425 replies to this topic

[Socket7]

Lanessar, on 03 December 2012 - 09:34 AM, said:

They aren't. The heat system itself is junk. All the same, the AWS itself is not the problem, as the stock Jenner, Raven and Cent all played fine on heat. Not the BEST damage, but not total junk. The only mechs with an issue are stock multi-PPC mechs. Ergo, the PPC (and behind that, the house of cards heat system) is the culprit, not the build.



New players will always lose to a player with skill. Matchmaking is there for a reason. I did fine with a stock Jenner, stock Cent, stock Atlas, and a stock Phract. My DPS wasn't as high as it could be, but against other scrubs, I could clean house. This leads me to believe that the build isn't optimal, but it isn't downright useless, unless you're talking multi-PPC builds.

I've been rocking a stock hunchback for days now. My K/D ratio has only been improving. Stocks are a different beast then trials.

Who are all these people going straight for DHS? I always go for FF armor or endosteel. Heat is not the worst of my worries most of the time. Maybe I'm not alphastriking enough.

[Purlana]

Socket7, on 03 December 2012 - 09:47 AM, said:

Because once you get out of your trial mech, you're just going to end up running headlong into battle, overheating because you've still learned nothing, get killed, then come back here and complain whatever killed you needs to be nerfed.

They are not worthless. They are throwing new players to the wolves, but they aren't worthless.

You don't need 50 - 100 games to learn about heat or teamwork....

Has PGI ever heard about a new fangled invention called a tutorial?

Edited by Purlana, 03 December 2012 - 09:53 AM.

[Socket7]

Purlana, on 03 December 2012 - 09:53 AM, said:

You don't need 50 - 100 games to learn about heat or teamwork....

Has PGI ever heard about a new fangled invention called a tutorial?

You mean the new player experience that is already part of the dev roadmap?

No, I don't think they've ever heard of that thing they're currently working on.

ಠ_ಠ

Edited by Socket7, 03 December 2012 - 09:54 AM.

[QuantumButler]

Socket7, on 03 December 2012 - 09:52 AM, said:

I've been rocking a stock hunchback for days now. My K/D ratio has only been improving. Stocks are a different beast then trials.

Who are all these people going straight for DHS? I always go for FF armor or endosteel. Heat is not the worst of my worries most of the time. Maybe I'm not alphastriking enough.

FF armor is complete junk and the fact you'd pick it over DHS shows you know nothing.

"Why yes I would like my armor to weigh 12% less, take up 14 critslots, and cost twice as much per ton to repair so I never make any money!"

Edited by QuantumButler, 03 December 2012 - 09:55 AM.

[renahzor]

Socket7, on 03 December 2012 - 09:47 AM, said:

Because once you get out of your trial mech, you're just going to end up running headlong into battle, overheating because you've still learned nothing, get killed, then come back here and complain whatever killed you needs to be nerfed.

They are not worthless. They are throwing new players to the wolves, but they aren't worthless.

Obviously you're far removed from the NPE at this point. No one learns jack from dying to a customized mech and better pilot, except that what they're using is inadequate. They can sustain more DPS, move faster, have more armor, continue shooting while I wait for heat to burn off, but yeah it's totally just me learning to play that will help.

The rewards for "playing well" in a trial mech as a new player are LESS cbills, longer in a mech that is optimized for a different game, and maybe the great "experience" that comes from getting shredded by someone you had no hope of defeating in the first place. Oh I guess dying too soon is an "exploit" (LOLOLOL), so there is that.

The overall question everyone I've had play the game with me has asked is, how is any of this fun? As it stands for a new player, there isn't an answer to that. That entire interview with Russ just screams disconnect with the actual state of the game for new accounts. "No they're totally fine when you don't consider anything else about the game" is a ridiculous assessment.

[Purlana]

Socket7, on 03 December 2012 - 09:54 AM, said:

You mean the new player experience that is already part of the dev roadmap?

No, I don't think they've ever heard of that thing they're currently working on.

ಠ_ಠ

Then as we said, trial mechs are useless.

[QuantumButler]

renahzor, on 03 December 2012 - 09:57 AM, said:

Obviously you're far removed from the NPE at this point. No one learns jack from dying to a customized mech and better pilot, except that what they're using is inadequate. They can sustain more DPS, move faster, have more armor, continue shooting while I wait for heat to burn off, but yeah it's totally just me learning to play that will help.

The rewards for "playing well" in a trial mech as a new player are LESS cbills, longer in a mech that is optimized for a different game, and maybe the great "experience" that comes from getting shredded by someone you had no hope of defeating in the first place. Oh I guess dying too soon is an "exploit" (LOLOLOL), so there is that.

The overall question everyone I've had play the game with me has asked is, how is any of this fun? As it stands for a new player, there isn't an answer to that. That entire interview with Russ just screams disconnect with the actual state of the game for new accounts. "No they're totally fine when you don't consider anything else about the game" is a ridiculous assessment.

The answer to "how is that any fun?" Is simple really, quite simple.

"It's not"

[Socket7]

QuantumButler, on 03 December 2012 - 09:54 AM, said:

FF armor is complete junk and the fact you'd pick it over DHS shows you know nothing.

"Why yes I would like my armor to weigh 12% less, take up 14 critslots, and cost twice as much per ton to repair so I never make any money!"

You seem very angry over my playstyle. Why do you run dual heatsinks and still have heat issues, where I run expensive armor, still break even every match and don't overheat all that much, while still getting kills and wins?

Purlana, on 03 December 2012 - 09:59 AM, said:

Then as we said, trial mechs are useless.

If they had no weapons they'd be useless.

[QuantumButler]

Socket7, on 03 December 2012 - 10:02 AM, said:

You seem very angry over my playstyle. Why do you run dual heatsinks and still have heat issues, where I run expensive armor, still break even every match and don't overheat all that much, while still getting kills and wins?



If they had no weapons they'd be useless.

I don't have heat issues, but I'd like to use ER large lasers and PPCs, which isn't possible even with DHS currently, so those guns never get used.

[Purlana]

Socket7, on 03 December 2012 - 10:02 AM, said:

If they had no weapons they'd be useless.

They may as well mount no weapons, when I fight trial mechs their fire power tickles.

[QuantumButler]

Purlana, on 03 December 2012 - 10:04 AM, said:

They may as well mount no weapons, when I fight trial mechs their fire power tickles.

Let's start a petition to get all trial mechs to mount only machineguns.

[Socket7]

QuantumButler, on 03 December 2012 - 10:02 AM, said:

I don't have heat issues, but I'd like to use ER large lasers and PPCs, which isn't possible even with DHS currently, so those guns never get used.

So you can't build whatever you want. Therefore it's broken? I see ER's and PPCs all the time.

Edited by Socket7, 03 December 2012 - 10:07 AM.

[QuantumButler]

Socket7, on 03 December 2012 - 10:07 AM, said:

So you can't build whatever you want. Therefore it's broken? I see ER's and PPCs all the time.

It's broken because a bunch of weapons that are in the game can't be used, how do you not see this is a problem? Is your gold vision that blinding?

[Blark]

I can see those "arguments" keep coming up:

1) Trials are mostly run by noobs, thats why they seem to suck, its the pilot not the mech
2) They are not so bad, I made x-kills and x-assits in one!

My answers would be:

1) you're right, that they are mostly run by noobs, but that does not mean that they don't suck:
Serious heat issues which prevents them from producing any decent dps, lack of armor especially on the light trials makes them death traps, serious lack of ammo for the most part making them very ineffective.. and the list goes on and on and on..

2) Thats great for you! But you have to see things in perspective: If you are a good pilot in a bad mech you will still do well vs. bad or even terribad players; equally skilled pilots in real mechs will rip you apart in no time tough.
If your team is superior or your just lucky because the enemy team focuses on more threatening mechs, you might do well too, but that does not mean that the trial your in is any good compared to "normal" mechs.

ps: I find it sad that I perceive trial mechs as pretty much free kills and a liability to my team if they are on my side.
I mean I've seen some rather good pilots in trials; they were really trying, but in the end they stand no chance at all vs. pilots in "real" mechs, they simply cant perform nowhere near as good as equally skilled pilots, because their mech is simply inferior (and not only a little bit).

And thats the reason why I haven't recommended mwo to some people I usually play with, because I know that they would try the game first before they drop some money, but they would not have much fun in trials imo, so I wait until the game becomes a little more friendly for new players so I wont spoil their first impression which might drive them away.
Trials don't have to be as good as the best custom mechs, but they should at least show the player what that chassis could do.

[Lanessar]

Purlana, on 03 December 2012 - 10:04 AM, said:

They may as well mount no weapons, when I fight trial mechs their fire power tickles.

I'll match up with you in a trial sometime. I think what you're running into is 9/10 trial mech pilots just can't aim worth a darn, thus the problem. You can make trial mechs with 0 heat PPCs, and if they can't target another mech properly, nothing will help that.

I am honestly of the opinion that people who think trials are absolute garbage either a) Hasn't actually stuck with a trial mech and learned it or are victims of skilled players with custom load outs or c) piloted a "broken" trial build mounting multiple PPCs.

I'm not saying trials are efficient. But they aren't only 15% as efficient as customs. I'd say they were 60% as efficient as custom mechs. Still viable, but not desirable.

Matching skilled vs unskilled players makes all the difference in the world. Put me against a stock jenner with 5 games under his belt in my custom, and yes, I'm going to kill him so quickly that his head will spin, and he'll probably blame it on the custom load out.

Again, due to the broken heat system, this doesn't cover the trial AWS-9M or K-2. Those might be playable, but only within a very narrow parameter, and have no business running without a custom load out.

[Mavairo]

Trial mechs are good?

Seriously? Extremely good?

Good at dying maybe.

I remember some of the trial mechs. the Dragon in particular during it's wave was Decent. It wasn't great but it could at least do it's job. Most of the others during that time? Not so much. And from what I've seen of the current batch..yeah. Terribad Mechs.

Edited by Mavairo, 03 December 2012 - 10:15 AM.

[Shismar]

Stock mechs are o.k. Some of them could use a little less weapons or an extra heat sink. A training level would help players manage the machines.

Of course, a customized mech is better most of the time. If it is your own customized mech that is. Playing another players custom would most likely end in a disaster. I usually start my customizing with removing heat sinks ...

There are a number of factors that improve the stock mechs, not just the loadout. These are simply not available for new players. Most important, pilot trees and upgrades. Removing these factors means that there is no personal progress to the game anymore.

Later matchmaking states should remove the problem of new players in trials matched against very experienced players in custom mechs. Until then, nobody is forcing anyone to drop in a trial.

Edited by Shismar, 03 December 2012 - 10:15 AM.

[LaserAngel]

Socket7, on 03 December 2012 - 10:07 AM, said:

So you can't build whatever you want. Therefore it's broken? I see ER's and PPCs all the time.

http://mwomercs.com/...322-er-weapons/

http://mwomercs.com/...ppc-damage-bug/

http://mwomercs.com/...ange-has-to-go/

Well it's like a completely different game over here.

[renahzor]

Shismar, on 03 December 2012 - 10:14 AM, said:

Until then, nobody is forcing anyone to drop in a trial.

Um, what?

[QuantumButler]

renahzor, on 03 December 2012 - 10:21 AM, said:

Um, what?

He doesn't consider freeplaying scum without their own mech to be "anyone", obviously.