LogicalTightRope, on 26 June 2013 - 02:13 PM, said:

Elaborate.

Start from this page and follow for the next several pages for some discussions. Then go here, and then finally here for an example.

[h0wl]

I think 3rd person view is a horrible idea unless it's only available after the match as a replay recording option, that I think would be interesting to watch the battle from top down or zoom around in 3rd person after the battle. 3rd person view yields too much situation-awareness that someone with only the cockpit isn't going to get. If people want that let them play Mario Cart.

[Grimmnyr]

Kraven Kor, on 26 June 2013 - 01:56 PM, said:

And, again, we already see MWO going the route of MW:4 - Coolant Flush, Jump Snipers, Big-Alpha or Go Home, and - with 3PV - the chance of it going further down that path.

You may not agree with me, that's fine. I may even be wrong. But I'm going to keep posting about it to try and do what tiny bit I can to prevent that.

MW4 did keep MW alive for 10 years though, so I don't blame them for trying to emulate it based on that.

[Mr Andersson]

I know a lot of people who will stop playing this game if 3rd person is implemented. Is there even a single person who will stop playing if it isn't implemented? Even if you are solely basing your decisions on money (which I hope you don't), there is your answer.

[Mystere]

Ignatz22, on 26 June 2013 - 02:49 PM, said:

You can argue either way but the fact is PGI said it wasn't going to happen, among other promises, and now it will be implemented in some fashion. If you seriously believe all is well and nothing bad will ever come of this, then you believe them when they make any other promises they have or will break. You don't know where this is headed, neither do I or ANYONE else outside PGI, and they aren't trustworthy.

Trust is something I reserve for people who have a direct impact on my life and well-being.

PGI, on the other hand, is a game development company. As such, I judge them by the amount of entertainment I derive from their product, and that is expressed by how much I dip into my wallet to pay them.

Edited by Mystere, 27 June 2013 - 06:31 AM.

[Hotthedd]

Mystere, on 27 June 2013 - 06:31 AM, said:

Trust is something I reserve for people who have a direct impact on my life and well-being.

PGI, on the other hand, is a game development company. As such, I judge them by the amount of entertainment I derive from their product, and that is expressed by how much I dip into my wallet to pay them.

Really? You give money to people you do not trust?

In that case, I need your help. I am a Nigerian prince who needs your bank account number in order to transfer $50 billion out of the country. In exchange for your help, I will provide you with hours of "entertainment".

[Mystere]

LogicalTightRope, on 26 June 2013 - 02:13 PM, said:

Yes, I know it's still beta.

Good for you. But, there are those who forget this or steadfastly refuse to consider this game as such.

LogicalTightRope, on 26 June 2013 - 02:13 PM, said:

If you're implying we should just assume everything will be A-O-K with the new 3pv ...

I am neither assuming nor implying any such thing. I will judge their implementation of 3PV when it comes, not before. But, there are already those who are prejudging even though they do not even know any of the implementation details. Some are just basing it on the TRAUMA ( ) they received while playing MW4.

LogicalTightRope, on 26 June 2013 - 02:13 PM, said:

EDIT: By saying 'let me stop you from wasting your time,' I don't mean to say you have no chance of being right; as you said, only the devs know how it will be implemented, if anyone. I mean you have no chance of convincing most of the people who are against 3pv.

And that is how I read your original statement. But, thanks for giving a clarification anyway.

And finally, I find this vehement opposition to 3PV a bit silly. It's almost like saying that all chocolate ice creams are created equal, when I know for a fact that the ones we used to make were heavenly (i.e. no cheap or artificial ingredients used, especially the chocolate which was made from scratch from cacao beans).

(Well, it's summer, it's hot, and I could really use some of that magnificent chocolate ice cream right now ).

[Viper69]

Mr Andersson, on 27 June 2013 - 04:24 AM, said:

I know a lot of people who will stop playing this game if 3rd person is implemented. Is there even a single person who will stop playing if it isn't implemented? Even if you are solely basing your decisions on money (which I hope you don't), there is your answer.

I do as well, however the number as I said earlier you have to look at is this. Is the number of players lost less or more than the players gained by having it. That is the number PGI is banking on. They are banking on the incoming players being greater than the loss of micro transactions from existing players.

As for 3PV being an advantage over FPV. PGI has stated (Although they have lied before) that you wont have to play against people playing in 3PV mode. So the perceived advantage wont be there unless its consensual. However I am led to believe that the further division in player queues will eventually lead to the total failure of the FPV queue by forced migration based on long queue times or people just outright not playing anymore. This will lead to the eventual recombining of queues. I have no issues with 3PV being in its own queue, just its long term effect on the over all health of the rest of the queues. Although if migration happens from FPV to 3PV queues then people like the game enough to suffer it and will prove everyone wrong who hates 3PV.

As a training tool that statement is BS in the highest, BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS. What ever in your life have you done in the 3rd person as a learning tool? Did you learn to drive your car by sitting on the roof on a stool? When you learned to ride a bike was it in the 3rd person? Also you latest generation of gamers are pansies if you need a crutch like 3PV to learn to game, really.

[Mystere]

Hotthedd, on 27 June 2013 - 06:43 AM, said:

Really? You give money to people you do not trust?

In that case, I need your help. I am a Nigerian prince who needs your bank account number in order to transfer $50 billion out of the country. In exchange for your help, I will provide you with hours of "entertainment".

Ha! Ha! Ha! Nice try! But, your reading comprehension is horrible because you totally missed the point. As such, may I suggest going back to school?

Besides, MWO is free to play. So you really don't have to pay anything until you want to.

[Hotthedd]

Mystere, on 27 June 2013 - 07:13 AM, said:

Ha! Ha! Ha! Nice try! But, your reading comprehension is horrible because you totally missed the point. As such, may I suggest going back to school?

Besides, MWO is free to play. So you really don't have to pay anything until you want to.

[Hotthedd]

Mystere, on 27 June 2013 - 07:13 AM, said:

Ha! Ha! Ha! Nice try! But, your reading comprehension is horrible because you totally missed the point. As such, may I suggest going back to school?

Besides, MWO is free to play. So you really don't have to pay anything until you want to.

It seems YOU have missed the point. IF this is a business, courting players (or retaining players) who will not pay into the game is not the goal. PGI needs to attract/retain PAYING customers in order to survive. I believe you are in the minority of people who will pay money to those you admit to not trusting.

[Muraek]

IMHO, it would be a good first step of implementation, only when a Mechwarrior has been defeated.

For sure, this 3rd person view requires a lot of testing, but, for sure, it will give more sensations.

Show must go on!!!

[MaD hAtTeR nInJa]

First and foremost, those who say if they include third person view will quit, GOOD BYE. Your an *****. They have stated two game modes, normal and hardcore. Guess what normal means you play in 3rd person ONLY. Hardcore mode is 1st person ONLY. So you don't want easy mode. Show us how good you really are. Use hardcore mode only, like I plan to. Why the **** would you ***** and complain about a mode you aren't even going to be affected by, because your opponents WILL be using the same view as you. As another posted stated, don't like 3rd person, don't use it. Jesus christ people, complain about everything, QQ already. Your just making yourself look stupid.

[Blahberry]

madhatternynja, on 27 June 2013 - 07:52 AM, said:

First and foremost, those who say if they include third person view will quit, GOOD BYE. Your an *****. They have stated two game modes, normal and hardcore. Guess what normal means you play in 3rd person ONLY. Hardcore mode is 1st person ONLY. So you don't want easy mode. Show us how good you really are. Use hardcore mode only, like I plan to. Why the **** would you ***** and complain about a mode you aren't even going to be affected by, because your opponents WILL be using the same view as you. As another posted stated, don't like 3rd person, don't use it. Jesus christ people, complain about everything, QQ already. Your just making yourself look stupid.

But they stated earlier they were never going to add Third Person.
And it shouldn't be included Mech Warrior games are supposed to be First person, then with this Third person **** you get a player base divide.

[Mystere]

Blahberry, on 27 June 2013 - 07:56 AM, said:

But they stated earlier they were never going to add Third Person.
And it shouldn't be included Mech Warrior games are supposed to be First person, then with this Third person **** you get a player base divide.

I just have two things to say:

• PGI did not use the word "never".
  
• 3PV has been around since MW2, and as I such I do not know where your "Mech Warrior games are supposed to be First person" is coming from.

[Mystere]

Kraven Kor, on 27 June 2013 - 08:05 AM, said:

No, the community did. And, I admit, "the community" wanted No Heat, Unlimited Ammo, Third Person View matches where you were either a 6x Clan ER Large Laser or multiple Clan ER PPC jump sniper, or you were a loser.

Does this then imply that PGI is on to something?

Kraven Kor, on 27 June 2013 - 08:05 AM, said:

At this point, all I want is to try and ensure we keep the separation between the 1PV only and 1PV/3PV optional queues.

I, on the other hand, have been suggesting that PGI ensures that 3PV and 1PV attain parity so that separate queues will not even be necessary.

Kraven Kor, on 27 June 2013 - 08:05 AM, said:

But keep on raging and insulting.

Methinks most of the raging (e.g. "I will quit playing if 3PV is implemented!") and insulting (e.g. "So, it's basically for morons.") are coming from the anti-3PV crowd.

Edited by Mystere, 27 June 2013 - 08:27 AM.

[Kraven Kor]

Mystere, on 27 June 2013 - 08:21 AM, said:

Methinks most of the raging (e.g. "I will quit playing if 3PV is implemented.") and insulting (e.g. "So, it's basically for morons.") are coming from the anti-3PV crowd.

I was quoting someone whose message had more ****'s than words, and who called any of us who do not wish to play in or deal with 3PV morons, whiners, etc.

Plenty on both sides, I'm sure.

And you CAN NOT achieve parity between 1PV / 3PV unless you simply do not render mechs, terrains, and textures "blocked from LoS" which would look ugly as sin.

They are welcome to prove me wrong. And if they somehow achieve this impossible goal, I will print out every post I have made on the subject (a few...) and film myself eating them (I'll try and ensure I'm using some type of non-toxic method of doing so.)

I expect to be held to this promise if I am, in fact, proven wrong.

I'm fairly confident that I won't be, but it is entirely possible I will be.

[LogicalTightRope]

Mystere, on 26 June 2013 - 04:32 PM, said:

Start from this page and follow for the next several pages for some discussions. Then go here, and then finally here for an example.

If implemented in such a way as these, and if they prove to give no advantage, I'm fine with 3pv. I just hope PGI is as on top of this as they say they are, and they've got plenty of convincing to do, for me anyway. We'll see how the test servers go.

Edited by LogicalTightRope, 27 June 2013 - 08:36 AM.