131 replies to this topic

[SamizdatCowboy]

Wrong. A cap win is going to net you a MAX of 7,500 CB: 5,000 for the cap win and 2,500 if you're in the cap zone.

Salvage bonus is FAR more lucrative. If you can get your teammates to kill the enemy EFFICIENTLY you are going to see a large salvage bonus on the order of 50-100K.

Hmm, 7500K or 50-100K... gee I dunno. Again though you have to be sure to kill efficiently, otherwise your salvage bonus will be more on the order of 15 - 40K (which still far exceeds capture win CB).

What does efficiently mean? Headshot or legs... the engine is one of the most valuable parts of the mech, so when you core an enemy you wipe out a huge chunk of his salvage value. If you HAVE to core him due to battlefield conditions (i.e. you'll die if you don't), do your best to core him CLEANLY, preserving his other components as best you can.


Cap wins aren't even all that great for XP: 125 XP, 75 for the cap win and 50 if you were in the cap zone. You'll easily net more than that with a combination of kill shots and kill assists.


Somewhere along the line 'teamwork' became synonymous with 'cap win' which became synonymous with 'more CB'... and that's all just a bunch of BS.

In fact, maximizing your salvage bonus by eliminating the entire other team requires the most teamwork since it's not enough to kill the enemy, it's not enough for just you to be efficient, rather you're whole team has to be efficient and your focus fire has to be efficient and you have to... kill the enemy.

Compare that to standing in a square twiddling your thumbs.

Now cap wins ARE useful if the issue is in doubt and your chances of knocking off the other team aren't looking so hot... at the end of the day a Win still provides the most CB, and better a cap win than no win at all.

I've said this in other threads but: This is Battletech, and the Battletech universe has always rewarded most killing things. Efficiently.


For more details on the whole salvage bonus thing I'd recommend this excellent thread by Vlad Ward:

http://mwomercs.com/...hwarrior-style/


And please do your part the next time some uninformed scrub parrots the whole 'cap is more CB,' baloney and kindly flame correct him.

[Jace11]

ok

[MouseNo4]

Yep.

[Chrithu]

Just to say: The moment when people yell "CAP, don't kill" is when all of the enemy team except the last AFK guy are dead already. And in this particular case: YES capping is indeed more effective than getting the salvage for that last kill. That often will not even be accounted for since the dude DC'ed post countdown.

[Bguk]

Let's just start with a win gets you more than a loss. Actually, we should just leave it at there for the general populace.

[Joseph Mallan]

SamizdatCowboy, on 30 November 2012 - 05:52 AM, said:

Wrong. A cap win is going to net you a MAX of 7,500 CB: 5,000 for the cap win and 2,500 if you're in the cap zone.

Salvage bonus is FAR more lucrative. If you can get your teammates to kill the enemy EFFICIENTLY you are going to see a large salvage bonus on the order of 50-100K.

Hmm, 7500K or 50-100K... gee I dunno. Again though you have to be sure to kill efficiently, otherwise your salvage bonus will be more on the order of 15 - 40K (which still far exceeds capture win CB).

What does efficiently mean? Headshot or legs... the engine is one of the most valuable parts of the mech, so when you core an enemy you wipe out a huge chunk of his salvage value. If you HAVE to core him due to battlefield conditions (i.e. you'll die if you don't), do your best to core him CLEANLY, preserving his other components as best you can.


Cap wins aren't even all that great for XP: 125 XP, 75 for the cap win and 50 if you were in the cap zone. You'll easily net more than that with a combination of kill shots and kill assists.


Somewhere along the line 'teamwork' became synonymous with 'cap win' which became synonymous with 'more CB'... and that's all just a bunch of BS.

In fact, maximizing your salvage bonus by eliminating the entire other team requires the most teamwork since it's not enough to kill the enemy, it's not enough for just you to be efficient, rather you're whole team has to be efficient and your focus fire has to be efficient and you have to... kill the enemy.

Compare that to standing in a square twiddling your thumbs.

Now cap wins ARE useful if the issue is in doubt and your chances of knocking off the other team aren't looking so hot... at the end of the day a Win still provides the most CB, and better a cap win than no win at all.

I've said this in other threads but: This is Battletech, and the Battletech universe has always rewarded most killing things. Efficiently.


For more details on the whole salvage bonus thing I'd recommend this excellent thread by Vlad Ward:

http://mwomercs.com/...hwarrior-style/


And please do your part the next time some uninformed scrub parrots the whole 'cap is more CB,' baloney and kindly flame correct him.

Cap teh base once you have basically secured the area (6-7 enemy dead) Then cap the base for the exp and Money. Successful completion of the scenario is cappin the base. Killing the whole enemy team nets you a bonus. That is how scenarios are set up. I know I was a FanPro Commando. If the game is Cap the Base, then capping is supposed to be worth more than killing the enemy team. What you want is a death match. I don't like it when my team doesn't cap. We haven't fulfilled the mission, we just prove we are good killers. Killing is easy.

[JPsi]

Xp Wise, yes it is more efficient when theres that last little light or afker to deal with. ~70 XP for the kill and 25 for the assists teammates does not outweigh the cap win. As for Salvage on that last mech, well that seems to depend also. Most of the time I see people pushing the "Cap is more" line is in that situation. I've yet to see someone saying it gave more at the start of a match.

[Green Mamba]

Haha I know the game your talikng about Sam

[Mu]

People only say 'cap don't kill' when the last guy is a disconnect or hiding. Unless it's an Atlas-K or something, hell even then I don't think the salvage would beat the 7000 cbills + exp for capture and capture assist.

As for base rushing - it's stupid and lame but hey, at least it's fast and there's no repairs. Gonna have to be watchful of win trading in 8v8.

[SamizdatCowboy]

Joseph Mallan, on 30 November 2012 - 06:01 AM, said:

Killing is easy.

Killing 'may' be easy but efficient killing is hard and requires the most teamwork... more than capping.

Edited by SamizdatCowboy, 30 November 2012 - 06:06 AM.

[Chrithu]

I'd like to add that in general I don't like teammates wasting time and ammo with DC'ed mechs when there is still mechs alive that are being actively used. It's just useless since you don't get no money or XP for killing DC'ed mechs. And if you absolutely have to go about it: Line up a fraking headshot and be over with it and don't stand there like a moron for 2 minutes beating down an atlas' CT while the othe enemy you should be fighting kills you with a headshot.

[JPsi]

I just realised by the way I said what I did, I might have implied what you are saying is totally incorrect. Yes capping from the very start does not earn as much (tho less repairs possibly). Out of curiosity have you had people saying that at the start of the match? I'm wondering iff I'm lucky as I've yet to see it outside of the repeated most already dead scenario.

[Mercules]

Typically I cap because I don't want to bother to find the last guy who is possibly hiding and shut down.... and i am in a fast mech. It's just not worth it when we can just stand over there for a short time.

[Green Mamba]

Maybe PGI needs to increase the Bonus for a Capture Win to make feasible to do since it is the Main Objective of the Assault Game Mode.Since its so close to whether killing the last guy or Capture pays more that it brings on Debate, increasing Capture Reward will add an Incentive to follow through with the Main Goal.

[Joseph Mallan]

SamizdatCowboy, on 30 November 2012 - 06:06 AM, said:

Killing 'may' be easy but efficient killing is hard and requires the most teamwork... more than capping.

Capping without killing is the most efficient. No expended ammo to replace, no repairs to make. You don't need to preach to the retired professional killer, but you are missing the point of the scenario(mission). You have been ordered(Paid) to capture the base. You didn't do your job, you won't likely get work again. Or Court Martialed for failure to follow orders. You are a soldier or a soldier for higher. You do as you are told or you're out of a job.

[Aym]

Math is hard.
Salvage bonus of 50k-ish, killing that last LIGHTEST FASTEST mech on their team will net you at best 1/8th of that, but probably less since it's often the LIGHTEST and therefore cheaper than average. Thus, the 7500 you get from capping is probably more than you would get for killing that last light mech that's running away from you. Add on top of that the time saved, and you're wrong.
IF you're talking about an AFK mech, then it depends on the mech in question.

[Indoorsman]

Jason Parker, on 30 November 2012 - 05:59 AM, said:

Just to say: The moment when people yell "CAP, don't kill" is when all of the enemy team except the last AFK guy are dead already. And in this particular case: YES capping is indeed more effective than getting the salvage for that last kill. That often will not even be accounted for since the dude DC'ed post countdown.

If it takes you more than one minute to cap, you are dilluting the money you already earned that match. Say you earned 7 kills which would be 250k money in the first 5 minutes(50k c-bills/min) and it takes your team only 60 seconds to cap, usually takes longer. But even in that case you get an extra 15k c-bills, dilluting your earnings to 265k/6min(44,167 c-bills/min). It would have made more sense to have killed the DC and started a new game. Time is a factor too.

[Aym]

Joseph Mallan, on 30 November 2012 - 06:17 AM, said:

Capping without killing is the most efficient. No expended ammo to replace, no repairs to make. You don't need to preach to the retired professional killer, but you are missing the point of the scenario(mission). You have been ordered(Paid) to capture the base. You didn't do your job, you won't likely get work again. Or Court Martialed for failure to follow orders. You are a soldier or a soldier for higher. You do as you are told or you're out of a job.

To be fair, if you haven't shot down to below 75% of your ammo by the time you're killing that last mech, well, paying to replace ammo isn't your problem.
Generally speaking the shots you fire at the beginning of a match cost you c-bills, the shots you fire at the end are welfare shots.

[Indoorsman]

Aym, on 30 November 2012 - 06:18 AM, said:

Math is hard.
Salvage bonus of 50k-ish, killing that last LIGHTEST FASTEST mech on their team will net you at best 1/8th of that, but probably less since it's often the LIGHTEST and therefore cheaper than average. Thus, the 7500 you get from capping is probably more than you would get for killing that last light mech that's running away from you. Add on top of that the time saved, and you're wrong.
IF you're talking about an AFK mech, then it depends on the mech in question.

It's the minute or 2 wasted capping that is losing you c-bills.

[wanderer]

Jason Parker, on 30 November 2012 - 06:07 AM, said:

I'd like to add that in general I don't like teammates wasting time and ammo with DC'ed mechs when there is still mechs alive that are being actively used. It's just useless since you don't get no money or XP for killing DC'ed mechs. And if you absolutely have to go about it: Line up a fraking headshot and be over with it and don't stand there like a moron for 2 minutes beating down an atlas' CT while the othe enemy you should be fighting kills you with a headshot.

Ironically enough, you do get damage cash for shooting them.

But the reason I usually say"Cap"?

Because when I'm in a PUG group, their idea of "killing" a stationary, AFK target is coring the CT or bombarding it with LRMs until it looks like a chew toy, meaning we get almost nothing because the newbdoggie horde has obliterated the engine section and often much of the rest of the 'Mech.